Eagledad

>>I know we have discussed it before, but I still want to find ways to empower these scouts to make their own decisions and give them a real sense of ownership in the troop.

>>As for the Scouts in SMT224's Troop, I don't know. They didn't learn that when you make a mistake, you should admit it and try to make things right. They didn't learn that when someone is gracious to you, you should find some way to thank them. I'm afraid they learned that a hard-nosed, stiff-necked attitude will get you what you want, even if it isn't rightfully yours.

Character isn't how one contends with the expected; character is how one contends with the unexpected. I would say your scouts just witnessed great character from the troop's adults. They will take that lesson with them forever. Barry

I would do some research on the subject first. Bullying is a power thing typically at "weaker" victims who can't fight back. I'm told by those who know that it is more common with kids who are bullied in their own life, usually parents of family. That certainly was the case in the few instances I witnessed. How do you change someone who lives in that environment everyday. I've also seen a different kind of bully in a troop program who were not known bullies at school. Those bullies where influenced by adult leaders (parents) in the troop who didn't like certain boys and were very expressi

I have a lot of good stories of the advantages of wearing a uniform while traveling, but it is also the only adult forced rule while I was the SM. Not that it had to be, most of the boys agreed. We created the rule when I once stopped at a rest stop. They were my scouts, but I saw a very nervous store clerk watch 25 church kids running around in out of the store grabbing snacks and so on. I jokenly said something about it to the clerk and he said the hardest part is not knowing which adults belong to those kids. I realized that store clerks are a lot less nervous when they can identify the adu

Let me start by asking the question of why we dont ask the question of adults getting tired of working with younger scouts? What do the adults do different? Then I would like to propose that older scouts are adults, not boys. I will also point out that a 12 year old boy is a really different person from a 14 or 15 year old man. If the adults are treating the 15 year olds with the same aspect of the 12 year olds, there is going to be problems. I think the BSA attempted to attack the problem with Venture Patrols, but that doesnt help at all because the takes the older scouts away fro

Well I read the post as a little humble bragging. And rightfully so, you worked very hard to pull the troop up to this place. Weve all seen your blood, sweat and tears as the forces seem to work against you even when you knew you were doing it right. Oh, I know you questioned yourself now and then, but you had it pretty much right all along. I think the boys feel it too, and they dont want to lose that ground they worked so hard to get. But like the adults, the scouts will find out that growth is more about learning from the failures than celebrating the gains. Still, even with all that

I was responding to CalicoPenn's statement about being raised by scientific parents. Barry

>>So I was hoping that there was something more to the concept. Perhaps someone can elaborate?

Prayer is positive thinking. Beary

>> There is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no divine intervention. Storms are just storms, floods are just floods, fires just fires, god has nothing to do with anything that happens. I gave been immeasurably happy since I realized this.

You will get a good jump start by getting the scouts the SPL Handbook and the Patrol Leader handbook. Those books are pretty good, but you need to get them and read them as well so that you aren't guiding in conflect of the books. In fact, I think you can almost tell them to go by the book and they won't need much help at first. Most of the answers for the boy running a basic program are in those two books. Typically its the adults who don't read the books that get in the way. Barry

>>Two years latter, we still suffer from the bad reputation we earned, it's tough to overcome something like that.

>>>>I've got 14 years of unit leader experience,

Some folks just cant get past their own world to see the big picture. There is a lot more room for different ideas and methods than just their one size fits all type of scouting. Or maybe they just dont have good personal skills, who knows? Still, you have to be somewhat picky on the suggestions you choose because Ive done this long enough to recognize that some folks style of forcing scouts to be boy run is not the same as guiding them to grow boy run. I personally think you are doing a pretty good job Eagle732 and both the parents and scouts should be proud to have you as their troop ad

>>My personal un-pc view is that our public school system discourages independance, out of box thinking and initiative, so that's reflected in their scouting activities.

This is a very good question and since I dont have the talent of many folks here to be short about and answer, I will throw in just a few comments and go from there. I do like what jblake has written. As a SM, I personally had a lot of goals. But if you added them up in one bag, It would be that I developed the scouts so that if the adults didnt show up to a meeting or campout, the scouts would behave the same. I was trying to put the adults out of a job. As for the boys, we taught them to set goals from the day they came in. When they were learning scout skills, we ask them to set a

I think being out of the room was fine, but it is important to know what was going on. In fact, being out of the room lets the scouts act in the way they think is appropriate and allows you to see what needs fixing. Your goal is teach them the skills so that the meeting would run no different if you didn't show up that day. You are teaching independence. In my world, the boys do nothing wrong, they just dont know how to do it right yet. So we train them. Also, never give a boy more than they can handle in the next meeting. In other words, dont give a one hour lecture on how to run meetin

I meant your goals. Boys are in the troop for the adventure. Adults are in it to help boys become men of character. You cant get out of a rut if you dont know where you are going. For example: The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. The BSA wants ever part of the troop program to contribute to that Mission. Does your troop program do that? Here is the thing, if you dont have a goal, how do you measure if you are making progress. The B

Have you camped with the troop? For that matter, have you watched a troop meeting? I'm courious why the troop is asking someone that isn't a member of the troop to take over the leadership. Barry

Turning the troop into a backpacking troop is a wonderful way to turn the program into a self-reliance teaching program. I once had a mother donate money to our troop when she realized how well the program worked. Her 18 year old son (not a scout) went to his 14 year old scout brother to learn how to stay dry on the forcasted wet church campout he was about to go on. It was a little thing, but it made a huge impression on her because it was the first time she realized that her son would be OK if left out in the woods by himself. Something most moms fear I guess. Barry

Not bad really, I think you are getting there. But what are your goals? The troop of today shouldn't look like the troop of tomorrow because Scouting is about boys growing into men of character. Boy Run has a purpose in boy growth, if boys are growing, then they are changing which is probably why your COR doesn't like it. Likely nobody has explained it to him in that way. This isn't Cub Scouts, the Troop is the real world scaled down to a boys size. What do you want the 17 year old man in your troop to look like? Folks will not understand a program when they don't see the vision. Barry

Through my years of working with boys, I have witnessed that the adults the scouts respect the most in the area of a relationship with God are adults who role model a moral lifestyle without really exposing their own personal religion. I have seen grown up scouts confess this to those adults later in their life. Its more of an adult problem than a scout problem. An adult who thinks there is hypocrisy in scouting is an automatic red flag that they are not likely a good advisor in this regard. If one adults response is judgmental and sets the boy in one direction, it takes away from his ab

The Last Frontier Council has just such a course unless it has changed in the last couple years. It is a two weekend course of outdoor skills where the participants are working out of their pack during the whole course. I can't remember what its called and I have not attended it because I was a little busy at the time for that much additional outdoor training (I was camping 70 days a year at the time). It is considered a very advanced elite outdoor skills course. The instructors are all very experienced and passionate with sticking with a strict syllabus. I never heard anything but rave

I would suggest you Not break up the two patrols because you would in a sense be starting over. Its hard enough developing patrol bonding without breaking them up every time the troop becomes imbalanced. Instead you use the existing patrols as a resource for future new patrols. This is the one time that I would use the NSP. I have experienced this very scenario a few times and learned the hard way from the experience. You will be a lot farther a head with the first two patrol staying together and growing stronger. I think you need at least three NSP with 20 scouts to be manageable.