Deloe

"A person's beliefs are not a choice? Are we pre-programmed? Don't people change their views?" No, beliefs are not a choice. A person's height changes, too, but that's not a choice. I wouldn't say that we are "pre-programmed", but our beliefs are part of who we are, and we can't choose who we are (because what we choose is part of who we are, and if we could choose that, that would be circular). "I'm sorry, but if I feel I'm right about something, I'm going to fight back." You seem to be missing the most important word. I even put in in all caps: "automatically". I asked "[W]hy a

Eamonn: Your first post was worded impolitely, and it was followed even ruder posts by other posters. It is no surprise that Merlyn would take offense at these posts. And you conclude that Merlyn is a troll? And I wouldn't characterize my position on faith-based programs as "unsure". I am quite sure these are questionable at best. I did qualify the claim that no non-Christian groups have received any money, because I have not personally verified this, and I am open to the possibility that I have received incorrect information (a quality that I apparently share with very few members of

Bob White: Perhaps you should check out what this site has to say about "celibate": http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=celibate "The existence or absence of sexual activity is irrelevant for membership in the BSA." Huh? Surely if someone engages in homosexual activity, that would result in expulsion. And if this is really about "morality", not about bigotry, surely they would kick out fornicators as well. I mean, on what basis would they not allow an avowed homosexual, but allow an avowed fornicator? "The condition is that if you are an avowed atheist or homosexual you cannot

Herms, I can't understand how anyone can say either is a choice. We can only choose our actions. We cannot choose our beliefs, or our desires. You might as well claim that being short is a choice. Eamonn: I'm not sure what you mean by "born homosexual". Do you mean "come out the womb sexually atracted to the same sex"? Then no. Do you mean "inherently different from heterosexuals"? I think that is self-evident. Have you ever been tempted to be homosexual? Homosexuals have. So unless you have, that's a difference between you and them. I don't understand how anyone can think ho

I'd ask FOG whether he considers calling atheists liars to be an insult, but he'd probably just duck the question like usual. Laurie: The fact is, the BSA is dominated by Christians. While there are non-Christians, there a quite small percentage.

Trail Pounder, I've got some news for you: EVERYONE is born an atheist! It's the natural state of humanity. There are also 11 year old homosexuals, and neither is a choice.

whitewater: I haven't seen Merlyn say the sort of things you claim. But I haven't read every thread. So let's just say, for the sake of argument, that Merlyn hates the BSA and wants it to be destroyed. So what? FOG did not direct his attacks to Merlyn specifically, he directed them to atheists in general. If FOG is justified in judging all atheists based on Merlyn, then Merlyn is justified in judging all Scouts based on FOG. Big_Dog: I think that what you missed is that Eamonn started a thread ASKING atheists for their views. If someone on a planned parenthood forum asked what P

FOG: Again Dee-low shows how little he know of the real world. Quite often the women's rest room has sofas and comfy chairs and carpeting. Men's room's have ceramic fixtures. Hmm, I wonder where your knowledge of womens bathrooms come from. I rather doubt that is the norm, but I dont need to know enough to investigate myself. However, a more important measure would be time spent waiting in line for use of the bathroom, and here women are the clear losers. Don't atheists choose to not believe in a supreme being? No. Whitewater Are you suggesting that it's not proper to fight

While I dont endorse everything that Merlyn has said, and certainly not how he said it, his basic point is sound. Bob White, you made a claim which Merlyn disputed. Instead of attempting a substantial rebuttal, you defended your claim on the basis that you dont know for certain that it is false. I mean, come on. THATS your defense? Your claim MIGHT be true? On that basis, I would be completely justified in calling you a murderer. I mean, I dont know for sure that you arent. When you say that the BSA does not take public money, the natural interpretation is I know that the BSA does not

Perhaps you could explain how not wanting to have one's tax money support an organization constitutes "having it in" for that organization. And from what I've heard, in these "faith-based initiatives", "faith" exclusively refers to "Christian". And Bush has said that he will look FIRST to faith-based initiatives. So, yes, I do oppose this as well.

And once again FOG shows that he's not interested in having a mature discussion. Making lame puns out of other people's names, blaming the victim (apparently if someone is offended, it's because they are "looking" for offense), acttacking me for imaginary offenses (making up hypothetical food procurement situations, and telling me what I would do), and making fun of other people's misery. That's what passes for argument in FOG-land.

FOG: Separate but equal? Didn't work for education or bathrooms, did it? Oh, I guess that's okay because it discriminates against men. Men are not being discriminated against; if anything, its the women that are. But I dont think theres much chance of discussing this rationally with you. You still refuse to tell me whats wrong with my explanation. Why couldn't I join the French club? I don't speak French. Duh! And didnt you CHOOSE not to learn French? Whitewater: The fact that the BSA is singled out, when there examples of similar lease arrangements, supports my contention

Seems to me that an incredibly important point is being completely ignored here. Read the first paragraph again: "After his 6-year-old son started attending school in Portland this fall, David Hilton discovered that being a parent these days means sorting through all the papers that get stuffed into children's backpacks at school." I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the school probably does not supply its students with backpacks. No, I'm pretty sure that backpack was bought by David Hilton. Which means that he owns it. It's his. He can make whatever rules regarding its us

I don't understand your title; I don't see that the ACLU has done anything other than offer their opinion of the case to a reporter. I also don't understand the tone of the title; do you approve of courts ignoring the Supreme Court? Seems to me "Enemies of the Constitution strike again" would be a more proper title.

FOG: "Interesting concept, a troll calling me a troll. I've made over 2,000 postings over the past year and you show up to start a rhubarb and call me a troll. If you were a man I'd be offended." I don't see any basis for you to call me a troll, now do I see how 2,000 posts gives you license to engage in the sort of dishonesty you have exhibited in this thread. You claimed that only outsiders were complaining, and you continued to do so even after I had explained that you were in error. You now say that there is something wrong with my explanation, but refuse to say what. Now if I in er