acco40

Our district specifically states that K "grads" who resgister as Tigers CAN go to summer (day) camp. Eaglewings - are you going to have trouble with your son explaining that he may wear a blue shirt instead of an orange one?

Our district encourages kindergarteners to sign up for Tigers (Cub Scouts), regardless of age, in the Spring so that they can enjoy summer camp activities. Now, since Boy Scouts (and Cub Scouts) is not only an age based program but a grade based program the question of when a boy transistions from grade A to grade B is a common question. I was told by the registrar in our district that the national council (Irving) considers June 1st as the transistion date. Therefore, a boy currently in Kindergarten, can join the Cub Scout program after June 1.

Angadir, what I believe you do not understand is that it is not within your power to "require" a shirt or to "not to require the full scout uniform." The BSA takes care of that in the program YOU signed up to deliver. The BSA uniform is what it is. The uniform (or uniforming?) is one of the eight methods of Scouting. A uniform is not a requirement. We do not have the power, as Scouters, to change that fact.

Wake up people! How many National Jamborees has the BSA held post 9-11? Answer, none! Where is the Jamboree being held? At a military base! What will be the security situation in the summer of 2005? Yellow? Orange? Red? It is anyones guess. Now days, not too many military bases allow "visitors." My council will not approve tour permits within 250 miles of the Jamboree during that week. I'm paying for two boys plus myself so I'll be set back a cool $3000 plus not including new uniforms, gear, etc. But heck, I've got close to 18 months or more to prepare for it. If I can't budget about $6 a day ($2 per person) I don't qualify as "thrifty." If one would like to go to the Jamboree, volunteer as staff or sign up! I admit, I'm not to keen on visitors.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Is the SPL named Bush and the ASPL named Cheney? Sorry, could not resist. What are the duties of the ASPL? Does the ASPL know what they are? It seems to me that his duties with respect to training and supervising the Troop Scribe, Quartermaster, Instructor, Librarian, Historian, and Chaplain Aide would keep him busy. I agree with others about trying to work with the SPL (as SM) but if he does step down, one of the duties of the ASPL is to serve as SPL in his absence. I would not hold another election. However, I'd do my best to make sure that a coup d'etat did not take place! (This message has been edited by acco40)

Another example of legislatures (legislators?) with too much time on their hands.

Eamonn, you are showing your age. Rules are meant to be broken! First of all, the baby boomers, those born "immediately" after the service men (and women) returned home from WWII (technically from 1946 - 1964 as defined by some). It defined a large segment of the population. Only later on did revisionist historians try to generalize attributes to those who were a member of that generation (technically, not a generation, for one definition of a generation is defined as ten years). Yes, I'm a boomer (b. 1956) and remember Nam, Beatles on Ed Sullivan, Chicago, Kennedy shot, King shot, Kennedy shot, Nixon resign, Hendrix dead, Joplin dead, Lennon shot, ... I've also seen the term conservative used in the pejorative (mid 60s to mid 70s) and now the same for the term liberal. I've seen rules such as the draft, no "colored" allowed, poll taxes, bans on inter-racial marriage, draconian drug laws, and yes even the sexual position laws stated by FOG go by the way side. I have no problem with those who break rules for a purpose. Those individuals just need to learn to accept the consequences that come with breaking the rules. Sometimes that means intense suffering. Other times, the rule is removed. The vast majority of the "rules" that society has in place are there for a purpose. Baby boomers don't question rules more that others, youth questions rules. Baby boomers were once young and by sheer numbers, they questioned authority. That is natural. Now, I do agree with you that many of the youth (and adults) question some of the "rules" in Scouting such as uniforming, safety (laser tag, etc.). We (Scouters) are in a unique position. We have promised to deliver the Scouting program. We really don't have the option of picking and choosing, smrgsbord style, what parts we want to follow.

Laurie, it is called an "editorial." Bush is either, "saving our American way of life" or "indiscriminately butchering innocent Iraqis in his mad conquest to stamp his values on the Arab world." To many, these are bald face lies. to others, the gospel truth. The BSA is fighting legal battles on many fronts that involve money. Both sides hide behind a cloak of high moral values. What the BSA did was allow an article written by one individual, Mark Pulliam (gasp, a lawyer but also a Scouter) to be posted on their web site. Like most court cases, there is a legal battle, but just as important, there is also a battle for public opinion. As for myself, I found the article a typical "preaching to the choir" type statement. The crux of the article: "Judge Jones' ruling rests on the premise that the Boy Scouts -- solely because of their belief in God -- is a "religious organization," and that by allowing the Scouts to lease city-owned land it is therefore "advancing religion" and "religious indoctrination. On this basis, Judge Jones concluded that the lease is invalid and the Scouts must be evicted, despite the fact that the Boy Scouts invested millions of dollars in capital improvements." is stated without much bias. The remainder of the article is, as you pointed out, filled with opinion and yes is not very scout-like in my estimation. Politics will to that to many.

I am privileged to have a medical professional as an SA on our troop. When he instructs first aid, either as a MB counselor, or for rank requirements, he is very careful to teach using the BSA resources. That is, even if he has better information, he sticks to what the BSA states in their reference material. If he can add to or enhance that information with more of his own, he may do so. However, he tries hard to never add information that conflicts with the BSA. Again, these Scouts will not be performing radical surgery or running a large scale triage center in the immediate future. What they may do, albeit on very rare occasions, is be put in a position to administer first aid. That being said, I would be very hesitant to interrupt one of the adults while he/she was giving any type of instruction to the youth. Yes we are all amateurs with respect to Scouting (at least in the unit positions) but some professional courtesy should be shown amongst the voluteers. If I felt one of the SAs or volunteer adult instructors was giving the boys incorrect information, I would handle the situation after teh meeting with the adults in question.(This message has been edited by acco40)

And just like water ... Now people pay big bucks for it from a bottle and it used to be relatively free from the tap. When I was a youth, we played and infinite amount of games amongst the neighborhood youth, no adults involved. It only cost us (or for the lucky ones, their parents) a few broken windows. Now, for my children, every sporting event requires transportation, league fees, referees / umpires / linesmen, complete uniforms, trophys, etc. It is so formalized. A year ago, we had a wall climbing / rappeling event for our troop meeting. Most of the boys participated. One set of parents did not want their sons participating because they may not be able to do it as well as the other boys. That is the problem I see today. Many parents shelter their children from failure to an extreme. Everyone has to have maximum "esteem" and feel good. The problem is when that child becomes an adult in the real world and experiences failure for the first time, they don't know how to deal with it. Some of the Tiger Cubs can't handle the "loss" at a Pinewood derby. It is a learning experience for them. It is much better to learn about failure in a controlled environment like Scouting at a young age than to experience it for the first time at college or on the job and not have a clue how to deal with it. I've seen so many 20 somethings here at work that can't accept responsibility. Nothing is ever their fault. Someone or something else is always to blame. Boy, don't I sound like a cranky old codger!

Most boys turn EVERYTHING into a competition. I recently chaperoned a group of 8th graders on a trip to Chicago. The boys and gals spent time in the hotel pool on Friday night. At this age (13-14) the sexes still keep somewhat separate. The girls all strutted around showing off the newly acquired "curves" and the boys were mostly oblivious and engaging is a competition of who could hold their breath the longest underwater. Ah, to be 13 again! Competition can work wonders. Effort should also be rewarded. In Cubs, DO YOUR BEST, is rightly emphasized. On my honor, I will DO MY BEST, ... That is the goal. Winning is not the real goal but competition does help many to really strive to do thier best. Some need competition to get them to do their best, some do not but for a very small minority competition hinders them from doing their best.

It isn't the committee's decision, it is a decision for the CO to make. The troop committee may make a suggestion to the CO via the IH or COR but the decision on who the leaders of the unit are rest with the charter organization.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Guys (and Gals), You forget what the BSA yells at the top of their lungs for all to hear, "We are a private organization and can put restrictions on who we want to associate with." No less an authority than BW can back me up on this. A unit's CO can ban righthanded Lithuanians who eat fish from all troop meetings that fall on odd days during months that end in "y" if they wish. Is it reasonable? That is debatable. If you don't like them apples go form your own group!! And (I'm on a roll now), if you don't agree with the "Lithuanian rule" and still stay in Scouting you are one big hypocrite that has no moral backbone! Now where have I heard that before? (Yes, the above was typed with my tongue firmly in cheek.)(This message has been edited by acco40)

OneHour, some commonly make the mistake of thinking that Tenderfoot is NOT the first Boy Scout rank that can be earned. It is. The "Scout" badge is not a rank. Try filling our an advancement report for a boy that earns the Scout badge.

I am proud to say that I live in the only county in the USA that has brought charges and arrested individuals for violating the new federal anti-spamming laws. see: http://www.detnews.com/2004/technology/0404/29/a01-137416.htm

I see boys who earned a rank badge (and they know exactly where it goes!) and three months later it still is not on their shirt. When asked, the usual answer is "My mom hasn't had a chance to sew it on yet." Don't get me started!

Eagle projects are leadership projects, NOT landscaping projects, craftsmenship projects, etc. I've seen too many who view it as a "build something" project. While all are worthy goals, not all provide leadership training.

I didn't know the S/W has been around that long. What hardware did it run on so long ago? Seriously, we lost a wonderful Scouter in our council last week. She was serving as Scoutmaster and had been for about five years. I'd use the event as a teaching moment for the boys. BW, a very nice and touching ceremony. One thing to consider is if the SM had a son in the troop. If not, I would not change a thing. If so, I consult with his mother or another adult close to the child and make sure they are aware of your plans.

Just don't let those who would benefit from a uniform change sit on the review board! For example, changing the uniform, reqgardless of the change, would benefit clothing manufacturers. Maybe my age is showing, but the older I get, the less I embrace change as inherently "good."

Getting back to the uniform ... My biggest beef with the uniform is that the collars on my shirt last about one year at best. The collars "pill-up" and look like hell. The rest of the shirt looks great. Now, I've looked at other individuals shirts and the problem does not seem universal. My wife blames it on my beard. her postulation is that my beard rubs against the collar. I do sport a rather short chin warmer (goatee?). I shave daily (except on some outings) so I really don't know the cause. Anyhoo, regardless of the "style" what I perceive to be inferior material doesn't make the uniform look very good. I do wear the shirt with the top button open (i.e. the "proper" way) and usually with the neckerchief under the collar. I prefer over the collar but the vast majority of our unit prefers the under and I believe uniformity trumps personal desire. For those who may be interested (from http://histclo.hispeed.com/youth/scout.html): Scout Uniforms Early years Given the Baden-Powell's role in the Scout movement, the original English Scout uniforms had a decidedly military look--although the Scouts were in many ways less militarized than the Boys' Brigade. The early American Scout uniform followed the English example. The English and some Europeans have given great attention to the uniform, more so than in the more easy growing United States and many other counties. Uniform inspections have been more common in England. At events such as Scout Band competitions, the inspections can be quite rigorous. The English tend to have a stricter national standard. When the English Scout movement decided to shift to long pants in 1969, virtually all troops followed suit. In American, Scouting is much more identified with outdoor events where uniform standards were less rigorous. In addition, individual councils and even troops are allowed considerable leeway on how to wear the uniform and over the year a great diversity of hats, kerchiefs, knickers, long and short pants, can be observed at Cub and Scout groups. Current trends Over the years the Scout uniform in different transformed in to more suitable field uniform. Scout leaders in each country adopting the movement made a variety of changes, incorporating elements of national dress. Special uniforms were developed for the younger Cub Scouts as well as Sea Scouts and groups for older Scouts, such as the Explorers in the United States. Today younger Scouts very much like their uniforms and older Scouts in America tolerate them. Many European Scouts have virtually abandoned their uniforms. American uniform The American Scout uniform has been markedly changed [except the Sea Scouts] three times since 1910, each time becoming somewhat more European. The last time was in 1980, ostensibly being redesigned by Oscar de la Renta, who produced something curiously resembling a French uniform of about 1960. The Girl Scouts (a separate and smaller organization) in America change their uniforms much more often and allow for individual choices amounting to fashion statements. They are also less strict about their use. Fashion impact The Scout movement which developed before World War I had a significant impact on boys' fashions. The short pants introduced as part of the uniform were to dominate boys' clothing in Europe for five decades. The shorts proved less popular in America where most Scouts wore knickers.

I don't understand why size makes the "correct number of folds" change. Folding in half still takes one fold regardless of size.

We have two 15 yr olds in our troop who take great pains never to be seen in their uniform outside of BSA activities. They are so worried about their "image" they hide the fact that they are scouts to their peers as much as they can. I feel sorry for them. I posted this earlier but I'll repeat thefollowing responses I received from the 2nd and 3rd year boys in our troop: Why do you think boys join the Boy Scouts? 1. To have fun and learn about cool things and camping. 2. I think that boys join to go camping. 3. To have fun! 4. To have fun. 5. To have fun and learn stuff. 6. To have fun with their friends and have good life experiences. 7. To get Eagle. 8. Blank. 9. To have fun. 10. To have fun. 11. To have fun. 12. Because its fun.

Yes, the COR is a member of the committee and a committee member (same thing) and may participate in boards of review for all (except his own son). Now, you may think that because he/she doesn't attend any committee meetings he is not a committee member. Wrong! They are a comittee member because they are registered as such by the BSA.

Guys, it is in the best interest of the BSA NOT to have a President endorse it. Think about it. Take off your ideological blinders. The BSA has maintained the stance that it is a private organization. The President should not endorse a private organization. Did Reagan endorse GM? Did Carter endorse Apple? Did Clinton endorse El Producto cigars? Congress should not charter a private organization. Tax dollars should not fund a private organization (no Chrysler references please). If the President is going to endorse corporations, stick to public organizations such as the Red Cross. The more a sitting President endorses the BSA, the more a court will view it as a public corporation.

I whole heartedly agree with BW on this one. We signed up to deliver a specific program and we should do it. Just like us adults who elect ("fill in miserable bum of your choice here") we need to learn from our mistakes.