desertrat77

Woapalanne, I've been in the OA since '76...and when it is time to work, my OA sash is hung over the nearest tree branch, or folded up and stowed in my pack. Also, sashes used to be much smaller in length back in the day, there was far less material to slip. But that's just me. If folks want to wear sashes to work, more power to them. But I don't think that alone justifies adding a useless appendage like loops to the uniform.

The SPL, ideally, he's a graduated PL with a successful track record. He's the one who guides the PLs in planning and executing troop meetings, skills instruction, campouts, the whole bit. The SPL, trained and utilized properly, does what many ASMs and SMs do in a troop. Clowns, office holders, and dictators get a elected (or appointed) to SPL because many adults don't know what to expect from an SPL. So the scouts never get an idea what to expect either. Then the troop suffers for six months. I'd recommend the scouts be briefed well before election on what the responsibilities are for each elected position. (A little citizenship training about decorum and respect for elections of any kind is probably appropriate too.) Once they get an idea that the biggest goofball in the troop isn't the guy they want for that position, you'll see some PLs think "hey, maybe I'd like to compete for SPL after I'm done with my PL gig." A new challenge.

Agreed, he should sew that patch on, and wear it to camp.

Volunteers to replace DEs? No way. Even the most dedicated volunteers could not be properly compelled to raise the "proper amount" of money from their community and send it to National. Not DE bashing, just reality.

Kudu, I'm tracking completely with your last post. That model (the good one, SPL working with the PLs, outdoors the majority of the time) pretty much describes my SPL experience back in the day ('70s, with my red beret and shaggy hair).(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Basement, as others mentioned, I think there is merit in the SM talking to the coach. He could be certified clip-board throwing-anti-scouting knucklehead, or he could be a semi-reasonable guy who the players look up to (and uses it to his advantage to sway players from splitting time in scouting to a full-time football commitment). A cup of coffee at the local diner might smooth out some wrinkles.

Betrayal? None. A good scouting program will benefit every scout, regardless of the reason why he showed up. Maybe the scout won't feel that way now, but in retrospect. I think alot of these kids who are forced into sports, scouting, etc., are just doing the best they can. Coping. What else are they going to do: turn down the money and stay home with fuming parents?

While I'm rambling a bit here, a thought about sports. Some folks like sports, others don't. I happen to like sports. For the folks that want to compete, I believe it is vital they do so at the highest level they can achieve, and for as long as they are able. Until they physically can't take the field, or the desire is gone or fulfilled, nothing else will be a suitable substitute for that drive to compete in their particular sport. I think it's important for scouters to realize this dynamic, and let the scout know their drive to excell will serve them well as a scout, and benefit the movement overall. Great role models. Same is true for those that pursue academic honors. Or both. We should never stifle that desire to achieve, be it in scouting or elsewhere. Basement, not suggesting that is the dynamic in the case at hand, but I've seen it elsewhere.

Basement, I hear ya. But long view is important. If the scout knows he's welcome back, he may very well show up at a scout meeting after football season is over. Or perhaps before the season is over. Did he feel overwhelmed by SPL responsibilities, school and football? Perhaps he felt scouting was the easiest to let go for awhile. Kudu: Your anti-SPL position has always confused me a bit. It seems like you, as an adult, are performing the duties that the SPL is supposed to do. True? PS Any time I hear an adult bash the SPL position, 9 times out of 10 that adult is really the "boss of the PLs."(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Porterman, call it a hunch, but I'm willing to bet you are an HSR staffer who is slightly bored and trying to generate a couple laughs. I'd recommend getting back to work. And if your program area isn't challenging enough, the camp director could always scurry up some additional tasks for you, like varnishing picnic tables, cleaning latrines, and such. (This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Barry, well said. The only way those shy, awkward scouts are going to achieve success to is by actual accomplishment. Stepping into the arena. Our duty as adults is to make sure that arena is the right forum, that right mix of challenge and safety, for the scout to succeed. Or, just as importantly, to fail. Too many scouters unwittingly validate, and thus solidify, scouts' fears--"Yep, Johnny Scout, the world is a big, difficult, scary place." My best memories as an ASM/SM are those moments when a scout conquered a task...the tough MB, qualifying at the range, learning to swim, speaking in public. You can actually see the moment the they realize "Hey, I can do this!" That newfound self confidence then extends to every area of their life. I think that's one of the best aspects of scouting. But they will only achieve if they step into the arena. They won't succeed if they are carrying a mental rucksack filled their parents' and scouters' fears, in addition to their own.

I recall a Saturday night meal, many years ago, where a couple patrols thought it would be cool to join forces to make a giant stew in one pot, ala slumgullion/hobo jungle. This can work if the ingredients are right. This night, not so much. You know things are off to a bad start when an entire box of bisquick is added, along with fish sticks (who the heck brings a box of frozen fish sticks on a campout anyway?), and a few sullen fish that were caught from a sullen lake nearby (southern AZ). And some other things I've thankfully forgotten. Quagmire. Inedible. Cement mix with fish flavor. Indigestible. Disgusting. And I was on the roster for KP that night. It was a long night, not only for completing KP, but going to bed extremely hungry. Today, I'm grateful the SM didn't stop us. He was a hard case on many things, like tents in perfect rows and military style open ranks. But he had the courage to bite his tongue on this caper. We second class scouts had alot of fun but learned an invaluable lesson. We took menu planning and cooking much more seriously in the future.

Jrush, excellent question! First and foremost, tabs are redundant. We wear a patch on our left arm that tells the world what we do for scouting. Be it the CSE, or a seasoned district guy/gal, or the newest ASM, there's a patch for each of us. So why tabs? What do they offer? If scouters are standing around drinking coffee, all wearing different colored tabs, what does it mean? That gold is better than silver? Silver better than blue? (In my opinion, the unit level colors are the most prestigious.) The tabs mean Nothing. Just foppery. As for the other items you mentioned, I can't help but remember that the BSA didn't have the US flag on the uniform till the late 60s/early 70s. I still recall the world crest being a very rare thing that folks earned at international encampments and then wore proudly. PS Jrush: Just reread your post and realized that I missed the mark on my response above. What I should have said instead of my screed was "You are right, I agree"(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

In the '70s, our SM had a standing pledge to give each new Eagle a Buck knife, the folding Ranger 112, very popular model at the time. No engraving, just a standard knife at off the shelf. I think I was just as proud to put that knife on my belt as I was to get Eagle. I understand how folks feel about a gift from the SM being unnecessary, given the time and energy that the SM commits to the program. I agree, and perhaps it would be nice for the Eagle to give the SM a gift instead. That said, I gotta wonder: would the new Eagle prefer something like a Buck knife given in a simple ceremony, or a big ceremony with solemn oaths and decrees, with a big binder on the back table containing 50 congratulations letters from dignitaries that don't know the new Eagle from Adam's house cat? Today's cottage industry of Eagle ceremonies and Eagle geegaws and Eagle congrats letters from all and sundry leaves me a little flat. I'll take the Buck knife any day. Just my thoughts. It's all up to the Eagle, the parents and the SM.

Short, I don't think I can add to your eloquent post, but will piggyback on something you mentioned.... I learned many positive things as a PL and SPL, but I also learned how to fail. Every aspect of failure. Including how to take it gracefully, review the game tape, and work like the dickens to prevent it from happening again in the future. Invaluable. "Building leaders:" looking back, you can see boy-led activities such as running the weekly troop meeting as an SPL, or being a new PL on a campout, were the ultimate leadership labs. Leadership can't be taught via sterile powerpoint slide shows and "team buiding" exercises in the camp mess hall. It happens on the trail, in the patrol camp site, at the troop meeting...life.

Kudos, Barry. Here's the thought process of many over protective/heloparents: "But he's only 2" "But he's only 4" "But he's only 8" Etc. Some day he'll be "only 18"...and is he ready for life? Scouting will definitely help him.

The best gift those Webelos could receive is a special dispensation to proceed directly to a scout troop and join as full fledged Boy Scouts. The cub program just goes on and on..... (This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Kudo's response is spot on--the requirements are designed to accomodate that route. Some Eagles hike to the mountain top, others take the escalator. He's going to be an Eagle. He'll grow into it.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

If you listen to scouts sharing their favorite memories, usually they involve some crazy thing that happened, a mishap they worked thru, getting caught in the sudden downpour on a hike, the breafast they incinerated and they starved till lunch, etc. And if an adult it mentioned, it's usually in the context of a personality quirk, type of hat, a favorite goofy campfire song.... Only later will they truly appreciate the role of their ASM/SM. For the scouts to grow, they've gotta go thru those tough times. In retrospect, they will better understand the balance the adults had as being responsible for their welfare, and being good examples, and at the same time, letting the scouts experience adventure. But that's the catch--only later will most realize it. That's as it should be.

Tabs, epaulets, loops...regardless of nomenclature, they are the single most useless item ever to be instituted on the BSA uniform, be they authorized or unauthorized. Pure vanity, the province of peacocks showing their plummage.

The kids that didn't go knew they didn't earn the ice cream. The insecurities, weaknesses, and timidity of certain adults (like the committee member) are routinely transfered to the kids. I view this as the biggest impediment to successful scouting. (This message has been edited by desertrat77)

About half way down the page on this link you'll find the following: "The items below are from Kent Blain who attended 36 days of JLT at Philmont in 1953. Included (L to R) below are compiled JLT Troop 31 notes, Troop 31 photo, survival hike log, JLT Parliamentary Procedures, Lord Baden-Powell letter and JLT poem." http://philmontdocs.watchu.org/other_documents.htm Here are the aforementioned troop notes http://philmontdocs.watchu.org/Docs/Other_Docs/JLT_Troop-31_1953.pdf This JLT was quite the course, it seems. Thirty six days long, at Philmont, in the form of a trek. Activities included a couple days in a survival scenario, signalling, shooting, and building a log cabin from scratch. Sounds like a great course!

I completely agree with Mr. Peck. Nothing like a bunch of self-entitled bores that think that their scout unit/district/council OR church/civic organization is their own private self-admiration society..."New People Will Not Accepted As Peers".... A quick path to obscurity. I think alot of people would like to be involved in scouting...but they don't want to be associated with the public perception of a scout leader. Or they tried to join and found themselves treated like second class citizens by The Old and Very Best Scouters.

SSScout, nicely done..... Between your definition here, and the comment in the flag thread about the little flag in the Mexican restaurant, you are on a roll!

As mentioned by Eagle732, I'll bet it's the generator...if the lantern is 20 years old and has the original generator, it's due for replacement. I love those old Coleman lanterns! Please keep us updated, I'm interested to see how it goes for you.