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John-in-KC

2019 GUIDE TO SAFE SCOUTING

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Moderator Note

As @Beavah reminded us often, BSA is not known for its consistency in products. 

Noted:  The prohibition on dodgeball by youth members is inconsistent with what several councils, not to mention other parts of the scouting dot org domain, say and do.

lets move along...

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16 hours ago, PACAN said:

RichardB  I saw someone post this on facebook

Please explain incident #4  https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/incident-report/incident-reviews/gaga-ball/     It says the mulch or sand much be 2 FEET in depth in the pit.  Pits are almost always made with 3 2x10" boards so you would only have 6 inches inside the pit????

Also another person posted a book on Scout Games written by a Scout Exec in Hartford in the 1920s listing Dodge Ball as one of the allowed games...any record on when this was changed?

 

Just because you saw it on FB (most likely Talk about Scouting) doesn't mean it makes sense.     The pit sits on top of the mulch or sand right base.   Good to know we have folks quoting 1920's literature.  Back in those days Scoutmasters were licensed to teach what was in the handbook.  No more, no less.   Times were simple back then.     Was also about the time camp standards came into play.   

Edited by RichardB
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1 hour ago, RichardB said:

Back in those days Scoutmasters were licensed to teach what was in the handbook.  No more, no less.   Times were simple back then.    

Richard, on the other side of the coin, scoutmasters in the '20s didn't have to wade through a morass of poorly written publications from National, as is the case in 2019.  Also, they didn't have to contend with constant/needless changes, program dilution, hand-wringing and micromanagement from National.  Indeed, times were simpler.

Edited by desertrat77
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@RichardB

Thanks for your response....

What is the national's process to have all these ga ga pits that are on BSA property and are not in compliance with what you said either removed or corrected?  Admittedly my data set is small but three BSA camps I have been to with these pits are on dirt or asphalt. All of these camps were fully certified. I just did a google image search on ga ga pits and there were also numerous Eagle projects not in compliance either (I did see one where there was mulch inside up as high as the top of the 2nd board). 

There are lots of cool things in BSA publications from the early days. One of my favorites is the required 14 mile hike either solo or with one other scout for 1st class.  🙂 

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@PACAN I'd call your attention to the actual document you quoted as an incident review it's not a compliance document, just pointing out what a safe surface consists of.     Since this obviously has moved you to action, we encourage you to share these lessons within your area of influence.    They are just one of the many tools offered to get the word out about safety of participants in the Scouting program.       

 

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@RichardB  

So help me out here...from National's area of influence, at what point to Incident reports generate a compliance document?

Since councils are not required to comply with incident reports the Camp Directors and Scout Execs they can ignore them.  Seems disjointed.

Anyway...thanks for the responses...always good to learn how things work.

 

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3 hours ago, RichardB said:

@Eagle94-A1 nice catch on the publications.   The offending file you identified has been terminated.   Thanks.   

GREAT! Now can you remove the sentence that is incorrect fro the FAQ?

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Oh gosh, you can't have a SOCK FIGHT?

We had a cub scout indoor snowball fight, using brand new socks.

Socks were then washed, packaged and donated to homeless shelter.

We got over 800 pairs of socks

and not a single person was injured by cub scouts throwing socks at each other.

 

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On September 4, 2019 at 5:49 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

GREAT! Now can you remove the sentence that is incorrect fro the FAQ?

@Eagle94-A1, the organization dare not admit that this was a sanctioned part of the program lest 20 years from now a class of injured files for reparations. Far better to pay lawyers to delay discovery ....

 

 

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10 hours ago, 5yearscouter said:

Oh gosh, you can't have a SOCK FIGHT?

We had a cub scout indoor snowball fight, using brand new socks.

Socks were then washed, packaged and donated to homeless shelter.

We got over 800 pairs of socks

and not a single person was injured by cub scouts throwing socks at each other.

 

If you start with socks, by the time they're young adults it'll be milk shakes and molotovs in the streets of Portland!  Is that what you want????  🤣

Seriously though, nice job combining a fun activity with a community service.  

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so. after reviewing the new updates. in particular 

sarcasm in effect.

 Prohibited Activities (Effective 10-1-2019) 

14 .Activities where participants shoot or throw objects at each other, such as rock-throwing, paintball, laser or archery tag, sock fights, or dodgeball.
I must now also prohibit ultimate Frisbee,baseball and other similar activity's.


oh and no more water polo or volley ball

9.Extreme or action sports and associated activities that involve an unusually high degree of risk and often involve speed, height, a high level of exertion, and specialized gear or equipment. These activities include but are not limited to

Bubbleball, Knockerball®, zorbing, Battle Balls™, bubble soccer, bubble football, and similar orb activities where participants collide or roll around on land or water

Hold on a minute. I have to tell my son that his friend (who is a scout) needs to leave because I am the only adult(registered leader) in my house, and I do not have 2 deep leadership outside of scouting.

OK.  potential lawsuit avoided.

 

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Now now, let's not be melodramatic. The G2SS only refers to activities which are conducted under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of America. If you are in your own home, conducting the private affairs of your own life, then logically it doesn't apply. But, if you call it a Scout activity and those participating are there AS SCOUTS, not merely as private domestic guests, and if their parents know that they are sending their child to attend a Scout activity, then yes, absolutely, you need to follow the protocols as outlined in the guide. 

It's common sense, really, and it would be silly to follow and then derail that train of thought by imagining that somehow you have to follow the G2SS even in the privacy of your own home simply because you have a son or a spouse who is a Scout. The guide is for official activities only; it's not the mandate of your personal affairs. 

It's only when you are indeed at an actual Scout activity and trying to follow the guide that the pitiable lunacy of some of the regulations are made evident. :rolleyes:

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2 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

Now now, let's not be melodramatic. The G2SS only refers to activities which are conducted under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of America. If you are in your own home, conducting the private affairs of your own life, then logically it doesn't apply. But, if you call it a Scout activity and those participating are there AS SCOUTS, not merely as private domestic guests, and if their parents know that they are sending their child to attend a Scout activity, then yes, absolutely, you need to follow the protocols as outlined in the guide. 

It's common sense, really, and it would be silly to follow and then derail that train of thought by imagining that somehow you have to follow the G2SS even in the privacy of your own home simply because you have a son or a spouse who is a Scout. The guide is for official activities only; it's not the mandate of your personal affairs. 

It's only when you are indeed at an actual Scout activity and trying to follow the guide that the pitiable lunacy of some of the regulations are made evident. :rolleyes:

I'd not be so sure of that.  Here are a couple relevant Q&As from the Youth Protection FAQ (the second is directly relevant and characteristically vague):

Q. The Barriers to Abuse states “One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting.” What does ‘inside and outside of Scouting’ mean?

A. The BSA has adopted its youth protection policies for the safety and well-being of its members. These policies primarily protect youth members; however, they also serve to protect adult leaders. All parents and caregivers should understand that our leaders are to abide by these safeguards. Registered leaders must follow these guidelines with all Scouting youth outside of Scouting activities. There are careers that may require one-on-one contact with youth, however aside from those roles, volunteers must abide by the youth protection policies of the BSA even outside of Scouting activities.

This policy is in place to prevent abuse in and out of Scouting.   Adults should never be alone with youth who are not their children.

Q. Does this mean my son cannot have a sleepover if I am the only adult present?

A. Yes, if any of the children other than your own child is a Scout, we strongly encourage all adults to use the Barriers to Abuse in and out of Scouting.  

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