Motivation or Threat?

[5thGenTexan 504]

Background... Since last December the Troop has gotten in the habit of conducting only MB requirements during meetings.  And I mean sitting the Troop room for some time hour and a half with what amounts to lectures.  Tonight at the end of the Troop meeting I heard the SM talk about how they started work on Citizenship in Nation and then went on to say "If you work hard and finish up in the next two meetings we can have a fun play meeting on the third meeting OR we can just keep having boring classroom meeting"  I am not sure if thats exact, but that is about as accurate as I can remember.

 

Is that truly motivation or is it something else?

[UKScouterInCA 45]

I guess the question is - who is coming up with the meeting agenda's? The Scouts or the Scoutmaster?

 

I'm not a huge fan of Troop meetings being very focused on MBs but to each their own. MBs seem to be better done in Scouts own time with meetings focused on (fun) Scout Skills more.

[5thGenTexan 504]

9 minutes ago, UKScouterInCA said:

I guess the question is - who is coming up with the meeting agenda's? The Scouts or the Scoutmaster?

 

I'm not a huge fan of Troop meetings being very focused on MBs but to each their own. MBs seem to be better done in Scouts own time with meetings focused on (fun) Scout Skills more.

You know honestly I don't know.  There was apparently a PLC lately, but I am unable to find out what was accomplished.  In addition to being CC, I am also Secretary so I was asking for dates to fill in the calendar for the rest of the year.  I know there have been adults deciding what MB they are going to teach next and I think that how its going.  I seriously doubt Scouts sat down and picked Citizenship in Nation to start working on without it just being decided for them.

[SiouxRanger 491]

Gee, seems like a threat to me.

But, probably more like an inexperienced scouter believing he is doing a proper job by working on merit badges so scouts advance, not realizing that advancement is secondary to learning leadership by doing. And that failures from which lessons are learned are more valuable than a series of successes where the scout has no clue why things succeeded.

And, in 25 years of attending virtually every troop meeting, never seen one where the entire meeting was entirely merit badge instruction.  And, in all that time, maybe only a dozen where there was any merit badge instruction at all.  Personal Fitness is amenable to group treatment as far as the various exercises.  All the scouts do their exercises and their performance recorded.

I am generally opposed to scouts earning a merit badge in a group.  Where they sit through an hour of class and walk away with a merit badge. I don't think that comes close to the how a merit badge is to be earned.

I do support group instruction where the scouts fill out their merit badge workbooks and THEN meet with a different counselor to actually counsel the scout on that badge.  The scout learns at the group session, but has to record what the scout learns and then discuss that knowledge with a different counselor.

I favor a unit having a Troop Meeting Agenda form, with the major parts of the meeting are identified on the form, eg, Opening, Activity 1-Training, Activity 2-campout prep., Activity 3-merit badge work, Announcements, SM Minute, Closing. And with a start time for each segment.  (And that format is one of many which are appropriate). But the Scouts should actually fill out the form in the PLC (for each meeting for the next month) and submit it/them to the SM for approval.

I'd suggest just keep asking questions of the procedure, provide several troop meeting agenda forms from the web.  Have the troop committee take up the matter, and see if the adults can get an agenda form before the scouts for them to use as guidance to plan their meetings.

[scoutldr 732]

Have all the adults and youth leaders been "Trained" in their positions?  Do they attend Roundtable?  Are those "teaching" the MB registered and trained MBC?

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Mixed emotions on MBs at meetings.

One one hand, I do not think they should be done all the time and the primary focus of all meetings. Scouting is not suppose to be school. You will lose Scouts.

On the other hand, if the troop's activity for the month has a MB, and some prep work needs to be done AND the prep work is MB related, I do not see a problem. Best example I can give of this is Canoeing MB. We had a canoe trip planned, and the meeting before it were prep work i.e. part of a canoe, paddle etc, packing for water trips, strokes, etc. we even moved the meeting to a nearby lake to practice on the water before the trip.

But in  rare cases will an entire MB be completed at the meetings.

[fred8033 1593]

Dang.  I'm having trouble staying out.  I'm trying to wean scouting out of my system.

Scouting is supposed to be FUN; a bunch of friends getting together with a purpose.   Yes, mtgs should prep for activities and camp outs.  Making sure scouts have the needed skills.  ... BUT ... It's like my wife's book club.  They get together.  Talk.  Laugh.  Eat.  Choose the next book.  Some talk about the book.  Laugh.  Talk about other things.  ... A few of the ladies might read the book, but it's not really the purpose of the group.  The group is fellowship and building relationships.  Same for scouting.

Too many adults think the big, big purpose of scouting is to earn MBs and advancement.  It's pushing scouts away from scouting.  Advancement is just one part of scouting.  The bigger part is helping these young people build friendships, connections and get new experiences.

6 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I favor a unit having a Troop Meeting Agenda form, with the major parts of the meeting are identified on the form, eg, Opening, Activity 1-Training, Activity 2-campout prep., Activity 3-merit badge work, Announcements, SM Minute, Closing. And with a start time for each segment.  (And that format is one of many which are appropriate). But the Scouts should actually fill out the form in the PLC (for each meeting for the next month) and submit it/them to the SM for approval.

This is what I've seen too.  In addition, I've seen an annual plan ... developed by the scouts ... where there is a theme, campout, activity and MB scheduled every month.  Then, the scouts "HAVE THE CHOICE" whether to participate on the campout, activity and MB. 

IMHO, troop meetings are absolutely NOT the venue to have scouts sit for 60 to 90 minutes listening to a MB lecture.  ... Instead, a mtg is a gathering, flags/opening, scout-made announcements, activities (skills, games, MB, etc ... that the scouts and/or their patrol chooses).  My ideal is a MB councilor is present as a resource to individual scouts who want MB requirement signoffs.  Maybe a 5 or 10 minutes (at most) presentation by the MB councilor now and then. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

18 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Dang.  I'm having trouble staying out.  I'm trying to wean scouting out of my system.

Repeat after me:

HI, My Name is Fred8033, it's been 18 hours since I had anything to do with Scouting, and I am a Scouting Addict.  🤣

[SiouxRanger 491]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Repeat after me:

HI, My Name is Fred8033, it's been 18 hours since I had anything to do with Scouting, and I am a Scouting Addict.  🤣

OK, I'm in for 4 Upvotes, 2 Thanks, and a dozen chuckles.

[SSScout 1615]

Oh, the memories....   

Our Troop was an "outdoors" Troop. An overnight each month, maybe not in the winter, but yes we did...

Patrols met at a Scout's house.  Made stuff. Collected money for the next trip.  Played ball.  Patrols did NOT meet at the Troop meeting, except for Patrol competitions or special training.  You wanted a Merit Badge?  you PHONED Council and asked for the MBC list for that MB.  I remember Aviation had three councilors , all of them in Virginia (We were in Maryland).  This one necessitated a couple of phone conversations with a "strange" adult, and at least one trip by dad over the river to this man's house to display my models and talk  to him. That's just one example.  Others were equally necessitated by ME doing the calling and arranging. SM and dad would help, but not unless I asked. Not unless I asked, there is the operant word.  

Some MBs happened at summer camp, some were arranged when a couple of us got together and ASKED.   I do not remember  a regular thing of a "MB Class" at any Troop meeting. 

My home Troop nowadays does ONE special training for the First Aid MB, of late, a VFD Paramedic comes in and does it.  Oh boy, do the Scouts pay attention to her/him.

What 5th GenTex is describing is known around here as an EAGLE MILL.    I note to Scout folks often that Eagle is an AWARD, not a GOAL.   

Ya gotta remind folks about that.  I have seen Eagles that used the rank /award as a way of growing, became future Scout leaders and leaders of note elsewhere. They came back to visit. , I have seen some who finished the rank, essentially turned to their parents and said "There ! Are you happy now?"  and we never see them in Scouting again.  I have seen some who followed the lead of their friends and finished and knew they had really accomplished something , used that as a means to other things....

It is the philosophy of the Scoutmaster that sets the tone.  The Committee needs to decide what type of Troop  they want to be known as.  My first SM was a sit around the campfire smoke his pipe and tell stories  type.  He trained the older Scouts in Scout craft, they taught us.  Knife and axe, poison ivy,  campfire cooking,  compass, ,, yeah some I got from my mom and dad, but the rest I got from some other good men and women.....  

[SiouxRanger 491]

Fred8033 is a treasure here. Among a choir of voices of reason. I thank Fred8033 and all of you for your guidance, wisdom, and balance.

[MattR 2659]

@fred8033 , maybe your wife's book group could run the troop? Just joking, but ... would they?

I agree with you mostly. I encourage scouts to find the few fun requirements in any MB, that actually involve doing something, and making a meeting or campout out of those. Leave the describe, discuss, explain requirements for those scouts that want it. It doesn't always work but it gets them thinking about challenging activities.

@5thGenTexan , I have to ask, why are you still in that troop? Uniforms, meetings, campouts; it seems that everything is a wreck. You have good ideas and you're ignored. It seems to me that you aren't finding any joy in this. Is your son finding any joy in the troop? That's the only thing I can think of that's keeping you there.

I ask because I get frustrated as well. And then out of nowhere things come together, magic blooms, the scouts and adults do great and I decide I can keep at it.

[Eagledad 2779]

14 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

 Tonight at the end of the Troop meeting I heard the SM talk about how they started work on Citizenship in Nation and then went on to say "If you work hard and finish up in the next two meetings we bla bla bla.

Hmm, yes, well! There are a whole of things wrong even before starting with "If you work..........".

I'm trying to imagine one of the scouts talking to a neighbor friend at home saying; "Hey, you want to come to our troop meeting tonight? We are spending an hour and a half working on (listening to an adult) the Citizenship in the Nation merit badge".

If a scout misses one of those meetings, is his life better or worse? I'm betting even the adults are dreading it.

Barry

[5thGenTexan 504]

21 minutes ago, MattR said:

5thGenTexan , I have to ask, why are you still in that troop? Uniforms, meetings, campouts; it seems that everything is a wreck. You have good ideas and you're ignored. It seems to me that you aren't finding any joy in this. Is your son finding any joy in the troop? That's the only thing I can think of that's keeping you there.

 We are in small town of about 7000.  To go to another Troop is to leave town about 30 minutes in any direction with Scouts my kid doesnt even go to school with,  I am the one, about single handily that formed the Girl Troop here, so even I bug out of the Boy Troop I will still be around.  I am CC for both and the one that has made the effort to make all the community contacts.  Mayor, City Council, etc... they all know who I am.  I DO NOT like conflict, so I probably havent done what I should do to try to correct the problem.  I am not really sure as CC how much I can get into what the SM does and how the program is run.  I dont understand the official stance on what I can do.  This Troop is very old,, created in 1913, so one of the oldest in the State and the US.  I don't want them running it in the ground and I kinda feel like me and a couple of others are all that stands in the way of that.  If I decide to stand my ground there is the risk of a bunch of em leaving, so then I have to figure out new a SM and others.  Maybe thats not a bad thing.

[5thGenTexan 504]

AND, they have planned another "Family fun Day" at a local lake.  Because if its a family fun day, its just families getting together and they don't have to worry about the rules.  This upcoming one is a swimming and kayaking event.  Excuse my language, but this just scares the crap out of me they are taking Scouts to a lake with no lifeguards, no one has taken Safe Swim.  And without that, I think if something happens insurance wont pay since they skirted everything.  Not that insurance is my primary concern, it is safety of the Scouts.