Five Myths About Christmas (answered?)

[BartHumphries 10]

I thought Jesus was born in the spring because that's when the shepherds would have been "out with their flocks by night", i.e. during lambing season.

 

"If the Bethlehem star was in the East, why did the Magi travel west."

Perhaps the star was in the East because the Magi were traveling West:

B...s...M

x = Bethlehem

s = star, in the East from Bethlehem's point of view

M = Magi, traveling towards the star which is West from their point of view (but then they weren't the ones writing the Bible stories).

[le Voyageur 72]

 

There was no supernatural "star" ...if anything. More than likely they used either the Silk road, or the Incense road, each well known, and well used....

[skeptic 997]

Passing along a piece of possible history related to traditions; whether it is accurate or not, I do not know.

 

This answers the old question regarding the meaning of the 12 days of Chrismas: I did not write it, but appreciate the lesson.

 

From 1558 until 1829, Roman Catholics in England were not permitted to practice their faith openly. Someone during that era wrote this carol as a catechism song for young Catholics. It has two levels of meaning: the surface meaning plus a hidden meaning known only to members of their church. Each Element in the carol has a code word for a religious reality which the children could remember.

 

-The partridge in a pear tree was Jesus Christ.

 

-Two turtle doves were the Old and New Testaments.

 

-Three French hens stood for faith, hope and love.

 

-The four calling birds were the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

 

-The five golden rings recalled the Torah or Law, the first five books of the Old Testament.

 

-The six geese a-laying stood for the six days of creation.

 

-Seven swans a-swimming represented the sevenfold gifts of the Holy Spirit--Prophesy, Serving, Teaching, Exhortation, Contribution, Leadership, and Mercy.

 

-The eight maids a-milking were the eight beatitudes.

 

-Nine ladies dancing were the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit--Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness,

Gentleness, and Self Control.

 

-The ten lords a-leaping were the ten commandments.

 

-The eleven pipers piping stood for the eleven faithful disciples.

 

-The twelve drummers drumming symbolized the twelve points of belief in the Apostles' Creed.

 

So there is your history for today. This knowledge was shared with me and I found it interesting and enlightening and now I know how that strange song became a Christmas Carol...so pass it on if you wish.'

 

Merry (Twelve Days of) Christmas Everyone

[BartHumphries 10]

Snopes doesn't agree with the 12 Days of Christmas having a hidden meaning: http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/music/12days.asp

[skeptic 997]

Thanks Bart, interesting discussion of the explanation. Still, another fun thing to try and explain old traditions. Realistically, most of the old songs and so on are difficult to really determine origin. Silent Night does appear to have truth to its story. Surely there are a few others. Merry Christmas or whatever you prefer.

[Beavah 205]

If not how can I tell the difference between respect and disrespect when calling something a myth?

 

Yah, packsaddle, generally speakin' "myth" is a term used by atheists and academics when they want to belittle the legitimate beliefs of other people. They'll pretend it's a technical term that means "ancient story", except that they deliberately chose the term because it has an original colloquial meaning of fictional story, where the term "story" can be real or fictional.

 

So usin' the term "myth" for someone's religious tale that they believe is true in at least some ways is a choice to belittle and denigrate those people, as Merlyn does repeatedly here. You'll note that when I used da term "myth" for the theoretical stories of science, he reacted with great vigor and insult, eh? That's because in truth, he interprets "myth" to mean "silly fictional story", and intends the insult to others.

 

As you do, when yeh use the term sometimes.

 

Merry Christmas to all, wherever you happen to be tending your flocks this time of year. May the Joy and the Hope of the Season which is truly True, be with each of you and yours.

 

And for those who are celebrating the tail end of the Festival of Lights, a Blessed Hanukkah to yeh.

 

Treasure stories which are True with your family, tales of joy and wonder and thanksgiving.

 

Beavah

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, and all yeh sheep scholars... have yeh ever been to Bethlehem? Yeh do know that it's located in da subtropics near da warm Mediterranean basin, right?

 

The mountains pick up winter rains which cause the grass to grow up higher that time of year. By spring, they start dryin' out so the higher elevations become arid and dry in da summer, when yeh have to graze in the valleys closer to town, relyin' on the runoff and such.

 

Shepherds watch their flocks by night when grazin' in the high country away from town, in winter and spring.

 

Beavah

 

[packsaddle 753]

Merry Christmas, Beavah. I hope you and yours are warm and well this holiday.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Stosh 3452]

Which of the stories being discussed is the culprit for being disrespectful for. I'm just not seeing it.

 

 

"Jerusalem lies at an altitude of about 700 metres above sea level atop the central range of hills that forms the geological backbone of the Holy Land. It is influenced by winds from the West (that bring cool sea breezes in summer and rain in winter) and winds from the East(that moderate winter temperatures but can make summer days hot and dry).

 

The Jerusalem winter starts around December and lasts until February, with rain and cold winds, and an occasional snowfall.

 

Spring is the best time of year to visit, from March to April/May. The landscape around the city is full of wild flowers. Rainfall lessens.

 

Summer( June to September)dry with NO rain. It can be warm, even hot, so take a hat, sunglasses and water with you.

 

The Autumn (Fall to Americans!) in October-November is still warm with changeable weather. Nights begin to get cool."

 

According to this bit of info from the tourist industry, the last place one would want to be is out in the cold, windy, occasional snow time of the year camping out with the sheep.

 

Once the spring returned and the vegetation began to return, the shepherds would head up to the high country for the fresh meadows.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[qwazse 4345]

Ya, jblake, and I'm sure one day there'll be a tourist guide on America that will say that you'll only find Boy Scouts out camping on warm summer days.

 

But, the ones who would listen to angels (or -- if you hew to the more modern mythology of Le V. -- would use them as an excuse to sneak back into town for a little warmth) would be the only one's crazy enough to be camping out on a mid-winters night.

 

The story of God's generosity to the lot of us stinking shepherds is about the best Christianity has to offer for an otherwise bleak season. Make of it what you will.

 

Boy do I miss camping this month. But I did get to go wading with the dolphins Christmas Eve morn. They kind of ruined our fishing though. But, it made the Mrs and Daughter happy because they thought they were gonna be just along to help Grandpa stay warm from the shore. Later, we caught up with some little great nieces and nephews and took them paddling on the Sebastian river. (Kayak rental was my present this year!)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

heck, Have I been to Bethlehem? I live in Bethlehem, we are just south of Nazareth, a bit north of Emmaus and east of Eygpt

[packsaddle 753]

This is the first year in about 30 years I haven't passed through Bethlehem. Had lunch there many times...and didn't know until too late that OGE was nearby. Perhaps another time, OGE.

 

"If not how can I tell the difference between respect and disrespect when calling something a myth?"

That question (still unanswered) was to Tampa Turtle. But you didn't answer it either, Beavah.

I, alone, already know what my intent is when I apply a term. That isn't in question. What is relevant is whether someone else attaches disrespect if I apply the term, 'myth'. I want to understand how I can know what the perception will be by someone else. And I'm hoping Tampa Turtle can educate me.

[Eagledad 2779]

>>I, alone, already know what my intent is when I apply a term. That isn't in question

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Perhaps I was too sensitive, perhaps not. However I chose to no longer to play in this particular topic sand pile.

[drmbear 10]

Humans are a storytelling species. For as long as the species has been communicating at all, telling stories is a way that we convey meaning. Look at early native American stories, African stories, and other stories from around the world. The stories are not only a reflection of the culture from which they came, but also an important way to pass on to those who follow important meaning about what is believed to be right and true and how to live life in the world. There was a story I remember hearing about a culture in Africa that demanded and required the mastery of at least 100 stories before a couple was permitted to become parents. It seems a good general rule.

 

Is it unreasonable to assume that the stories of the Bible are any different - an important way to pass on what is important in meaning and belief rather than documenting factual record. The underlying meaning is not lessenned just because "facts" don't necessarily hold up as true. It was very enlightening to learn storytelling and explore folklore and the literature that grew out of cultures that had no written record of their history. Rather than maintaining specific events and dates, what was maintained was the underlying meaning, lessons, consequences. So the verbal tradition story, with animal characters, that conveys the Golden Rule (for example), is no less important to that culture's development and success than the Ten Commandments are to those brought up in this culture, in my opinion.