acco40

Are not Webelos Cub Scouts? Also, have you noticed that no politicians lie anymore (Eamonn that's liAr, not liEr), they just miss spoke.

Our council is doing the same thing with the "commemorative" Jambo council strips. We are sending five contingent troops and although a similar theme, each troop will have aslighly different strip. Oh, and the general public (the great unwashed) which are those who are not going to go to the Jamboree, have the "opportunity" to buy slightly different (different border) strip. Yes, it all smacks of hypocrisy, especially considering the BSA unit fundraising rules but it is done quite widely.

In the words of the immortal Frank Zappa - watch out where the Huskies go and don't you eat that yellow snow!

Write my name! Our district has an annual Winter event. Some of the ideas that they have used are the usuals: snow snakes, klondike sleds, etc. I suggest getting some mushers to demonstrate their craft, ice fishing, building a quinzee (and using it. Much, much warmer than a tent.). Good luck.

Hey, I'm all for Scouts (and Scouters) if interested to earn their religious awards and be recognized by the BSA for doing it. Both of my sons have earned multiple (age appropriate) awards for the faith/religion that they are being raised. If I had my druthers, however, the BSA would base membership on actions and not thoughts. Trust, loyalty, obedience, ..., and yes, even reverence are actions. If a Scout performs community service, performs "irksome tasks with a cheerful spirit", helps others, etc. I don't think that the BSA should make religion/belief a prerequisite.

I don't have it with me at work but the national council puts out a flier that tells the contingent troops/council where they ought to be wrt Jambo. Our council selected all adult leaders in January but some of the 3rd SAs, i.e. 18 - 21 year olds, are still to be had because most were away at school. We held monthly meetings of the adult leaders and had the boys assigned to a troop and a waiting list by February. Some of the troops have met, some have not. Most will begin monthly meetings in Sept. or Oct. The SPL, ASPL, QM and Scribe will be selected first with PLs to follow. That should be complete by early Nov. Shake out in May. Meanwhile, Jambo committee has been finalizing equipment, travel arrangements, etc. Much energy has focused on the design of our Jambo council strip (sheez ). My bet is that your son is assigned to a troop and much has been going on but that the parents of the Scouts have not been informed to date. Just a guess but one of the items I have brought up is that as soon as the council starts to collect the money (in incremental chinese torture method), the parents should not be left in the dark. Communication, as always, is key.(This message has been edited by acco40)

NJ, I caught that in the article too, but did not comment on it. However, scary stuff still has a place but one has to be very careful and observant. A year ago, a Webelos den went on an outing with our troop. We were in a neighboring council scout camp in the far corner. It was in October and where we were was right next to a farmers corn field. The Boy Scouts went out after dinner (it was dark) and walked around the corn fields. The majority were in the 11 - 13 year old range. The Webelos asked to go to, so I joined them. My main concern was not to have the older boys scare the younger ones. I also was somewhat wary because we were going on private property. Well the Webelos really wanted to be scared! Something about a moonlit night in a cornfield in October. One or two Scouts did not want to participate and that was not a problem. No goading or harassment existed. But some wanted me to go with them and they slowly crept toward the cornfield. The fear was paltable but they wanted to do it. Well, all of the Webelos that attended that camp-out with us joined our troop. They still say that outing was one of the best. Leadership has to be very careful about "scary stuff" but there is a reason that spook houses, roller coasters, etc. have a big appeal to youth. Not my cup of tea mind you but if done properly it can work out well.

I debated whether to put this topic in Issues & Politics or camping and High Adventure. Anyway, the purpose was not to debate our national energy policies but to inform those about what may be going on in Philmont's backyard. Personnally, I think that El Paso Corp. should stick to making salsa products! The article was from the LA Times. The link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=2&u=/latimests/20040809/ts_latimes/whitehouseintercedesforgasprojectinnationalforest By Julie Cart Times Staff Writer CARSON NATIONAL FOREST, N.M. Overriding the opposition of the U.S. Forest Service and New Mexico state officials, a White House energy task force has interceded on behalf of Houston-based El Paso Corp. in its two-year effort to explore for natural gas in a remote part of a national forest next door to America's largest Boy Scout camp. Forest Service officials discouraged efforts to drill in the Valle Vidal at least three times since the agency acquired the land in 1982, citing concerns about water pollution, wildlife and recreation if a large-scale energy project were approved. But last week, the agency took the first step toward approving the giant energy company's proposal to tap into 40,000 acres of alpine meadows in the Carson National Forest. The agency released a report that forecast a high probability of recovering gas from the area and laid out a scenario in which 500 wells could be drilled on the forest's east side. The Forest Service's action has sparked angry opposition from many groups and officials, including New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, a Democrat who was U.S. secretary of Energy during the Clinton administration. Such disputes are increasingly commonplace in Rocky Mountain states as critics of Bush administration energy policies accuse the White House of repeatedly targeting some of the most cherished wild places for development. Home to 200 species of birds and 60 types of mammals, including one of the state's largest elk herds, the "Valley of Life," as it was named by Latino pioneers, has been a proving ground for generations of young men and women in a wilderness training program run by the Boy Scouts of America. Since 1938, the Boy Scouts have operated a national training center on the 200-square-mile Philmont Ranch southeast of the Valle Vidal. Each year some 25,000 young people converge on the ranch for a host of outdoor activities. But when the Forest Service, in consultation with the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (news - web sites), rejected El Paso Corp.'s request in 2002, the company appealed to the administration. "In this environment, we need new natural gas supplies more than ever,'' wrote El Paso's federal government affairs director to Robert W. Middleton, the director of the White House Task Force on Energy Project Streamlining. "We believe that the Valle Vidal Unit could be a vital new source of such supply. Consequently, we would very much appreciate anything you could do to help move this process forward in a timely manner.'' Copies of correspondence made available to The Times show that after El Paso representatives met with Middleton, he instructed the Forest Service to revisit the project. David Seesholtz, a forest planner working on the Valle Vidal project, said there was no pressure from Washington to reverse past policy, and he said the initial steps taken last week by the Forest Service did not necessarily mean the agency would allow energy exploration. No one on the task force, including Middleton, was available to be interviewed. But, speaking on behalf of the task force, Dana Perino, of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, said there was nothing inappropriate about Middleton's memo to the Forest Service. The task force was established by executive order in 2001 to help boost oil and gas production on public lands. Although the Valle Vidal had not been opened to exploration, Perino said the task force did not overstep its authority or exert undue pressure on the Forest Service when it responded to El Paso's request for assistance. According to Forest Service staffers at the agency's Taos office, the task force began making calls almost every week, beginning in 2003, to inquire about the progress of the Valle Vidal project. "The task force came down through the channels. The change was based on 'Let's see what we can do for El Paso Energy,' '' said Benjamin Romero, public affairs officer for Carson National Forest. "The overall thought was they are forcing us into expediting it," said another staffer, who spoke on condition of anonymity. Joanna Prokup, New Mexico's secretary of energy, minerals and natural resources, said the task force's message to the Forest Service left little room for interpretation. "El Paso called D.C., D.C. called the Forest Service. They've put it on the fast track." Prokup, whose agency oversees oil and gas operations in the state, opposes any drilling in the Valle Vidal, "both personally and professionally," she said. At an anti-drilling rally two weeks ago, Richardson described the Valle Vidal as a precious place that should be left as it is, a view shared by state game and fish officials, hunting and fishing groups, conservation organizations and local ranchers some of whom trace their ancestry to 18th and 19th century Spanish and Mexican pioneers who settled much of northern New Mexico. About 47% of the population in surrounding Colfax County is Latino. An energy project can transform undeveloped countryside into an industrial landscape of roads, power lines, pipelines, wells, generators, compressors and waste-water ponds. Although Philmont officials have not commented publicly on the prospect of energy exploration next to the Scout ranch, many former campers and staff members have expressed opposition and about 300 have signed an online petition opposing it. "There is a lot of outrage among the staff," said Justin Berger, a former camper and Philmont staff member who for three summers led Scouts on 12-day wilderness trips into the Valle Vidal. If the project goes ahead, it would occur "precisely where we maintain our camps,'' said Berger, who now lives in Maine. "I would fully expect that we would shut our camps down." On Thursday, Kim Wallace, an El Paso spokeswoman, said the company had not yet decided what course it would take. "At this point, El Paso has not decided if it has an interest in leasing this acreage should it be open to lease," she said. A global energy company founded in 1928, El Paso has the largest network of natural gas pipelines in the United States. Over the last five years, the company has contributed $2.3 million to Republican candidates and political action committees. The controversy over natural gas exploration in the Valle Vidal marks the second time in recent months that such a proposal has sparked broad bipartisan opposition in New Mexico, the nation's second-largest onshore producer of natural gas. Taxes and royalties from the energy industry make up by far the largest portion of the state's $12-billion permanent fund, which is used primarily to finance education. A plan by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management to allow gas drilling on Otero Mesa in southeast New Mexico provoked equally intense opposition and prompted the governor to say that energy exploration should be prohibited in places where the environment could be harmed. The Valle Vidal joins a growing list of Western locations where the Bush administration's aggressive support for energy production has triggered opposition not only from environmentalists, but from farmers, ranchers and others worried about the effects on pastureland, water quality, wildlife and scenery. Similar disputes in Wyoming, Montana, Colorado and Utah pit the importance of energy supplies against the value of other resources that attract tourists and new residents and generate income from hunting, fishing and wildlife viewing. The Valle Vidal is an oasis of wild country within the much larger Raton Basin, where more than 6 million acres are being explored or drilled for natural gas. El Paso already operates just outside the Valle Vidal, in the 600,000-acre Vermejo Park Ranch, owned by media tycoon Ted Turner. The energy company had acquired the right to drill the land before Turner, a noted conservationist, bought it in 1996. Encompassing about 100,000 acres, the Valle Vidal was donated to the Forest Service in 1982 by Pennzoil Corp. Pennzoil requested that the land be managed for the benefit of wildlife and recreation. Ranging in elevation from 7,700 to 12,584 feet, the Valle Vidal's high meadows abut the foothills of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains in the southern Rocky Mountains. Elk, deer, black bears, mountain lions and bobcats inhabit the area, and the Valle Vidal's streams are home to Rio Grande cutthroat trout, prized by anglers. Last week, Joe Torres, president of the Valle Vidal Grazing Assn., talked about what the valley meant to him and his family, who have been tending cattle there for more than 100 years. Torres, 76, said he's been hunting, fishing, camping and horseback riding in the Valle Vidal all his life. "We can't harass the wildlife in any way," he said. "They were here first. If that means no drilling, we don't drill. It's that simple. I think the people of the United States have a vested interest here." Berger, the former Philmont Ranch staffer, described the Valle Vidal as a vivid outdoor classroom. He said that at a certain point on each backpacking trip, group leaders teach campers the Wilderness Pledge. "We tell them, 'With a right comes a responsibility.' With the right to use the land comes a responsibility to protect it."

Those lamenting about boys who earn the Eagle rank (and receive the award) but do not "Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life." are complaining after the horse has already left the barn. That particular requirement exists for Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, 1st Class, Star and Life. To all of a sudden deny the rank of Eagle to a boy, who has had that particular requirement signed off for his previous five rank advancements when his behavior (however good or bad) has held constant is a sign of bad leadership on the part of the adult leaders. I'm not encouraging blanket sign-offs, I'm encouraging setting up expectations for the Scouts and holding them to those expectations. We should expect what some have classified as "Eagle behavior" from ALL of our Scouts. No magic switch gets turned on as one becomes an Eagle Scout.

Nice article. I interpreted the article slightly different from the way you must have Merlyn. Mr. MacDonald is just stating a fact, that the BSA does get boys, and adults, from all different backgrounds. I firmly believe we have registered members who are homosexual and/or do not believe in God. Mr. MacDonald did not infer that he knew exactly which Scouts had no religious beliefs, just that there were some who attended. I personnally believe that Scouting is a very worthwhile program for Scouts and Scouters alike regardless of their sexual orientation or religious beliefs. "Attending chapel is optional, but on a Sunday evening, some 300 boys, men and women gather on benches in a clearing in the woods. Just over the bluff, the Pacific roars, and the wind whistles through the trees above. Camp chaplain Don Jackson begins the brief service with a song, and about 300 voices join him in singing the folk tune most every camper knows, "Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya." Some things never change." (This message has been edited by acco40)

Armed Scouters out looking for feral dogs in the dark of night within 100 - 150 yards of sleeping Scouts. That is one camp where I would NOT be getting up at night to empty my bladder myself.

The BSA uniform inspection sheet for Male Scouters states that on the Right Pocket. Jamboree insignia (only one) worn above BSA or interpreter strip. That's it. The picture shows the circular patch worn centered horizontally above the right pocket above the the BOY SCOUTS of AMERICA strip, interpreter strip (FRANCAIS), VENTURE strip, and name tag (JEFFREY BROWN). I've seen experienced Jamboree attendees wear their patch very high up and more to the outside of their shirt (wearer's right). Does anyone if Jamboree attendees (as leaders or scouts of a contingent troop) get a formal name tag and if so the size? I'd hate to sew the Jambo patch on and not have enough room for the ID tag or the converse, have much "white space" between the Jambo patch, name tag and BSA strip. Comments?

I like it!

Another knife story ... During Woodbadge (for the21st Century mind you) each patrol was asked to do a skit and one patrol had one on knife safety for Cubs. One of the adults (posing as a kid) was supposed to do something wrong with a knife and you guessed it. During the skit he cut his finger badly. First came laughter, then concern and then the first aid kits came out. I blame those stupid "home video" shows for associating laughter with injury. Why seen a male get hit in the groin is humorous or seeing others fall or get hurt emotes laughter from others puzzle me.

I always wondered what the source for "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes!" was. Now I know. Did Dan Quayle help "spell check" your project?

Sounds like a great idea that the BSA does not condone! They don't like raffles or any other "games of chance" as fundraising ideas. Scout fundraisers must be approved before they are started. The following are general guidelines for fundraising projects: 1) Units cannot solicit direct monetary contributions. 2) Fund raisers cannot involve gambling (e.g. raffles) or conflict with local ordinances. 3) Avoid conflicts with goods and service provided by local businesses. 4) The service or product offered should be worth the amount paid. 5) Do not enter a fundraising contract that could bind the Chartered Organization, Council, or BSA. 6) Do not interfere with the territory of another unit. 7) Avoid holding fundraiser during times that conflict with community, council, or other fundraising drives. Make sure you file the BSA Unit Money Earning application (see below for link) before beginning with any fundraiser!! Gee, I feel just like BW today? Are you out there lurking? Come on in from the cold. http://www.scouting.org/forms/34427.pdf Now, unless your chartering organization happens to be a bakery what you could do is: Have the Scouts bring in a desert. Sell the deserts for $1.00 a piece. Money raised for a product delivered (at a fair price) is kosher. Now I'll admit that when our unit sells popcorn at store sales, oops, I mean show and sell, we have a jar with "donations" written on it for those who want to contribute money but do not want to buy popcorn. In the past, before we had such a jar, many individuals would volunteer, unsolicited mind you, to give a few bucks but did not want to spend $15 for a tin can of corn. We don't actively solicit for the donations but yes, we probably are in violation of BSA policy. Bottle drives - here in Michigan we have a 10 cent deposit on all carbonated beverage containers (soda pop, beer, etc.). Many units, ours included, have gone door to door collecting donated cans and bottles. Is that legit? Some say no, others say a service is being performed (recycling, saving inidviduals a trip to the store for redemption, etc.) at a fair price. I do know of a Scout who used that method to raise funds for his Eagle Scout project and therefore assume it was approved by the district training chair (Eagle advisor board). Of course, except for the proverbial Trails End, fundraising should not be done in uniform.(This message has been edited by acco40)

"In olden days, you could only work on one rank at a time which meant that you had to earn T-foot, then 2nd Class, and finally First Class in order." Today, you still have to earn the ranks in "proper" order. However, one can fulfill a 2nd Class rank requirement before earning the rank of Tenderfoot. As Scoutmaster I deal with a few families that have a Scout who is very happy to advance at his own pace but who has a parent or parents who push - both him and me, for rapid advancement. The problem is theirs, not ours. Deal with the parents in private. I've had families leave the troop because I would not "guarantee" advancement. The thought that advancement is up to the Scout was foreign to them. As for self motivated (overachieving push himself Scout), that is not a problem in my book. Unless the Scout is trying to get requirements signed off that he is not really fulfilling, I see no problem. I have two sons who have advanced very rapidly - one made Life four months after he turned 12. Now, he had been in the troop for over 2.5 years by then (young for his school age) but still it was fairly rapid progress. He will turn 14 next week and he is - still Life! Fine with me, fine with him. Well, to be honest, his mother keeps bugging him about finishing up his MBs and starting his project but that is another story. My other son, who is twelve, is currently a Star and very close to Life. He has not missed one meeting, one outing, one service project, one ANYTHING in his year an a half of Boy Scouts. I'm very proud of both. Each has had the luxury of having a good friend (and former den mate in Cubs) to "compete" with for rank advancement. Peer pressure CAN be a good thing. There are currently no Eagles in the troop for them to compare with so after obtaining Life the peer pressure has eased forthe older one. In actuality, there are two Eagles but they are both in the over 35 age group! There is something to be said about earning Eagle before the gasoline, girls and other things kick in. I've noticed a spike in earning Eagle right before or right at 16 and then again right before 18 for obvious reasons. That's life.

YOu say that the Eagle counselor has created such a rule - so yes such a rule exists. Is it correct? No. Is it in violation of BSA policy? Yes. Is it adding to requirements? Yes. It is just another case, of many, of adults trying to "tailor" the program to what they think it should be. Just remind the counselor that the BSA program is what it is and that he has not authority to change it. Good luck.

I'm with you scouting-nerd. I own multiple shirts. If I need to "replenish" my knots, I should be able to go in and buy them. If one is so low as to buy knots they have not earned, I pity them. What bothers me is that when I have originally earned an award and either I or the unit submits the proper paperwork, the district/council awards a knot and not the medal! So right now I have a couple of knots which represent medals I have earned but do not possess! That's a hoot in my book.

I'm guessing here but I am fairly confident that the answer is no. The advancement report for Packs deals with rank and arrow points/actvity pins. For troops, rank and merit badges. The religious awards are really a bastardized type of BSA award. It really is an award that is awarded by the religious institution, not the BSA, but recognized by the BSA and allowed to be worn with the uniform. The award is a medal, not a knot. The knot is a symbol that the medal was earned. I know many bash those who attempt to correct grammar but being rewarded and earning an award are vastly different things.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Many online sources, though unofficial, are very helpful. The requirements book comes out annually and is THE BIBLE for rank and MB requirements. However, it lists current reqs, and not a past history. Our district MB training sessions usually give a brief overview of what changes were made each year. The training is free and isn't too painful.

To begin a merit badge, a Scout should get the approval of his SM first. One way to facilitate this is to have the MB counselor list reside with the SM only.

Duplicate post - sorry.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Chief, To decide "who represents America's youth at the Republican National Convention", I would be surprised if any of the essays espoused core democratic party beliefs.

The troop to which I am a member of course but it is a "members only" site. Actually, our troop site is pretty plain and I've been very impressed with what I have seen some of the other troops accomplish. Congrats!