walk in the woods

that list is very long if you go back to my time in scouts, but, you asked for this to be an optimistic thread about the future of the BSA, not me defending the past.

Share your vision then. Why are you optimistic? What am i missing? Why will the new BSA be better? I just rechartered as a UC for the next year. Why should i be excited?

I'm not sure I give the BSA much credit for taking the high road. In my mind the high road would have sounded something like this: "We understand there has been concern in the press and social media about the availability of condoms and alcohol at the upcoming World Scout Jamboree in West Virginia. We'd like to explain the situation and set the record straight." No need to mention TLUSA (kind of like political candidates never mentioning their opponents name), no need to state anything but the facts. And the opportunity to stand up and say, Yes, we agree with these requirements from the WOSM. That would have been refreshing and honest.

I would encourage the folks who believe the most recent change in the BSA is a good thing to offer me their vision of the future of the BSA. I can't see it from where I sit. Change my mind!

@gblotter, it occurs to me that my previous answer was a bit rambling and unsatisfactory. I do believe the membership losses will be greater than just the LDS and will reverberate beyond the intermountain west. The LDS church was the counter-balance to the forces fighting for change. I suspect the Church was instrumental in local option decisions that were handed down in 2013 and 2015 (even though snubbed by the BSA on the latter decision). The Church, I think allowed non-LDS scouters some hope for stability in a live and let live program. With the Church's departure, there is no longer a counter-balance to keep the BSA from barreling head long down the progressive path. The hope for that live and let live program is dead. And, I think the possibility of a new counter-balance (say the Catholic Church) arising is probably also dead. That it has been the desire of the BSA leadership to move in a progressive direction has been clear for some time, but the pace will only accelerate after December 31, 2018 and probably sooner. So, yes, I think a number of long-time, scouters, who stayed in the program through the changes for their boys, will see the LDS departure as their permission to close up shop for the next generation to take over the BSA. Maybe it will be a glorious revival for the BSA. Maybe the BSA will recruit a million girls and enough new leaders to fill every position twice. I hope that's so. But I fear the BSA that was such an important part of my youth is irrevocably changed and not to the benefit of boys.

Fear is probably the closer emotion. My scenario is 80% membership loss and FOS loss drives consolidation. Which drives cost cuts which drives service reductions. Community units get less attention. Their favorite camps get sold. Attitudes wane. The LDS subsidized scouting from AS to ID. I don't see a replacement. IDK what the critical mass is but it's not clear to me that any council easily survives even a 10 or 15% immediate membership drop. Beyond that I think conservatives in the vast red middle of the country will check out. Not immediately but in a couple years. The old guard will slowly retire which isnt a bad thing neccessarily but i have limited confidence a new guard will arise. I was SM for a rural troop. My boys found the BSA restrictions on rifle ranges, ATVs, laser tag et. al. absurd. They already did all those things with their dad or uncle or on their own or with a church youth group. How am I supposed to explain to a kid whose been farming for 4 years he can't drive a tractor at a conclave or run a log splitter because he's only 17 and untrained? I expect more of these kinds of things moving forward and decreased relevance for BSA, especially if they start down the ISP trail. The tipping poi t for boys will be way lower than for scouters.

New uniforms, Venturers and Sea Scouts in the OA are both program changes. Changes to two deep is a program change. The military has different PT requirements for men and women so expect changes to Personal Fitness MB and Tenderfoot requirements. Family Life MB used to have a requirement to discuss with your counselor what it means to be a good father. That will change. Rumors of the OA dropping NA regalia will be a program change. New magazine name is a program change. But the program is more than rank and badge requirements and logistics. The program is made by all the intangibles of a single-gender environment and all that will end.

Maybe but the odds of the BSA rolling back any of the recent changes is less than zero. I'll just close my wallet, focus on my unit gor now, and see what happens.

Maybe, but it takes real courage to wear one of these in public :).

I didn't mean to imply blame on the LDS departure. I'm just thinking it will trigger a lack of critical mass in the intermountain west that will be larger than expected.

It's still buried in a box o' memorabilia somewhere.

Eagle in 79 (started scouts in 74) but I did have camping, swimming and lifesaving MB so, you know, don't judge me too harshly :).

Agreed. I didn't word that section very well.

Interesting, 10-year treasuries had a 2% yield in March 2012, just over 3% today. Even if we can refinance those bonds the principal/interest payments bump up fairly dramatically.

I think this is it, https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1176886.html

Well, I start with this observation. Since the whole girls in scouting "conversation" started about this time last year, we've been consistently told we don't need to change because we have what families want. If we have what families want, why would the BSA look any different in few years than it does today? @gblotter, I don't see an eminent bankruptcy from the LDS departure, however, membership fees will rise from $33/person to $40/person and unit insurance/recharter fees will rise from $40/unit to $50/unit. That will happen with the recharters this fall so the BSA can bank a little cash while they hope for membership gains in 2019. If membership gains aren't realized they'll be raised again the following year. The loss of FOS contributions will hollow out the intermountain west resulting in camp sales, layoffs, and consolidations. Unfortunately the vortex created by the LDS departure will also damage community units due to loss of critical mass for resources. @gblotter is absolutely correct that the OA will lose the NA trappings and probably the name as it won't make sense across Venturing, Boy Scouting and Sea Scouting. The Ordeal will become a quaint bit of scouting history, as will the free labor and extra dues generated. However, now that the OA has set the precedent for First Class equivalencies, a path to Eagle will be created for Venturing (basically allowing them to work on Star Life and Eagle) and Sea Scouts. Sea Scouts will ignore it but they may get some Venturers to work on Eagle especially if they don't have to join a Troop. Once that boundary is crossed Scouting BSA will quickly become the middle school program (11 - 14 year olds). The fully co-ed option is a foregone conclusion. I doubt it will be mandatory for several years but it will be an option by this time next year at the very latest. Wouldn't surprise me to see the announcement after the fall National Council/Board whatever meeting. The third G will fall next year as well. Local option of course but Reverent will become Spiritual or something new age-y like that. @FireStone's description of Creek Stewart succinctly captures the battle for the soul of the BSA. The Cynic in me says Creek hasn't been more fully utilized, a la Bear Grylls, because the BSA leadership has exactly the same thought. Creek's easy outdoor nature and "medicine man vibe" plays well with parents and boys in Peoria, but not so well in NYC or SF or LA or CHI. The LDS departure vortex may spread into the non-urban central parts of the nation before the damage is finished. I'm a survivor of the ISP. Luckily I had a SM who ignored National's direction. Modernized programs, simplified uniforms (don't want to look military), non-traditional badges (have to appeal to all the youth we don't serve) and activities (the outdoors is nice but there's lots of other activities). It's deja vu all over again. But I suspect you're right we'll head down that path again.

IDK. Seems legit on the surface. Point is, I hear the "We need someone like Bear" comment all the time. This guy has been engaged for years. I don't know if he limits his exposure to the BSA or the BSA is terrible at marketing, or both.

His name is Creek Stewart. He's been associated with the BSA at least informally for years.

apparently it's all Trail Life's fault now, https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/blog/clarifying-misinformation-about-2019-world-scout-jamboree-policies/

Actually, the ACLU won initially but lost on Appeal as I understand it. https://www.aclu.org/news/prominent-chicago-religious-leaders-applaud-court-order-ending-pentagons-special-funding-boy

Well, that and they were sued by the ACLU and others because of their support for the BSA Jamboree.

What FB page? There's nothing I can see at the BSA page.

Maybe the Sea Scouts will use a pirate theme. They could have plank walking or keel hauling. It'll be great! Or maybe just borrow the Navy's crossing the line ceremony. The possibilities are endless!

Get on board with the new order Scouter or you'll end up in reeducation summer camp!

Thanks!