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Bob White gave a good overview of the different types of BSA training. Recommend you check out the Leadership Training booklet (#34169) from National that lists all the Nationally available courses. They update this about once a year. Personally, I feel there are only 3 'advanced' courses in the BSA: Wood Badge (leadership for ALL Scout leaders), Seabadge (advanced course for Sea Scout leaders), and Powder Horn (outdoor resources course for Venturing and Boy Scout leaders). One area of training that I think too many unit-level leaders overlook are the courses at the Philmont Training Center. There are several courses there aimed at unit-level leaders, not just district/council people. Also, keep an eye out for courses given at the Florida Sea Base. There are, of course, lot of courses available from outside sources. Be mindful that many of them are run by groups that need to make money off the courses, so the costs will be MUCH greater then with the BSA.

There is no OA Flag. There is an OA banner you can get from National Supply.

GW pointed out several issue with volunteering. I'm a volunteer leader/member of several orgs, including the BSA, and several times been frustrated by some of the things I see. I decided to vent this frustration in a series of 'articles' I put up on facebook. (no mention is made of any organization, and its worded such that you shouldn't be able to figure out what org I may be talking about.) In addition to some of the points of GW and others, there are 2 other things I've seen in the BSA that frustrate me. * overburdening of some volunteers (ie volunteers with multitude of positions) * turning away people who volunteer for specific positions. The first is usually refered to as 'how many hats do you wear'. For some reason, there are some volunteers who have a large number of positions they hold. I'm not sure that's a good thing. What is particularly frustrating is when I see a position open that too often its given to someone who already has 2-3 jobs instead of the person who will make it their only job. The second is an attitude I see too often in the BSA. The attitude is that if you specificaly seek out or make it clear you want a particular job, that that means you are automatically unqualified for the position and should not be given it.

Not aware of a softcopy of the form, but its located in the Venturing Leader Manual. Touch base with a Venturing Crew and see if you can get a photocopy of the form.

"My question is this, since they were dropped in 89 just as most people were just getting dial-up internet, has anyone ever seen requirment worksheets for skill awards that can be downloaded. I work with a number of Scoutreach troops, and I am hoping to use them as a rough guide for their programs." Never seen softcopies of the skill awards requirements, but would be easy to create. Just get a copy of the BS manuals of the times. There were also colorful skill awards booklets available as well (larger format, and thinner then merit badge pamphlets). I believe these are still available, just without the requirements, but you might need to look. These too would be useful for your purposes, I think.

To add to Beavah's list: aged out Eagle Scouts. National is making yet another attempt to gather current contact info for all living eagles. Your council office should be able to get from National a list of eagle scouts in their area. Put it to use. Also, see if you can get addressed from your council of former scouts and leaders. Another avenue may be any local town festival/fairs or the like that would allow a non-profit group, like the scouts, to have a booth. May be a way to connect (or re-connect) with potential volunteers.

Dry clean? Nope. Never. Just throw them in the washing machine. They look fine. I need to because I'll come back from a camping trip with smelly/sweaty clothes and need to have them clean for a meeting a day or two later. So I load up my washer on Sunday when I get home.

"We get told not to cannibalize existing unit volunteers and (as a victim of that cannibalization myself) I get that. But reality is, that's where you find people who are interested and willing to help!" Sorry, but this touches a personal nerve and really annoys me. I am not currently involved with a unit, and frankly haven't been for many years. (don't have the time). I have been struggling for years to be a council ONLY volunteer, and find myself passed over or ignored in favor of people who are unit volunteers &/or already have 2-3 positions. How stupid is that. There are people out there that are not currently tied to units who would like to volunteer at the district or council. Some might be parents. Some (like me) are former scouts that may like to get back in involved. But no one bothers to get those people. (for several years I dropped by a local council office and offered my assistance, even dropping off my business card. Despite promised that 'someone would contact me', I never was. Instead I was personally recruited by another volunteer who knew me and knew I was living in the area and knew he could use my help.)

AFAIK, the camping time for Camping MB could be all camping done from day one of being a scout. With some of the merit badges, you can't double dip. I seem to recall the Collections merit badge states that you can't use a stamp or coin collection, as there are separate merit badges for those.

"Wrinkle in the scenario above, the CO does not (to date) require membership in their church and has boys of the same faith as the CO from other churches. All else applies. What then?" Then I would definetly get a clarification, as Bob White has clearly set this out. Was there a chance in policy OR is the SM making a change in policy? I would ALSO wonder if the SM is claiming there is this policy due to the faith of this scout. I'd like to hope that is not a factor, but you will be surprised. (on that note, I came across some items on-line of scout councils or units in southern states who turned away muslims from being scouts because the 'BSA is only open to Christians' or some such nonsense. These people were, understandably upset, and tho this was some national policy when it wasn't. It was the action of people at the local level).

"The Venture Scout program lends itself to an incredible amount of flexibility. If the youth led Ventures vote to have tie-dyed shirts and specialize in bowling and movies, then so be it." Venture Scout program? Please. Its called the Venturing program. Please don't call it 'Venture Scout' or the like. "If they choose to be a crew who sails and SCUBAs and wear tie-died tee-shirts, then they should be registered as a crew." Well, while I can see where you are coming from, and agree with you to a point, the problem is that we have both SCUBA crews AND Scuba ships. The SCUBA crews I've seen pretty much follow how most crews operate, and the SCUBA ships DO follow the Sea Scout program, wear the uniform, etc. I know of Sea Scout ships who wear aloha shirts (with sea scout insignia) as their uniform. Problem is is that back in the 1960s, National themselves defined 3 types of Sea Scout Ships: Red, White, and Blue. (you might here references to 'Red Fleet', 'White Fleet', and 'Blue Fleet'). Blue ships were those that followed the traditional Sea Scout program, including advancement, traditional uniforms, etc. White ships were those that did do boat activites, but may not be into the full Sea Scout program, maybe not into the advancement program (hence the creation of the Smallboat Handler and Qualified Seaman bars), and maybe not into the full uniform. Red ships were those that did SOME kind of nautical activity, including stuff like SCUBA, water skiing, etc. These were more properly just Explorer Posts (this was back in the 60s-80s) that had a water-based theme of some kind. In my experience, most Sea Scout Ships today fall into the Blue and White category, and rarely include the Red (most of these are Venturing Crews). IMO, the general attitude in the Sea Scouting community is that the formal Sea Scout uniform is expected at National and most Regional events, and may or may not be used at the ship/council levels. I think with most ships (ie the youth) if you show them the uniforms, and their costs, they will usually adopt at least one of them for use by the ship.

Check out the Venturinglist on Yahoo Groups. We have several Venturing award ceremonies, including the Ranger Award, in the files area.

""more recent BSA materials have been steadily de-emphasizing Venture Patrols." "I was not aware of that. Which specific materials would that be?" Its gotten harder and harder to find information on Venture Patrols in current BSA literature. There used to be more in places like the SMHB and JLHB. Now there is very little, to the point that many leaders are ignorate of the program at all. Furthermore, about a year or two ago, they took away the Venture/Varsity Letter and pins from the Venture Patrol. If you check the current Insignia Guide its clear the letter and pins are ONLY for the Varsity Scout Team. I think I sent a letter to Scouter to clarify this, and they agreed: the letter and pins are for the Team only. I have heard rumors of National killing off the Venture Patrol for YEARS (I know the Venturing program would like to see this happen because of the confusion it causes). I've had some scouters claim they seen a letter from National saying the program has been dropped, tho I have yet to see it or see ANYTHING from National on the website, etc as to the current status of Venture Patrols.

"Venturing is not even mentioned." Venture Patrols have nothing to do with Venturing. Venture Patrols are optional patrols for older Boy Scouts 13 and up.

"Not sure if it is going to replace the Quality Unit Award, as it appears to be for use through 2010." It replaces it for the centennial period thru 2010. We'll see then what will be the next version of such awards, post-2010. We used to call them honor units before quality units.

"There is New Leader Essentials" I don't consider that as a Sea Scout course, as it's for all leaders. You comment made me think of training courses specially for Sea Scout leaders. "Venturing Leader Basic" Again, not specifically Sea Scout leader. "Sea Scout modified version of Venturing Leader Basic" I view that course as a combo of VLST and SSOST. But am not sure how official that is. IMO, if someone took it, it should count the same as having taken both VLST and SSOST. "Then there is the SALT course at Philmont" I forgot about SALT. However, they didn't have it last year nor this year, so AFAIK, its dead. Which I think unfortunate.

" "Keep in mind that Sea Scout Officers Specialized Training is a 3 hour course to cover the basics of Sea Scouting "No, it is not. I have the SSOST syllabus in front on me and it clearly states that it's purpose is to familiarize the participant with the contents of the Sea Scout Manual." Covering the contents of the SSM kind of covers the basics of Sea Scouting... The syllabus I've seen has the following for the course: * Ship organization and leadership (who does what, basically) * Quarterdeck meetings (what would be called PLCs in a troop) * Ship Meetings and activities * Advancement * Uniforms I'd call that the basics. And since you only have 3-5 hours to cover all this, can't really get into depth. (around here they zip thru it all in about 3 hours). "Having attended and taught the other Sea Scout training courses leading up to Seabadge" What other 'Sea Scout training courses'? There is only SSOST. There are no other courses, at least for adults. No idea in your area, but in my region we really got into stuff we couldn't get into in SSOST, like the issue of boat ownership and the like.

AFAIK, our 2010 National Jamboree will have international contingents. Frankly, I have no idea how that is handled. I would think you will need to contact YOUR National Office. I believe the BSA communications information on international contingents to their counterparts in other countries, who then deciminate the information to their people. Most of the people in this list are people who are either going to be BSA staff members or involved with BSA council contigents, and will probably not know too much. Considering that the BSA is going to be starting to take on-line applications in the summer, I would think they will most likely be sending out info to other countries around the same time.

The problem is the confusion on where the World Conservation Award continues to this day, long after they allowed everyone to wear the World Crest. Heck, I recall asking a group of scouts several years back why they were wearing the WCA in the wrong place, and they claimed their scoutmaster told them it went there because he was told that was the 'new location' for it.

Sigh. Keep in mind that Sea Scout Officers Specialized Training is a 3 hour course to cover the basics of Sea Scouting, and as an add-on to the 5 hour Venturing Leader Specific Training. So, can't really get too deeply into the program. So they cover the basics of how a ship is run, the sea scout uniform, advancement program, etc. The Seabadge Conference really gets into the adminstration of the Sea Scout program. Yes, there is SOME leadership, but not to the extent you get in Wood Badge. BUT, Seabadge gets into more advanced/indept areas of running a Ship. FWIW, I've been to Seabadge. If you are a Sea Scout leader, you really MUST attend one. If you are a Venturing leader that wants to really learn more about Sea Scouting, consider going (some regions allow this). I know of a few Venturing leaders who attending Seabadge and really got into Sea Scout because of it.

I'll add to this. I'm not giving anything away. Most lodges have their own ceremony ring. Some may be in a location that is used by other groups, some in the place that makes it really only usable by the lodge. My home lodge built a ceremony ring that is inspired by southeastern tribes. This means a round ceremony ring with no grass, and four ceremonial shelters at the cardinal points, each with benches. Costumes also can make a ceremony most impression. Some lodges do a good job of research and creating authentic outfits from the local tribes. Others...do not. Most lodges in my state use Seminole outfits, usually circa 1830s, and much research has been done by scouters and re-enactors such that no lodge has an excuse for having bad outfits. Music. I've really only seen (heard?) this done once, when we played the soundtrack to "Dances with Wolves" over and over for a Vigil tap out. It made it the most impressive tap out I had been at. (sadly, not my own).

It's no different then any other active military personnel visiting a scout unit. Are you suggesting that military personnel are unwell at scouting events while in military uniform?

"But my point is the functionality of the pants. I just find it easier to have access into the larger pockets. "WIth all the other things going on in my life and financial obligations, I cannot see getting another pair of pants right now especially with the rising cost of the uniforms." Ok. Let me add this. If you were to obtain and wear olive drab pants that look pretty close to the ones the BSA wears, I think most won't get too upset. If, however, you were to obtain CAMO pants to wear, that's different, and most would not like it.

Right pocket. Anyone telling you it goes somewhere else is mistaken. It most certainly does NOT get worn above the left pocket (that's for the World Crest, a different patch). Your source for where things go on the uniform is a booklet called "Insignia Guide", which may be purchased at your local scout shop (at your council office). (of course, nothing is stoping you from just browsing thru it to find that answer). Also, he shouldn't plan on moving it over to his Boy Scout uniform after he crosses over. There is another World Conservation Award he may earn as a Boy Scout and wear on his uniform. It, too, is worn on the right pocket.

"NewCrewTwo"- Have your Venturers gone thru VLSC (Venturing Leadership Skills Course)? Some things to keep in mind with Kodiak. Kodiak is designed to be an add-on to a week-long (ideally) or two-weekend trip/activity. It has been done as part of week-long Venturing camps, so long as you are mindful of how Kodiak is to be presented (ie, its NOT presented in a classroom setting with powerpoint or flipcharts). Kodiak 'sessions' take up about 2 hours total per day. You really really really want whoever runs your Kodiak course and prepares the training staff have themselves either gone to a Kodiak Course Director Course (these are given at the Regional level, and am now seeing this done by some councils) OR have participated on a Kodiak course themselves. I do NOT recommend just picking up the syllabus and trying to present it without this experience. There is a Kodiak website: http://www.kodiak-bsa.org/ as well as a discussion forum on Yahoo Groups.