Eagledad

I'm sure you will get the answers to your question. But, you come off to most of us as having little understanding or experience with patrol method. How much do you have? Our discussion with your depends on your knowledge and experience. Barry

Many Scoutmasters too. Been there and done that. So many reasons why Scoutmaster's don't get much sleep. Barry

After watching my three adult kids with their families, I can say with confidence that you are setting up your son for a wonderful life. Well done. Barry

Have you considered taking your son on a camping trip without uniforms? Our best Webelos campout was the one we organized ourselves at a state park. Granted, it took a lot of planning to provide food and activities for 15 scouts and their parents for 5 days, but those now 30 year old adults tell me that was some of their best cub scouting memories. Well, if it's just the two of you, that would be easy trip to plan. Barry

They have not. And I have never heard of them shirking away from their promise. But, they will ask that the victim to use their personal insurance first. I did carry additional insurance when I was a SM because two parents threatened me with law suits. It just seemed like a good idea at the time. The parents backed off when they heard both sides of their son's story. If that is how parents react to youth organization volunteers, I can't imagine what my high school teacher kids hear from their parents. Barry

I read Walk in the woods post as sarcasm, but maybe he is looking for a glass quarter full. Still, I wonder if there is an opportunity here to bring honor back to OA by rehighlighting the camping and cheerful service of the program. Personally, I would push the minimum membership requirements back up to 13, maybe even 14 years of age to give scouts the time to develop the skills for an honor program. Then, try and wedge some of the mystery of the organization by restricting membership with higher minimal camping skills, cheerful service, and Living the Scout Oath and Law. Membership would be far from automatic for older scouts. Applicants would require resumes and witnesses. You would see fewer scouts with OA patches and sashes, but they would have the same respect of an Eagle. Such a radical application of scouting would be a challenge in the new Helicopter Family Scouting Program, but if it's done correctly and controlled with tradition, there might be something there. Barry

Yes, I agree. Traditions carry over the original idealism that fuels passion. Hopefully, you can keep giving them that passion. Barry

I mean you know disrespect all Oldscout, but your post represents how OA has been minimalized to irrelevance in the modern scouting program. Used to, Arrowmen were the heavy lifters, not entertainers. Oh sure, they performed ceremonies, but they were also the goto resource for clearing and cleaning up camps, clearing old trails and blazing new trails. They were brought in as experts for council camping activities and leaders of council outdoor activities. If you needed scout activities experts for large gatherings, you called OA. Their outdoor expertise was only marginally less than their reputation for cheerful service. Cheerul service is diving in without question or complaint. Nobody represented the actions of the Oath and Law better than an Arrowmen. They were in general the quiet voices in the shadows gently guiding young scouts in the direction of a scouting idealism. Ironically for me, I always envisioned Arrowmen with the same hero respect of Mohicans in the book, Last of the Mohicans. Barry

It might only bring the inevitable closer, but OA was already dying from over protection and cultural activism. OA is about Service and Outdoors, not pack ceremonies. The organization lost it's soul when leaders turned it from an honor organization into a first year camping prize. Arrowmen were super scouts back in my day and I'm lucky to always have the memory. I hate to see it go, but to me its just a logical step toward the New Family Scouting program. Barry

Ahh! thanks

Why isn't the ASM confronting the Scoutmaster/parent? Or, confronting the outgoing Scoutmaster/parent and incoming Scoutmaster? They need to know what is going on so they don't appear to be last, and so they can get on top of it. This may be a simple misunderstanding, but it needs quick and direct attention because the "bullying" word is being thrown freely around. At the very least it's housekeeping. At the very most change is required. Someone already mentioned it, but the troop needs develop a culture of openess. That means the scouts need to feel encouraged and safe to stop other scouts, and adults from bad decisions. The hard part here is the two main leaders happen to be directly or indirectly involved. That creates a difficult system of accountability at the top level. If the scouts can't trust their SPL, they typically go to the SM. But in this case.............. Barry

You may be surprised to learn that your son is average. Boys his age want adventure. They would rather not waste time with the boring administrative stuff. I'm not sure what advice to suggest because a lot depends on his program and how they value advancement in the program. We don't push our scouts either, but we do try to guide the to some small responsibilities where they have to set small goals and make plans to reach those goals. Our approach is for the scout develop habits that will lead him later to work his advancement at his pace. I would not worry about it for another few months because he is having fun. The only reason I would have any concern is we want the scouts to learn the skills of surviving in the woods. But you said he seems to be doing the requirements, he just hasn't done he boring admin stuff. Let him have his fun and see how it goes. See how the troop handles it, or if they handle it. And when you are tempted to ask about it, ask him about what he is learning instead of going directly to rank. He might be more excited to talk about that, and you can measure if he is growing in the program. Trust me, he has plenty of time to catch up. Keeping him in the program because he likes it is a lot more important at this stage of his troop experience. Has he set up his tent on a dark rainy night? That is pretty cool stuff. Barry

I came from the sand lot generation. I played sand lot baseball, football, Street hockey kickball. No parents or adult coaches, just us. The only thing our kids know about sand lot is the movie. Barry

Soccer is just one symptom of the larger situation that all the little league sports are seeing a decrease. My opinion is the parents are burning out from keeping their kids active. The kids are still getting involved in activities, but not several activities. Not that parents arent part of the problem, they are. I was a soccer coach for several years and being confronted by parents was scary as were opposing coaches. At least the team benches were across the field from each other, baseball is down right scary because the parents of both teams sit together. Like scouting, parents struggle to approach their kids involvement in sports from a youth development perspective because it isn’t presented that way. The only goal they understand is winning. Their sons are dragged along with their emotional ride. Barry

I don’t know what handgun my son uses, it has a lot of custom work done to it. But he shoots a tight grouping at 100 yards with hand loads also. I can hardly see the target at 100 yards, much less hit it with a iron sighted hand gun.😱 Barry

I was wondering, I have a friend who was talking about hunting moose with a handgun. I thought he said Maine, but I might be remembering wrong. 22 caliber can be more dangerous than larger calibers because they tend to bounce and ricochet, especially when shooting near body’s of water. Barry

Are sure about that? 22 and 223 calibers aren’t allowed here for large game because they aren’t large enough for a 1 shot kill. Rabbits and squirrels are ok. That is one reason why the AR15 is not a common hunting rifle, at least in our state. Barry

As you communicate with these people, keep in mind, excepting for the DE, everyone else are volunteers. Their backgrounds can be anything from truck driving to a Fortune 500 CEO. I wouldn’t expect experts in their scouting responsibilities. Barry

I’ve seen a lot, but I’ve not heard of this before. As others have said, your son is an Eagle and the ECOH is not part of the advancement process, which has been completed. The Troop, District, and Council have completed their official part in the process. From here forward, it’s personal. Yes, even the BSA says there should be a celebration and recognition, but that’s just a traditionally recognized formality, kind of like taking off the or putting the hand over the heart during the National Anthem. Nobody is obligated to give your family a ECOH. But, I’ve never heard of an Eagle being told the unit would skip their part of of the ceremony. I Only say this so you can approach the situation from a perspective that it’s personal . Is it wrong? I think so and I, as a parent, would be offended and angry. It’s not about the ECOH, it’s about disrespect directed at the whole family. ECOH are typically family events, as important as weddings for some families. NYCscouter has good instructions for proceeding, I would personally contact the CC to find out what is going on. I might even ask the DE (district executive) and DC (district commissioner) to stand with me as I ask the question. Keep in mind this may all be a misunderstanding, so always keep your composure, but something seems amiss from how it’s been communicated up to this point. Barry

Well, I am a can-do kind of guy, so no-way doesn't work for me. Barry

Feelings of the volunteers aren't false. The way National implements most of their policy changes lately is dragging their membership behind them and letting them deal with the fallout without support. Now that isn't all the time, National did a pretty good job of introducing their new leadership training back in 2000. They prepared the Council professionals of the new changes so that they could support the districts and units. Folks were still annoyed by some of the changes, but at least everyone felt they were in it together. I would like to give National some credit and even some benefit of the doubt, but it irks me that volunteers have no path of holding National accountable for their management. It's pretty much of a just sit and wait to see what will happen next type of relationship. Barry

Unless things have changed recently, my experience is National doesn't sluff off liability if the unit didn't follow policy. Barry

I don't know Calico, you didn't score any points on National hiding in the bushes looking to catch volunteers breaking policy. National isn't held accountable by anybody accept National. Criticism is warranted if for nothing else than balance. Barry

Another thought is educate the Scouts the benefits of changing the “non-cotton” socks before the troop leaves for camp and let them learn from their decisions. They will figure it out and the adults don’t get accused of hovering. I’m always amazing of how little scouts require to be comfortable compared to adults. Because I’m a skin cancer survivor, I did warn our scouts on every camp out that I would nag them about one thing, sunscreen.

I have a couple of questions that I'm not sure anyone on the forum can answer, when did women start taking positions at policy making level of National and how many are there now? Barry