walk in the woods

So the short answer would seem to be yes, you'll need a YPT trained over 21 years old female registered leader present in either scenario. Not clear the scenario disappears after next year. Could be unregistered parent/guardian brings AOL son to Webelos campout/meeting, but, also brings Webelos or Bear daughter along (family friendly, yes?). That triggers the need for the registered female leadership.

I guess we'll see how it plays out. There are two sentences there that could be interpreted in different ways. So any unit serving females (girl pack, family pack, girl-only scout BSA unit, or co-ed Crew, Ship, or Post) must have a female adult registered leader. I agree this is unit specific. It's not clear to me that this statement is unit specific. If the registered female cub is at the activity it seems like it would trigger the adult female over 21 requirement. I suppose one could argue the tag-alongs aren't "involved" but that feels kinda weak to me.

The G2SS suggests otherwise: @DeanRx originally asked about a patrol meeting for an all boy unit. If one of the two required over 21 leaders brings his scouting daughter to the patrol meeting, doesn't that trigger the requirement for a third registered over 21 years old female leader? With regards to the info graphic previously posted, it came from the BSAs family scouting website (https://www.scouting.org/familyscouting/). The site very clearly engaged both Cubs and Boy Scouts. I suppose we'll know in a few years how it really plays out.

Maybe. The BSA uses the title Family Scouting to refer to all the changes implemented in Cubs now and Scouting BSA next February (https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Family-Scouting_Infographic_v10-1.pdf)

This is only true if there are two other registered over 21 years of age adults present. I think that's many people's protest. Back in the old days one registered leader and one parent was fine for YPT.

This encapsulates my biggest concerns with Scouting USA. In the old days we taught scouts that it was a virtue to lift his brothers burden or help those younger and weaker than himself. If this scenario had played out with the young man attempting to help a second young man, we'd applaud them both. One for offering help where he perceived it was needed and the second for accomplishing the task. However, in this quote, rather than celebrating both people, we see the first young man's values being mocked because the second person was female. Sorry @qwazse but if this attitude wins the field, the BSA's days are numbered. @T2Eagle, and with all due respect to Mrs. T2, how exactly can she tell the difference between a man who is just "being courteous" and a man who holds the door for her because he was taught that's how gentlemen behave (because it's the courteous thing to do)? Does she have some kind of ESP that she can use to determine the intention of the man holding the door? Similarly for ladies eat first, is she saying if the two of you are eating out and your food is delivered first, you should just dig in? Frankly, that would be just rude regardless of gender of the diners. We live in an interesting time where gentlemen are mocked, and, sought out.

REI Blog on gender inclusion in youth programs.

So to me it seems the primary issue here is the continuing separation of society from nature. People living in big cities, with limited skills, are being drawn to the woods. If you live in northern Illinois go to Starved Rock State Park on any given summer Saturday and you'll see the same thing. But, I'd argue it's not a technology problem or a nature problem, mostly it's a complacency problem. I get the opportunity to ride the Chicagoland metro every day for my commute. Every train platform has bright yellow lines on the deck, most have two feet or so of bright yellow deck plate running along the edge of the platform. There are announcements and signs to stay behind the yellow line for your safety. But as soon as the train warning bells are heard or an arrival announcement is made, there will be at least a couple of people who walk out to the edge of the platform and stick their head out to see if the train is really coming. You see the same thing around at-grade railroad crossing. Big signs, bells, bright flashing red lights, people drive around anyway. Same for the 20-something man or woman racing down the highway at 100 mph weaving in and out of traffic. The odds they have the skills to drive like that are indistinguishable from zero. I write all that to say people are complacent in familiar environments and no amount of warning signs will make a difference. So we get to the "fixes" put in place at this park. Building a stair case for example. We already know the risk takers will continue to take the risks, climb over the railings, etc. The fixes might make thing more dangerous for them. I have to wonder how many people came up to the base of those falls before the fix, saw the climb, and turned away thinking it wasn't worth the risk. But now, with a shiny new stair case, will those same people, who still have no business climbing up, make a different decision? Will they be lulled into a sense of complacency because of the familiar stair case and hand rail?

The short answer is of course yes, you can give as little or as much of your time as you want to scouting. It's not indentured servitude. Others will either step up or not, but, that's on them, not you.

I told my parents about the squirt gun ban. When they picked themselves up off the ground from laughing, they happily filled their kids and their own supersoakers and had a rollicking good time. But, the BSAs credibility took a hit. Same thing happens when units openly ignore the membership standards.

It's easy to agree with the actions when you agree with the cause. My cause is overturning the ridiculously stupid rules in the G2SS about squirt guns, laser tag, and paintball, because my scouts are fully mature enough to understand the difference between a firearm and a toy, even if BSA National isn't. My CO and parents are fully onboard with my unit going to laser tag in full uniform and tells the council where to put their stupid rules. You'd support it because the position is well thought out, it's a faithful deployment of the program (e.g. building patrol esprit de corps), and my CO/parents are onboard?

Just for clarity, I believe the swimming requirements are a net asset to advancement. Like @thrifty I spent a bunch of money on rec center memberships and private swimming lessons for my son with autism so he could learn to swim. We also endured the pain and struggle that his autism caused in the process (we starting with splashing water on his face because he couldn't bear the sensation of it). I have very old and faded swimming, lifesaving, and mile swim badges in a box somewhere. But, that has no bearing on my response to the OP. Call me a cynic but we all know that as long as the troop in question is making it's annual registration payment and maybe kicking in a little to FOS/Popcorn, the district, council and national aren't going to do a damn thing about it. The same way they aren't going to do anything to units that publicly announce they are running co-ed scouting in contravention of the program, or units that camp their cub scouts in non-approved campgrounds, or play lazer tag or paintball or use squirt guns, etc. Other than YPT issues the PTB aren't going to drop a charter of a unit that's paying. My question to the OP is simple, is it worth the pain and hassle to bang your head against that wall? As for the boys in other units, they have a choice. They can be demoralized that somebody else got to skate, or, they can take pride in a job well done (and feel some sense of sadness/pity for their less fortunate brothers). If we are in fact teaching character they'll choose the latter. If we're worried about equality of outcome or fairness or some such stuff they'll choose the former.

I suppose the question is what do you hope to accomplish by "saying something?" Do you want the SM defrocked? Troop charter suspended? Force boys to go back in rank? Even if the DE or other VIP says something are they going to send representatives to enforce swim checks? Are you going to go hold swim checks for this unit? Is there a safety issue for that unit if they don't do any water activities? Be sure you've evaluated your own motives before creating a s*** storm.

#freeross

My DE sent an email regarding the "information floating around", disavowed them, then said a revision was coming to the G2SS

That horse has already left the barn.

Maybe. The OA has already set the equivalencies for induction and past camping experience counts (https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/05/23/order-of-the-arrow-to-open-unit-elections-to-scouts-bsa-venturing-and-sea-scouts/. If Discovery is equivalent to First Class, then it wont' take much in the way of mental gymnastics to say Pathfinder is the equivalent of Star or Life.

5:00 mark-ish: Venturing is our older youth program 16 to 21 year olds 5:40 mark-ish: Boy patrols and girl patrols And the ever present snarky remark about boys..... My daughter has been to more scout camps that most Eagle scouts Anyway, as to the question. Even though the kickoff of girls in Cub Scouts was June 11, my council decided to wait until the fall recruiting drive in Sept. They've also said an existing pack can't accept less than 5 girls. So the couple we had interested in joining this summer have decided to stay with GSUSA and the unit has decided not to recruit in competition with GSUSA.

The last column is headed Older Scouts, Venturers and Sea Scouts, but, large bore, centerfire, and pistols are only venturing and sea scouts. Does that mean 16 year old boy scouts can no longer take advantage of the shooting programs at the Summit? http://www.summitbsa.org/programs/national-high-adventure-base/focused-programs/the-marksman/

This made me laugh:

Wise choice. The walnuts make excellent projectiles, especially after they've seasoned just a bit on the ground!

😲Like for family nights or just in general?

LIkely only tangential, but, curious. I went to FB to see what the discussion looked like there. At the top of the OA page is a video called the Original Induction Experience. Foreshadowing perhaps or just part of NOAC? Maybe both?

Thank you but no apology is necessary.

Good news is the new script highlights the high adventure bases! 🤑