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Showing content with the highest reputation on 07/17/20 in all areas

  1. 3 points
    Why should anyone who was a youth in prior to 1989 (Say 1981-87) have any liability at all! Why punish them with liability?
  2. 2 points
    As camp counselors have asked my scouts for a note from their SM confirming that the did x,y, or z prerequisite, I have developed the following template: To whom it my concern, —— is a scout. A scout is trustworthy. Therefore, you may take ——‘s retelling of exploits pertinent to requirements for the badge that you are counseling as fact. My signature is most assuredly superfluous. Sincerly, qwazse
  3. 2 points
    Part of the problem is this: those people are not being sued. This is a suit against the corporate entity called Boy Scouts of America. If this was a lawsuit/bankruptcy against say XYZ Corp. that makes widgets, the people who lose out there are shareholders and other unsecured creditors. If the widgets were defective or harmed people, the worst case scenario is XYZ Corp goes bankrupt, the shareholders and unsecured creditors are up a creek without a paddle, and the secured and other creditors get to pick at the carcass. The CEO and other executives of XYZ corp would have no personal liability, and neither would be other people who bought XYZ Corp widgets. This is the problem with trying to keep a charity/not-for-profit running post bankruptcy. If the organization does good, the court is NOT going to want to outright kill it. But the fact is that Boy Scouts of America is an incorporated entity, which means that it "owns" the liability, especially since states repealed, relaxed, or opened up their statute of limitations on abuse.
  4. 2 points
    . . . .or at least TRY to do . . .
  5. 2 points
    If true, and I think you may be right, then plaintiffs lawyers are back to plan #1: take 10 cents on the dollar today. I still believe in the end National limps away from this and is not liquidated but is simply a shadow of itself with minimal staffing and barely any real support. Everything shifts to the Councils which creates a whole other mess but that's another story.
  6. 2 points
    Yes, if push comes to shove the judge can convert but not simply because the settlement is too low but because the payments aren't being made OR because the debtor is acting in bad faith OR in the "best interests of creditors and the estate." 11 U.S. Code § 1112. Conversion or dismissal EDIT: Additional reasons for (forced) conversion of a Chapter 11 to a Chapter 7. In re Costa Bonita Beach Resort, 513 B.R. 184, 200-01 (Bankr. D.P.R. 2014) (quoting Alan N. Resnick & Henry J. Sommer, 7 Collier on Bankruptcy ¶1112.04[7] (16th ed. 2011))
  7. 2 points
    FYI; the National Sea Scout Commodore posted this today. Hello all - I wanted to give you an update on what I know about the Churchill proposal progress. I am told that the National Key 3 are preparing a statement that will list all of the Churchill proposals along with a description of the process going forward. That will be going out on Scouting Wire, and probably in Bryan on Scouting, so keep an eye there, but we'll post a link here as soon as we see it. That was supposed to have gone out earlier this week, but consensus is hard and is taking some time to get right. Hopefully we will still see it this week - that should at least give us authoritative information on what's going on and how to interact with the process. Meanwhile, I want to thank all of you for speaking up with the petition, your letters to Scout Executives, board members and everyone. We have completely dispelled any notion that nobody cares about Sea Scouts. You have all been loud and prolific in your responses and it has gotten a lot of attention. I am especially proud of our youth members. Many of them have taken the time to speak from the heart about what this program means to them - I have found their stories inspiring and it has certainly renewed my resolve to do all I can to fight for the continuation of Sea Scouts as we know it. And I know from comments I have heard from all levels in Scouting that their voices are being heard. Please keep the stories coming - ultimately we really are a youth movement, and these eloquent voices from our Sea Scouts mean more than anything I could say. We will continue to keep you posted with whatever we find out.
  8. 2 points
    We are in the midst of our own "self" summer camp right now. Running merit badge classes and typical summer camp foolishness. No shooting sports but many other things
  9. 1 point
    And here comes the backpedaling. And a survey (in which they do not allow you to offer new ideas, just want you to approve theirs).
  10. 1 point
    Which will mean whatever they want it to mean. It never made sense to have youth and adults overlap in the program as participants, but here we are, so now they need to create a reasonable transition period where current 18-20 year old who have been promised positions can fulfill those, while providing a worthwhile path for current youth to transition into meaningful adult roles. Becoming an ASM at 18 was one of the best decisions I've ever made. It helped me develop my own leadership skills and decision making more than my undergraduate degree. The transition was challenging, and there was absolutely no guidance from national on how to make that work other than follow YPT, which is obvious. I was lucky my Troops adult leadership were open minded and desperately in need of somebody who understood the program. With the changes the BSA has made to require adults to be 21 to count for two deep leadership, I don't see much of a necessary role for an 18-20 year old to play in a Troop. Unless the Troop creates space for those young adults to volunteer and has clear vision for how the strengths and weaknesses of a typical 18-20 year old fit into their corps of adult volunteers. Most troops struggle to even figure out how to get the youth leaders to lead, let alone mix in a college age adult volunteers.
  11. 1 point
    https://scoutingwire.org/understanding-the-churchill-plan-and-what-it-means-for-scouting/# July 17, 2020 In 2019, the National Executive Committee (NEC) of the BSA asked six teams of volunteers and professionals from the local, area, regional and national level – including current or recent youth members and subject-matter experts – to develop plans on how to optimize the BSA for success in key areas based on input provided by more than 1,100 local, area, region and national volunteers and professionals, including: Youth Safety: How do we keep young people safe? Program: Are the BSA programs aligned with today’s young people? Communications and Marketing: How can National Council improve communication with stakeholders? Organizational Structure: Do we have the most effective organizational structure? National Council Effectiveness: Are there changes that would make the National Council more effective? Financial Health: How do we build a solid financial path forward? [Rest of article at link above.]
  12. 1 point
    I happened to have a discussion in the backyard of the commodore the day after the leaked document went live. It is a real document but it is only accepted as received. That is where the confusion is I think. They had already started the formation of a couple of committees at the national level to discuss all the options. So this isn't a backpedal just a communications problem. He stated that someone at National really botched the communication. You are counting only the primary units for the scouts. There are more Sea Scouts than 2000, but it is the lowest number for sure. Sea Scouts were part of exploring for years with advancement still happening, so that while a surprise doesn't seem to really be a blocking issue. I wasn't aware of that history and what changes that means. I am less worried about that part now. The 18+ rule is the hardest pill to swallow. Many of the Sea Scouts and Venturers turn 18 before leaving or even starting their senior year in high school. This is a huge part of their life and that is ripped away from them. Most of the VOA leadership and Sea Scout leadership comes from the 18+ scouts. Then there are those that want to reach the ranks/awards of Summit and Quartermaster. Very hard to do before 18. IMHO, much harder than attaining Eagle.
  13. 1 point
    My personal thoughts: National is short the funds to make down payments when they sign the various contracts, and their bankruptcy masters refused to allow them to draw on debt. I think Irving is hiding this reason from its customer base Covid is a concern. We are talking about a small city, and that city would lack the spacing even an ordinary apartment provides. You’d need 4x the tent age for staff alone. Finally, not every vendor has a cancellation clause, indeed some have forfeiture clauses.
  14. 1 point
    The leaked document I found on reddit was shown to all BSA staff was released as a definitive document. Not a draft. Now with all the pushback, they are having to backpedal and get their story straight. This does not inspire confidence.
  15. 1 point
    Someone made one mistake and it was pulled down. That doesn't sound like much of a trend to worry about. However, if they had, for example, lied 20000 times in 4 years, then you'd have something to talk about.
  16. 1 point
    can someone explain to me how BSA would have lost $2.8m on WSJ? This isnt sarcasm, I'd really like someone more knowledgeable to theorize or speculate on this for me. We went for the day, it was nice. I didnt see anything I would call lavish. They already have the land and unpaid volunteers. Every attendee paid a lot to be there. Not enough attendance to meet estimated goals? Wasnt it bigger than previous WSJs? Anyone know of unplanned expenses BSA encountered such as security or something?
  17. 1 point
    We had a small group of scouts attend Camp Rainey Mountain in Northeast Georgia Council. Everyone was required to take a Covid test prior to attending, so we knew that at least a week prior to camp everyone in attendance was ok. That could have changed with someone being infected after testing, but it appeared that everything went well in that regard, on one sent home during the week after becoming ill or not being cleared during twice a day temperature checks. There were things that were either modified or deleted from the program, such as shutting down ga-ga ball (although I am sure that the scouts would have all maintained social distancing in the pit 😁), no blob at the waterfront, no mile swim, area campfires with only a couple of units, no sharing of campsites (we had more than enough tents for individual tenting). Programming was modified to only offer 4 blocks of instruction during the day, and there were things that were not offered that are usually available, but the scouts went from program area to program area pretty much the same as always. Dining hall seemed to be normal operation, other than splitting into shifts to keep numbers low. It looked to me as if we had maybe 30% capacity during meals. Staff was tested weekly, and wore masks at all times when out of the staff area. We were told on Friday that they had a couple of asymptomatic positive tests last week, who were isolated and then sent to the health department for retesting (they have evidently had this occur a couple of times, and after retesting found (hopefully) that they were false positives. My scouts were happy with the trip, and everything about the camp other than the intense rain we had just about every afternoon.
  18. 1 point
    Sea Scouts and Exploring. Everyone will recall that Sea Scouts has been officially adopted by the US Coast Guard Auxiliary as its youth program, much as Navy Sea Cadets is the official youth program of the Navy. Sea Scouts can even have dual membership with the Auxiliary. The partnership is important, because it aligns Sea Scouts with a national organization with resources and reach -- including into the Coast Guard itself. Sea Scouts is a micro-sized program and needs to grow. Without a strong Auxiliary link being developed, it might be difficult to sustain Sea Scouts into the future. Individuals are now threatening legal action against Auxiliary sponsorship or program engagement with Sea Scouts because the religious belief membership standard cannot be required by a government entity like the Auxiliary. These are no-win situations for the BSA. Long ago Law Enforcement Exploring was transferred into "Learning for Life" -- a BSA membership structure that does not include a religious belief standard (at the time the BSA's previous "don't-ask-don't-tell" membership standard was also an issue). This was an effective way to continue these government-connected programs in the face of program-killing legal action and political opposition. I predict the same will happen here because of the existential need to continue and build the Auxiliary-Sea Scout relationship. I hope that as the transfer is made, the program and term "Sea Scout" continue as-is. I earned Quartermaster in my Auxiliary-supported Ship in the mid-70's, which meant that during the time I was a "Sea Explorer". The label never really worked, and the participants called themselves Sea Scouts in any case. There is no legal or rational program purpose to force a relabeling of the program -- just make the shift of things as-is to avoid the legal problem.
  19. 1 point
    In my son's crew most don't do advancement because they are tired of that grind. They practice the other methods of scouting and work together to plan and execute trips. reminder, Advancement is only one method of scouting.
  20. 0 points
    As an adult member and former boy member, I won't completely rule out contributing to the victim compensation fund, one way or another. But it will really hang a weight around recruitment and retention. BSA's own internal review identified 12,254 victims in the Ineligble Volunteer Files (cited in a Washigton Post article). MSU's settlement in the Larry Nassar case was a little over $1.5 million per victim. Back in 2007, the Diocese of Los Angeles settled with over 500 alleged victims for about $1.3 million per victim. So that could add up to (very roughly) $18 billion for a "market rate" total settlement fund. Divide that by the number of currently active Scouts, and it's $8,788 settlement share per current youth member. The BSA assets in complete liquidation wouldn't even be "10 cents on the dollar", more like 5 or 6 cents. Since I have four kids in Scouting, that would be over $35,000 I'd have to pay off over the next 2 to 12 years to keep them in the program... less than my yearly salary, but enough for a decent new car, or a few really nice vacations, or a major home renovation, or one kid's tuition and room and board for a year at MSU, or all the kids' tuition for each to get an associate's degree at a community college. But there's a long list of people who presumably benefited from the pre-YPT program more directly than I did, and more than my kids will, and it seems like they should be paying something toward any settlement, even though there's probably no actual legal way to pass the liability on to them now: Anyone who earned Eagle before 1989 Anyone who was a professional Council or National Council employee before 1989 Anyone who served on any level Committee (unit, district, council, national) before 1989 Any parent who saved money that otherwise would have been spent on babysitters or fees to another youth organization's camps, by sending his or her boy to Scout Camp, before 1989 Any boy who learned something from Scouting, or had a great time while participating, before 1989 Any organization or community member who accepted volunteer labor from Scouts, before 1989 And of course the Scoutmasters and other volunteers who actually committed or covered up the abuse Then again, all of those people are older than me, many are probably deceased, and some may themselves have been victims.
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