acco40

What one, or an organization, can do and what they/it does do are two different things. No less the expert than our former President, William Jefferson Clinton stated that the reason he "did" Monica was because he could. He also stated that it was a lousy reason and decision on his part. As many state, the BSA can remove volunteers. The risk is making "martyrs" out of these volunteers. I think that the SEs, National Council, etc. should give other volunteers and the general public more credit than they currently do. If a volunteer is critical of an official BSA decision (not policy but a decision like selling off council property), I think it would be very low to try and "muzzle" that individual by membership revocation. On the flip side, there are improper ways and proper ways to make ones views heard. In the council where I am a member (my council - for the majority of you), there was talk of selling off one of our camp properties. It was about 45 years old and at one time in the middle of nowhere. Now, it is surrounded by the outer edges of suburban sprawl and the land value alone is worth much more than 10 times the original value of the property and buildings on it. There was much debate about the issue. One of the reasons for selling was that the property taxes alone were more than the funds that the camp brought in from fees. After bitter debate, the camp was not closed. It was only after a few years that I learned from the Program Director that due to our state laws, the council pays no property tax on the camp at all! To my knowledge, no volunteers had their memberships revoked.

Heaven's to Betsy and tsk tsk. What should the BSA do about pre-pubescent boys? They are neither heterosexual nor homosexual. Do we dare risk allowing these possible "pre-sinners" to associate with our "traditional valued" youth? I says we should keep all boys out of Scouting until they are sexually mature and can distinctly declare themselves to be red-blooded, traditional valued, morally (ahem, I mean sexually) straight males. Then, we rush them through from Tiger to Eagle in a two year span!

Our troop has had a 12 yr old SPL. Age is not the issue. I have a few questions. First, you mention you nominated this boy. I'm not familiar with a party system in Scouts. In our troop, if an individual decides to run for "office", he runs. Second, I know many troops determine an ASPL by many different means. However, the SPL should pick his own ASPL. The ASPL should not be "elected." Can you imagine what would have happened if Al Gore became the VP because he lost a close election to George Bush? (Well maybe we'd have another 1000 American and 20,000 Iraqi lives to deal with.) You are in a tough spot. As a Jr SA, you must have access to The SM Handbook. Read it. Follow it. Good luck!(This message has been edited by acco40)

How religion (and patriotism) got shoe horned into athletic competition has always mystified me. Like the old joke, "What are the last two words of the national anthem? - Play ball!" I am in Fuzzy Bear's (I can't get Sesame Street out of my head!) corner on this one. Prayer does not need to be verbal or "group think" in a public setting.

Romeo and Juliet were not "star crossed lovers" of age 20 and 21. As recent as my mother's generation (b. 1925) females went from little girls to ladies. Yes there was always a transition time. But now, what responsibilites do we give to 13 - 17 year olds? (I'm generalizing here so bear with me.) We don't expect them to be having sex, much less children or become married. We don't expect them to work full time. To young for the military or to vote. They live at home. For most, they are expected to "get educated" in a formal fashion (i.e. go to school!) and not much else. The beauty of Scouting is it provides and opportunity in a controlled safe environment to learn teamwork, leadership, citizenship, character, etc. for this age group. I firmly believe if we expect more out of our youth, they can and usually do, deliver.

Some not so great Scouts (always pitch in to help, show up on time, advance regularly, etc.) make lousy leaders. Some not so great Scouts make excellent leaders. Your troop seems to have made the same mistake many corporation do! It chose a leader based on non-leadership skills. The first hint that I saw was this - "was asked to run and he agreeded." If the idea to run was not the Scouts, he may have felt deep down that he was not ready but did not want to disappoint and so he accepted the role that his leadership wanted him to take, i.e. he demonstrated he was a good follower. I've seen some boys act in this manner if they are thrust into a position that deep down they do not want, i.e he feels mom, dad, or others "roped" him into his present role. Now that the "damage" is done, what to do. As previously stated, leadership and safety are two different things. The adults should not let safety be an issue. Beating with a chair is not a good sign; same with pushing and shoving. These will have to be dealt with firmly and promptly. As for leadership, who did this individual pick as his ASPL? Do they get along? Do they work in harmony. The SPL and Scoutmaster need to have a very close and respectful relationship. The SM and SPL have much work to do. As for the remainder of the troop - they boys are learning a valuable lesson about picking your their leaders! It does have a big impact on them and should be carried out with extreme caution - something many adluts have not learned about our election process (witness a voting record of uner 50%!).

Nicknames are strange beasts - you can't really give yourself one. Many are not complementary. Some individuals take great offense to being identified via a nick name. Some take great pride in it. I generally abide by the BSA "no nicknames" rule. Some exceptions do occur. One Scout has a given name of Thomas but want to be called TJ. Is that a nickname? One Scout was picking up the name of "stinky" at our recent summer camp. Even some of the adults used it. As could readily be surmised, the Scout put up with it but did not like it. I never used that reference and highly encouraged others to stop. Others love the attention a nickname brings them. As an aside, one of the SAs is jokingly called "Two dogs" from that old crass Indian joke. It is more of an inside joke and that name is only uttered by adults in the confines of the adult patrol site. Some men (most) never grow up!(This message has been edited by acco40)

"of age for Philmont" Philmont has programs for all ages and all genders. True, when some talk of Philmont they are really referencing "a Philmont trek" which does have age (and weight) limits. Yes Scouts should feel safe but they also need to know that the "big world" out there has all kinds of people in it.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Tour permits required for all trips? Not that it would not hurt but ... Tour permits are not required for Council events (Camporees, Jamborees, etc.).

As they say, "actions speak louder than words." Also, "Do as I say, not as I do." The prime qualification for being a Scout leader (and it is NOT be heterosexual and believe in God) is to be a proper role model for our youth. With regard to the original post, a big lesson about right and wrong to teach to our youth is that not everything is legislated. The statement, "just because it is not illegal doesn't make it right", comes to mind. The Scout Oath states that we should "keep physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight." As Scouts and Scouters we promise to do this. Should there be a law against physical weakness? Mental sleepiness? Moral crookedness? Of course not. Is gambling wrong? Go ask no other authority than the Pope about bingo! Is eating a Hostess twinkie wrong? If eating one is okay but 100 not, what about 5? As always, the devil is in the details. What I try to teach my children is that they need to make right/wrong decisions based on their own personal developed morals and character. Don't rely on others, be it the church, Scouts, parents, legal system, etc. to make these decisions for you. You have to trust yourself. Now, one needs to make sure that the youth have the mental capacity to really understand that statement. A five year old may interpret that to mean he can do anything he wants. That is not the message I want to convey. With luck, our youth will develop a strong moral compass that doesn't change with the wind.

A few years ago, I went to some company training and a group of us all took the MBTI "test." Afterwards, we all wore a placard around our necks detailing our "profile." I was humourous and helpful! Four months after that corporate training, I took Wood Badge (for the 21st Century or "new WB) and noticed close to a 50% overlap in the training.

A Scout should maintain his portion of the merit badge card (aka blue card) to protect himself from SM, Advancement Chair, Council, etc. screw-ups. It is a back-up plan so to speak. If the SM, Advancement Chair and Council have kept complete and accurate records there is no need for the Scout to present his record keeping. However, if there is a problem with the Council records ...

What to do if after 30 days the Scout shows no improvement (because he does not do the execises that particular day) but on day 31 he does? Scout leaders are given much leeway in interpreting the requirements because many of the requirements are vague. Seriously, the big "gotcha" on this requirement always seem to be the pull-ups. Most can't do one at the beginning or one after 30 days. The upper body strength of 10 year olds coupled with our society's ever expanding waist lines makes that requirement tougher and tougher each year.

Fog, like you, when I have multiple windows open to this address the number of active users is different. What is consistent is that I am always listed a user #1! (This message has been edited by acco40)

FOG, personnally, I like VAs "Passenger for Hire" license plate the best. Only in America.

If I was the Gov't (i.e. Govenor) I'd shy away from promoting private organizations, such as the BSA, with the license program. I'm curious about the design of the plates. The article states that "The license plate will be designed by the organization, which has 180 days to collect and submit 350 prepaid applications." Does this mean the national council would have to submit a design? An area or region of the BSA? A local council and if so which one and what if there were competing designs? To my knowledge, the BSA is not organized by state (BW or Steele where are you?). I think a design highlighting Virginia's tie in to the National Jamboree would be appropriate.

My son earned his life rank three months after his 12th birthday. By age 12.5, he too was a couple merit badges and a project away from Eagle. Now, a few weeks before he turns 14, he is still a couple of merit badges and a project away from Eagle and that is fine with me! I had a few boys join our troop (unofficially) at age 10. One joined in Feb. and his birthday was in Dec. so he had just turned 10. Maturity is not much of a problem with him. I do like the 10 year old floor. I'm curious, has the Cub Scout program changed any requirements? It was a grade based program and I'd hate to see a Webelos/AOL recipient denied joining a troop. They need to keep the two programs in sync.

On the official uniform inspection sheet (youth), proper patch placement is shown. One of the "patches" is the youths name, first and last. However, I know troops that have guidelines about placing a youth's full name on-line or in any public forum due to safety concerns. As SM, I usually come home with more items than I left with. I prominently show the neckerchief slides, belts, hats, cups, plates, etc. that I've found at the camp site before we depart but few step up to claim them. Another solution (the obvious one) to marking every item with the Scouts name is to have the Scout EARN the monies to buy the uniform and supplies. That way he takes ownership and stops looking at the items as a renewable resource, i.e. something Mom or Dad will willingly procure ad infinitum.

There are Jambo patches issued by National and then there are council "strips" or patches which are unique to a particular council that may sell specialized patches, such as contingent troop, commemorative, etc. for collectors as a fundraising affair. I'll admit, I'm not a patch collector and my expertise is very limited in that area.

Awards should be presented in a timely fashion. IMHO, two months after it was earned is too slow. We try to hold a COH less than a month after summer camp. This year, our COH will be held three weeks after our return from summer camp. The extra week was due to the 4th of July holiday. If one waits for the boys to finish up partials, I have found that the wait becomes indefinite.

One thing I'm happy about the BSA uniform is that it does not have a company logo on it (i.e. Nike "swoosh", Reebok logo, Adidas stripes, etc.) The Girl Scouts have many different uniform parts which allow the girls some variety in thier uniforms. I like the idea that our troop has black hats and neckerchiefs. I know the goal of a uniform is uniformity, but allowing some sort of customization appeals to the age group we are recruiting.

Terry, The "Ignore User" or squelching seems to be hit and miss. I've check my Welcome back XXXX! and am looged on. Some of the posts are ignored but not all. If a person who I have chosen to ignore starts a new thread, will that be "hidden?" Thanks for providing an enjoyable, informative and alas sometimes maddening, service to Scouts, Scouter, and the general public. Your efforts are appreciated.

I don't endorse the removal of the "issues" areas. I sometimes enjoy perusing some of those issues. However, I urge all to utilize the "squelch" feature and don't bother debating or jousting with belligerent, cynical and those who revel in pulling others chains. As the saying goes, don't try and wrestle with pigs, both of you will get muddy and the pig will enjoy it.

mmHardy, thought you'd like to hear a recent (last week) LLSR tale. Our troop had quite a few first time campers this year, about 15. I gave the boys my annual, "no food in tent" speech about racoons. Honest, I didn't make it all that scary. However, two of the youngest boys were spooked! Even at noon, they would sit on the picnic tables, afraid the racoons would cary them off if they wandered alone on the treacherous soil. When bed time came around they were still frightened. They wanted to sleep in the other boys tents (safety in numbers I guess). Well, one of the SAs trying to assuage their fears told one of the boys that, "unless you put a hamburger on your stomach when you go to sleep, you'll be alright." The young boy then lost it. It just so happens that the pillow he brought was a round "replica" of a cheeseburger! The fabric print had the bun, burger, lettuce, cheeese, pickles, etc.! Explaining to him that the racoons go by smell and not sight was to no avail. Needless to say, he slept with a pair of other boys that night. By the end of summer camp, he and his tent mate were bravely spending the night in their tents. Once again, no boys were lost to racoons - another successful summer camp!

Who is your sponser? I doubt if it is Merrian-Webster!