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  2. We really old guys likely chuckle, or get annoyed by the complaints about that type of thing. I was 15 and a Life Scout when I was sitting on a log at campfire at old Camp Arataba and guys in nice regalia were moving about in the crowd. All of a sudden a very loud yell in my ear found me being jerked to my feet and pushed to the front of the area where I was "tapped out", and I mean TAPPED OUT. All of us were then taken to get sleeping bags and went off to the woods. Of course that was when most tap outs were done heavily and you might hear the shoulder tap a long way away. We all wore th
  3. Your mention of a lack of adults wanting to be in the outdoors reminded me of a post I saw on an OA FB page. A guy went through Ordeal and described it as the toughest thing he had ever done. I was rather shocked. He looks to be about mid-30s. I went through Ordeal at 17 and found it to be easier than a day at Philmont. Frankly, the Ordeal these days is easier than the Lodge induction at my old Catholic camp in southern Illinois. I think it was based on the OA when the camp opened in the 60s and was never really updated.
  4. The key point here is that fewer scouts (and likely their parents) want to camp ... ... as illustrated here Barry, I used to see that but not anymore. The parents I'm seeing aren't interested. One example is an eagle scout who worked at a high adventure base as a youth. When I said great, we can't wait to have you come on our next campout, he hemmed and hawed and said he doesn't do cold weather. We can take his kid but he won't come on that trip. I used to not worry about what the BSA did because I figured the parents would take up the slack and do scouting, one way or the
  5. Yesterday
  6. The obvious answer is that we haven't changed the name of the organization enough. I'm certain people will be knocking the doors down now.
  7. We haven't been doing great working with our packs. In the past, the Pack leaders were much more responsive to our invites but recently most kids are dropping before getting to Boy Scouts. So, this is a bit of a Hail Mary. If we fail to recruit by fall 2025 our Troop will likely fold. Also, we have gone from 4 feeder packs 4 years ago to 1 this coming fall. 3 of the 4 packs have folded.
  8. That's not a bad idea. I wish our troop was as invested in the pack as yours. Our troop has the same CO but no interaction. Most of the kids came from a pack that folded due to the CO dropping them. Of course, our pack will probably fold at the end of the year due to lack of parental interest and my son crossing over to a different troop.
  9. As a Troop, we have seen massive losses before crossover, so we are looking to pilot running the 5th grade AOL program. Our plan is to hold AOL meetings concurrently with Troop Meetings had have our Troop Guide and a ASM run the den meeting. Basically take over for the den leaders. Not sure if it will work, but we figured it can't be worse than what has been happening the last 3 years.
  10. So far this appears to be the only direct, unfiltered presentation to us from NAM 2024. Thank you and Scout Salute to Scouter Selby (note Assistant Scoutmaster patch)
  11. The Cub program was pretty simple. I think it started too early, but I get the need to get kids interested before they get into sports. It really just took an evening of study to fully grasp it. Taking away the beads and arrowheads simplified things a bit, but then adding in the belt loops made things worse to me. Most kids don't have a waist big enough to carry all the belt loops. Adding back the beads in different colors and ditching the arrow head and belt loops would be an improvement. I think that moving AOL to its own 5th grade program is a bad idea. Puts extra pressure on the DL
  12. Get your thoughts on the riding segment... Riding. A Scout, Sea Scout, or Venturer may earn the National Outdoor Badge for Riding upon successfully completing the following requirements: Earn the First Class rank, Sea Scout Apprentice rank, or complete Venturing Ranger Award requirements 1-6. Complete the requirements for at least one of the following: Cycling merit badge or Ranger Cycling/Mountain Biking elective and 100 miles of cycling Horsemanship merit badge or Ranger Equestrian elective and 20 miles of horseback riding Motorboating merit ba
  13. As I recall, that was also following the disastrously poorly conceived SCOUTING USA rebrand. Rebrands are highly problematic. BSA needs to be smart about this. (I know, I know).
  14. A lot of people get spread thin; but if more leaders just asked people to step up it wouldnt be such a problem. I see a lot of troops in my area suffering from low scouter numbers; however, they are doing it to themselves. Heck I mentioned troop resource surveys at my sons troop and I would be dead right now if looks could kill.
  15. Not required, although some may like to (my son doesn't like the feel of the scout shirt on his torso, so wears an undershirt or a performance "activity uniform" shirt underneath). I wear a performance shirt underneath if camping in cooler weather, etc Reference top button, as the ASM in charge of Trail to First Class said, "You're not in church, so undo that button!" 😄
  16. Less willingness, or less ability/time to do so? My wife and I are already having talks about how far down the Scouter rabbit hole do we go. I'm an ACM for the pack with our youngest (just got his Wolf), and an ASM for the Troop where out eldest just crossed over. My wife is the Wolf (now Bear) DL and Pack Treasurer. (Our CM is also an ASM, and our pack CC is also an ASM - the joys of kids split by age, and the CC, CM, and our sons are all in the same Den, so that could be "fun" for the pack in 3 years...). I did the NRA RSO training last weekend as my wife works with one of the Coun
  17. See? This is what happens when you don't ask your Highway Commissioner if she ever was a Cub Scout....
  18. Last time National improved the program, Bill Hillcourt had to come out of retirement to lead it.
  19. I’ve been preaching for a more simple cub program for many years because it pulls down the membership for all the other programs. But, I fear it’s the troop program that will be changed, which doesn’t need change. National has rarely shown to make changes to better the program toward a better program. Barry
  20. 2 reasons. 1. Guys will always hide their feelings, emotions, and turmoil. Especially when when trying to make an impression on similarly aged females. But even as adults the societal norm is that men need to be the tough, unemotional and independent, despite that folks say otherwise. Sadly I know folks who have major physical and emotional traume, and when they go to their wives or significant others, they have been told to deal with it themselves, or worse divorced because the health issue caused roles to be reversed. Their support is all men's groups, and even then some of this doesn't
  21. That's what this looks like to me. Obviously being young can be rocky and the adult world needs to offer compassionate and skillful support, but I am curious about why this just wasn't a thing when I was that age myself and now it is.
  22. Most of the best Troops and Packs in my area have older scouters involved. One major issue is that there appears to be less willingness to volunteer the massive amount of hours scouting requires from the upcoming generation of parents. One Troo I talked with mentioned that in the past there was some competition over who would be Scoutmaster and now parents want a program but don't want to volunteer. This may be a N of 3-4 and may not be widespread, but I get the sense that BSA sees a problem. Simplifying programs could be beneficial but could also lead to some really bad outcomes. I
  23. Once BSA moved to admit girls, it should have changed the name to reflect its dual membership. Once BSA decided to accept girls' membership dollars, and charge girls the same fees that it charges to boys, it had a duty to make sure the general program experiences and opportunities were similar. That's what a well managed, functional organization would do. If it didn't want girls, and it didn't want their membership numbers and their membership dollars, then it would have made sense to retain the old name and the old perspectives and live with that. But that's not what the organization did, and
  24. Western Society has focused on girls and women for the past 40+ years. Even the current studies that say girls need all girl environments at times, neglects the fact that boys need it as well. It's on my to read list, after I finish my current series, but A SELF MADE MAN, written by a women who impersonated a man for 18 months, discusses how society is so focused on women, that the mental, physical, and social needs of men are completely neglected. The author's conclusion: "I really like being a woman. ... I like it more now because I think it's more of a privilege." Part of
  25. And here again we see reality in the U.S. Somehow, not sure we can pinpoint the change, our cultural viewpoints relating to interactions of youth at "those critical years" got skewed to paranoia, rather than growth and learning to deal. Maybe like the concept of the glass half full or half empty? Something less than positive happens somewhere and it is hyped by media and people with skewed reasoning and becomes an issue where it really is not the norm, nor usually a problem. Then the fear mongers grab it and make it worse. Then somebody does a "study", one preordained in most cases, and
  26. I have been told that Scouting has been my surrogate family, with the adults in my life being surrogate fathers, the Scouts in my youth as surrogate brothers, and depending upon what age as an adult I was, me serving in a older brother or father role. I have served in various roles for over 30 years, and until recently also had a passion for Scouting. Read some of my posts over the past 5 years so see issues. I have rebuilt so much over the years, and the current state of Scouting is deeply depressing: declining membership, inability to get council support, ad nauseum. My troop is dying
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    • We really old guys likely chuckle, or get annoyed by the complaints about that type of thing.  I was 15 and a Life Scout when I was sitting on a log at campfire at old Camp Arataba and guys in nice regalia were moving about in the crowd.  All of a sudden a very loud yell in my ear found me being jerked to my feet and pushed to the front of the area where I was "tapped out", and I mean TAPPED OUT.  All of us were then taken to get sleeping bags and went off to the woods.  Of course that was when most tap outs were done heavily and you might hear the shoulder tap a long way away.  We all wore the wooden arrow and if you were judged to violating the instructions you could get a notch in the arrow.  Three in theory washed you out.  Ten minutes before the end the next day, a friend of mine walked up and asked me something, and I answered.  Still someplace is that arrow with one notch.  He laughed at me a bit, but that was how it was then.  The suspense and solemnity of the ceremonies loomed large, and most looked forward to "maybe" being judged worthy.  There were restrictions on how many could be voted in based on troop size and number eligible.  We all know how it is now.  Still, the program has many high spots still, though harder to get to with all the fear of legal stuff and frankly, pampered kids.  
    • Your mention of a lack of adults wanting to be in the outdoors reminded me of a post I saw on an OA FB page.  A guy went through Ordeal and described it as the toughest thing he had ever done.  I was rather shocked.  He looks to be about mid-30s.  I went through Ordeal at 17 and found it to be easier than a day at Philmont.  Frankly, the Ordeal these days is easier than the Lodge induction at my old Catholic camp in southern Illinois.  I think it was based on the OA when the camp opened in the 60s and was never really updated.  
    • The key point here is that fewer scouts (and likely their parents) want to camp ... ... as illustrated here Barry, I used to see that but not anymore. The parents I'm seeing aren't interested. One example is an eagle scout who worked at a high adventure base as a youth. When I said great, we can't wait to have you come on our next campout, he hemmed and hawed and said he doesn't do cold weather. We can take his kid but he won't come on that trip. I used to not worry about what the BSA did because I figured the parents would take up the slack and do scouting, one way or the other.  Now, it appears the BSA is saying something we don't want to admit. Too many adults are afraid of the outdoors. Which makes no sense because I see so many RVs around here. But maybe it's that they like the outdoors, but only for a few hours at a time. Certainly not 40 hours on a weekend.  I think this change has been going on for a long time, at least a few decades, but it seems to have accelerated lately. It's not like it's everyone. My old troop still has a few scouts that want to do high adventure trips but it's not like 20 years ago when every single new scout wanted to go on klondike because that was the biggest challenge they'd ever seen. Now, there are scouts that have been in the troop for 2 years and still haven't gone on a campout.  It's like having a soccer team where half the kids don't want to go out on the field. That's why I told my old troop I was done. I can't figure out how to work with kids and parents that think the meetings are all there is to scouts. I suspect the BSA (or SSA or S,SA or whatever) is also struggling with this. Ten years ago my troop was really strong but probably half the troops in our district were struggling with things like having enough adults to go camping. My old troop is still one of the stronger troops but that's only because the others are on life support. Now, it's like those troops were ten years ago. My guess is the BSA has no idea how to change that. I admit, I don't have any ideas either. I joked about the name change before because, honestly, worrying about what one can't control is unhealthy. The same goes for the rearranging of deck chairs the BSA does with its name. I've finally decided it is what it is and I can't and shouldn't think about changing it.  
    • The obvious answer is that we haven't changed the name of the organization enough.  I'm certain people will be knocking the doors down now.
    • We haven't been doing great working with our packs.  In the past, the Pack leaders were much more responsive to our invites but recently most kids are dropping before getting to Boy Scouts.  So, this is a bit of a Hail Mary.  If we fail to recruit by fall 2025 our Troop will likely fold.   Also, we have gone from 4 feeder packs 4 years ago to 1 this coming fall.  3 of the 4 packs have folded.
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