Eagledad

>>Don't really care what the Bible says, since it's not my religious book. "Because the Bible says so" is not a persuasive argument to me.

This is a great discussion and everyones contribution is thought provoking. I teach leadership more under Johns definition of a leader inspires and influences people to accomplish team (organizational) goals. Im not sure that creators of vision are always great leaders. But I do believe great leaders have to believe in the vision to do their job well. I also agree with Stosh that the best leaders are true servants of the team. I do not believe that the leader must have the same skills of the rest of the group, but instead needs the skills for inspiring and influeincing. I also like the d

Ah the memories. Those are good times looking back. Hey, at least he is open to advise. My daughter is so much smarter than me that she would be telling me how I don't have a clue. However, I've seen her in action, she will make a square peg fit in a round hole if it kills her. Heaven help those 20 guys that worked at the same time because they WOULD get the job done. I pray for her husband (whoever it will be) everyday. Barry

>>What happened with Canadian scouting and CampFire was not about religion but more about a lack of vision and incompetent management internally.

I'm a little surprised by the negative comments. Maybe its because I have been involved with a similar situations while on the district commitee, but I dont see any evil intent here or some nut wanting to stir the pot. The correct answer is simple, contact the CC and work together with the COR. If there is some disingenuousness motivation here, it will likely get filtered during that process. Council doesnt just casually watch these things happen. Barry

>>You got to be kidding, outside of the LDS church no religious group provides large financial support to the BSA.

Personally I like Spring Webelos Woods better because it gives the Webelos I leaders a chance to see the troops they want to visit next fall. I found that most Webelos IIs dens have already set up their agenda by the time the get to a Fall Webelos Woods. Also, we try to do a little bit of training for the Webelos leaders, which include the Bear leaders, so I think at least the Bear leaders should come. One other thing I think is important is I found when I was on district that Webelos leaders struggle to visit troops because they either don't know who to visit or feel to intimidated. So invite

You guys quibble over words that are thousands of years old. They didn't loose there intended meaning then, and they don't now. Our culture may degrade into morale depravity at this time in history, but the bible will remain the same to those who read and follow it to the end of time. Most Christians who really struggle with the text either don't study the bible or are motivated politically. Also the bible supports what it does say about the lifestyle with what it doesn't say. Like; two mommy families or two daddy families. Barry

>>How is that done in your troop or is there no effort on the part of the adults to do so because things are going smoothly with the adults running the show?

I guess I dont understand the question. It appears that we are given the choice of the two extremes when just about all troops work somewhere in the middle. Surely even that adults gets some time to learn from the experience as well. I enjoyed your post Mafaking. There was a time that I sure could sure relate to it. Barry

>>Just to be clear: I don't CARE what the bible says about homosexuality any more than I care what it says about shellfish. It is completely and totally irrelevant and any attempt to argue from it as an authority is vacuous.

Interesting discussion: As I grew with our program, my vision of developing character was always the same, but my methods of Scoutmastering changed. While I trusted at the beginning with the concept that scouting is a game with a purpose, my experience confirmed that scouting REALLY IS a game with a purpose. The game is the easy part because boys by nature will strive for adventure where ever they are. The purpose is the hard part. Maybe Im more anal about developing character than most, but my nature is also measuring performance and making changes to improve. I will say I failed a lot,

>>Eagledad said that they tried the letter writing method. I think that would be good for one group of older scouts, but for my tigers that would not work. They may be too young and it would possibly take too long to complette the task.

>>Would 4H use push-ups? Debate club? Science club? Student forum? Do public schools? No!

Beav, your troop sounds so much the troop you visited when I was SM. May I suggest you throw in the idea that your scouts learn how to camp light. We went this way to get rid of one of our trailers. Everyone just needs to start using back packing gear. It sounds like something the scouts would hate, but in reality the scouts loved it and the adults hated it. In fact, the adults still brought a lot of gear. As for new parents, I wanted them to come to the first campout because it use that whole weekend to show them a boy run program. No mistery, this is what your son will do every campout.

>>If you make a scout sit-out an activity as a form of punishemnt, are you not embarrassing them? You are denying them the opportunity to participate.

>>And don't talk about Obama and the Democrats. This was all done under the Bush Corporate Welfare Program. As Beavah noted. Obama's just stuck cleaning up the mess.

>>You are aware that Japanese auto manufacturers get lots of support from their government don't you? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face

>>I love my Suburban. It's great for scout outings and my business. But I'm not sure I'll ever buy another one, because I don't want to subsidize the UAW.

Some parents just need to feel safe with the troop and if the adults at least look organized, that helps. But that is subjective. I have always felt our adults are organized, but since our program is boy led, some parents see our adults talking in a different room from the scouts as disorganized. What I found that concerned parents really want is some feeling that the troop has some kind of plan. Boy run is great on the play ground so long as the adults are watching, but what does it mean when if the adults go take a smoke break, so to speak. As been said already, parents dont understand

Beavaher is right, have the scouts start attending the Troop as if they belong in the Troop. We did this a lot and it is no big deal. Do not have them fill out a troop application because if it some how gets turned in, the scout will not get his AOL. In fact I would kindly ask the pack turn in all the scouts paperwork as soon as possible to prevent any confusion. Typically they wait until the Ceremony, but you might offer to help. If you can tell, I've had to help clean up a lot messes in this area. Barry

OK, I'm not savy on this subject, what is twitter? Barry

>>One complaint I get on this is that, with two SPL's a year only one of them gets to plan a Calendar, the other one only gets to carry out the other ones agenda - That MAY be why your Troop does it the way they do.?

>>In my eyes, this is nuts. The PLC has decided to plan a campout to recruit Webelos in October, but the Troop will not even be able to provide the new scouts & parents with a calendar of upcoming events, because the calendar has not even been planed.

Its not a YP problem, but my son is a school teacher and they are instructed to not be a friend or have a friend with any students. I'm not sure why. I do know that Facebook has legal rights (or something like that) to everything put on Facebook pages. Barry