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InquisitiveScouter

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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter

  1. On 12/23/2022 at 8:13 AM, Cburkhardt said:

    I hope one of our readers who has a firm grasp on membership numbers could discuss the big picture on the membership decline.  There is such a tangle of issues that will have contributed to the decline (especially the bankruptcy and its many impacts)  that I am unable to authoritatively opine on whether adding all girl dens/troops was a net membership add or subtraction.  All I can do is share my actual experience as a “big troop” scoutmaster

    When we started four years ago, we were the only girl troop in our district. We were not always welcomed and I personally absorbed a lot of negative comment from a select group of uber-traditionalists.  When I took 24 girls to summer camp for the first time, the leaders of the troop next door openly despised us and me personally and continuously registered unjustified, piddling  complaints.  Our girls were sometimes harassed in their merit badge classes.  Despite this, we came in as runner-up for troop of the week and won the camp-wide games — and none of that was my doing.  The youth just organized themselves well.

    Four years down the road all of that is a distant memory.  All of the traditionalists are still there  and we (and 2 additional girl troops) are still growing.  They have accepted us because they see the success.  My speculation is that there were few who left our movement because “somewhere out there is an all-girl troop participating in our program”.   None of our district’s troops folded or downsized as a result (although some were lost through COVID or churches upset about the bankruptcy).  The overwhelming bulk of criticism about girl troops I read in the media (and I read every article) came from outside the BSA.  This was mainly from columnists who inaccurately proclaimed we were fully co-ed, former members who were part of Trail Life, and leaders of GSUSA above the unit level.  The media firestorm over girls is long over and the only remaining discussion is now confined to hyper-bitter commentary from anti-BSA folks on mostly-unread corners of social media.
     

    My speculation is that the effect of adding girl dens and troops has not caused a membership loss and probably netted us a gain.  Last summer girls comprised about 1/6 of the youth participating during our week.  That has to mean something positive.

    Aviators have a saying....

    "The flak is heaviest when you are over the target!"

    Although another iteration of that is:

    "If you're taking flak, you're over the target."

    • Upvote 2
  2. 11 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

    If there is a water source, I advocate for filtering. Only carry water for dry camps.

    Be mindful that filtering is not effective against viruses.  Here is a great table showing different treatment methods and what they will do for you...

    https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/drinking/Backcountry_Water_Treatment-508.pdf

    Everyone should be vaccinated against Hep A. 

    Incubation for norovirus is 12 - 48 hours.  https://www.cdc.gov/hai/pdfs/norovirus/229110-anorocasefactsheet508.pdf

    Incubation period for enteroviruses is usually 3 - 5 days.  https://www.cdc.gov/non-polio-enterovirus/about/ev-d68.html

    Incubation for rotavirus is about 2 days.  https://www.cdc.gov/rotavirus/clinical.html

    And there's a lot more virus-bugs out there...

    The larger your group, and the longer you are out, the greater the risk you take with just filtering water.

    Note that boiling is best.

    If you are going to filter (small quantities for drinking) then chemically treat it, too.  Best to do this just before bedtime, as chemicals take about four hours to be effective.

    Some pro tips:

    1.  If you are cooking hot meals, boil a little extra water that you can leave to cool off for drinking.  NEVER pour out water you have boiled.  It is a waste of fuel.

    2.  Never boil water you have taken the time and effort to filter/treat.  Again, waste of fuel.

    3.  On cold weather camping trips, boil water and put in Nalgene-type bottles  (wide mouth!!!).  Put these in your sleeping bag for a comfy night's rest.  In the morning, you will have liquid (not frozen) potable water.

    4.  Plan meals with a mind on water usage and cleanup.  Spaghetti = bad (huge waste of water). 

    5.  Always lick your dishes clean, or wipe with a good hunk of bread.  In our Troop we say, "Clean your dishes before you wash your dishes!"

    6.  Going lightweight with dehydrated meals?  After eating, clean your dishes (see above), but do not wash them... yet.  As you boil water for the next meal, sterilize your dishes in the boiling water you will be using to hydrate your meals.  (I know this idea will probably be poo-pooed, but you have to overcome your psychological barriers and look at the practicality behind it...)

    • Upvote 1
  3. 1 hour ago, curious_scouter said:

    One approach we've used for a long time is that on those outings each Scout brings 2 gallons (usually two 1-gallon jugs) and then each patrol has 1 igloo 5 gallon drink thing full for water bottle refill and cooking + a 5 gallon bucket with a lid for KP water.  This seems to work but with 30-40 souls generates 60-80 empty plastic containers.  They carry out what they carry in, but man... its a LOT of waste per outing.

    You say this method works for you, with the real drawback being waste.  You can procure one gallon water jugs with screw on lids.... reusable = no/less waste

  4. 1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

    At the rate things are trending, we'll have:

    Citizenship in the Solar System

    Citizenship in the Galaxy

    Citizenship in the Universe

    Well, probably not in the Universe until ZIP codes are assigned.

    I just have to agree with sentiments that Merit Badges are more and more academic.  Less and less experience.

    Me, just a nobody, I can build a fire in a pouring rain. Period. And yeah, in a torrential rain.  I am a master at it.  OK, not a master, GENIUS.  I am really good at building fires.  Get lost in the Wilderness, get lost with me, if you are so lucky.  (And my 2 degrees from a land grant university will not save my life.) What will save my life (and yours) is what I learned in Scouting.

    And that is how it is.

    Experience. 

    Just make sure you remember my correct pronouns when we get lost together.

    Your Majesty / His Majesty

  5. 10 hours ago, JoeBob said:

    When our troop did a week of rafting instead of summer camp, we offered 3 MBs:

    Wood carving - projects and supervised practice at each campsite.

    Wilderness survival - reading on the road, and 'build your own shelter and sleep in it' 20 yards into the woods from the vans.

    Nature - "Yes little Johnny, that is bear poop, know as 'scat'; and those are little bells in it."

    Oh, so you were in grizzly country!?

  6. 13 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    I am not even going to try to explain the Psychology of introverts.....  Would be futile.

    (Disclaimer:  this post is tongue-in-cheek!!!)

    It's intrinsically the same as extroverts... both are dealing with narcissism and a feeling of vulnerability and embarrassment 😜  At least, I can speak for the extroverts. 

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201601/7-signs-covert-introvert-narcissist

  7. 1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    Unfortunately because BSA is a private organization with the right to select its members, they do not need to acknowledge a CO's investigation, let alone a criminal one, where the volunteer has been exonerated. They can still permanently remove an individual. My friend has never been reinstated in the BSA, despite a criminal investigation being done, and proving her story was the correct one.

    And how does that situation square with "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law."???

    Rhetorical... it doesn't.

  8. Definitely high numbers...

    Our unit is strong.  We have 60+ youth on the roster.  At recharter, we have dropped approximately 10 due to aging out, attrition, and transfer.  We expect to see those added back through Crossovers and recruiting during the year.  We just barely hit our 85% retention rate for JTE Gold.

    Agree with @1980Scouter.  Even a "rolling" one or two year average would be more indicative of reality and would flatten out the highs and lows.               

    • Upvote 1
  9. 18 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

    If falsely accused of YPT abuse, have the CO investigate and exonerate.

    Thanks for bringing your story forward.  So many of us are focused on preventing YPT incidents that we sometimes fail to recognize that good adult reputations are brought into question when a person makes unsubstantiated accusations that seem impossible to unwind or dispute.  However, this is not the case.  There is a great way to handle unfounded accusations.

    When an allegation is made -- directly or impliedly -- that a volunteer has violated YPT during an incident involving a youth, the matter should always be fully investigated by the BSA and the Chartered Organization (CO).  Involving the CO is the only way to protect our youth members and the reputation of an adult falsely accused.  This is because when the BSA does the investigation by itself, there is no express, written exoneration of an innocent adult.  The BSA process only results in either removal of the accused adult from the program (being added to the ineligible volunteer list) or “no action” being taken.  No written explanation is ever provided.  That “no action” is taken does not equate into express exoneration.

    When an adult scout leader observes abuse of a child by another that violates YPT, the observing scout leader is required under state laws to stop the abuse and immediately report the incident to law enforcement.  Next, the Scout Executive and CO must be informed.  Depending on the severity of the circumstance, law enforcement may or may not take action.  Regardless, the BSA and CO are obligated under their own internal policies to investigate and take action (if appropriate).  We are all familiar with the BSA YPT system.  COs also have ethical policies and are required to act to investigate and prevent reported abuse.  Often the CO will defer to the BSA to conduct the investigation and defer to its judgement – but this does not properly protect potentially-innocent adult volunteers.

    What any falsely-accused adult should insist on in these types of situations is for the CO to conduct its own investigation of the matter in cooperation with the BSA and issue its own CO written report.  If the allegation is false or simply an unfounded suspicion on the part of the accuser, the CO can and should exonerate the accused in writing.  The BSA in such a circumstance will conduct its own investigation and determine to take “no action”.  The difference is clear – the accused can receive an explanation and exoneration only from the CO.

    Here is an actual example.  A parent of a youth accused scout leaders of child abuse in writing because the youth came back exhausted after a long hike.  In this case the youth was not injured, only tired and thirsty.  And, full permission slips were executed with adequate warning that there was going to be a long hike that day.  The semi-public nature of the child abuse accusation was humiliating and potentially damaging to the careers of scout leaders, some of whom had security clearances.  The leaders self-reported the incident to the Scout Executive and CO (a church).  The church CO conducted its own investigation (involving an attorney) in cooperation with the BSA and issued a fully-exonerating document.  Those scout leaders now have a document protecting themselves.

    In the incident you describe, Mr. Pillar did not report the alleged abuse to law enforcement.  Probably because he knows the allegation is either entirely false or a dishonestly exaggerated version of innocent facts.  That the BSA camp staff was made aware of the matter and chose to take “no action” proves how those falsely accused of a YPT incident are not exonerated under the BSA system.  Finally, you do not mention whether the alleged abuse was ever reported to the CO.

    Mr. Pillar will continue to hector you with express or implied allegations of child abuse and your reputation will continue to be negatively impacted.  You have three choices:

    1.    You can accept his continued hectoring and manage the impact on your reputation.

    2.    You can sue him in court for defamation.

    3.    You can self-report the original and all subsequent youth abuse allegations of Mr. Pillar to the BSA and CO and request a written report from your CO.  You must assure that your CO is directly and independently involved in the process and issues its written report.

    Mr. Pillar will be forced to appear and prove his case to the CO and their attorney with facts.  “Pillars of the community” who use bullying and slanderous techniques to destroy reputations crumble when required to prove their cases.  There is no better justice.

     

    Thanks for that @Cburkhardt!!  I did not know of this "accepted" (?) avenue for dealing with such situations.

    Would this also apply if an adult on Camp Staff was accused by a youth Camp Staffer of an infraction?  Who would be in the CO role to write such a letter in that case, since both are "employees" of the council at the time?

  10. 11 hours ago, qwazse said:

    Define “other countries” the largest organizations (India, Indonesia) are segregated. Some of the fastest growing (Pakistan) are unisex. Some of the slowest growing or declining (like ours) are facing negative growth. The most successful associations with blended organization are that way because their royals insisted it be so. Scouts UK has only just recovered its losses in male membership after decades of decline. And that was a result of a concerted effort of their leaders of Girl Guides insisting that everyone play nice.

    So, why should a girl AOL lack a troop to crossover? Two causes:

    • The president and congress have no interest in making  BSA and GS/USA “play nice” by (at the very least) sharing participation in Jamboree.
    • The scout failed to recruit her friends (or enemies) and a trio of caring adults.

    It is indeed a serious issue but as far as I can tell it’s not ours to solve until we are demanded to do so by 1) our youth or 2) our elected officials.

     

    Third cause:   Council not facilitating, educating/training, supporting the work it takes to administer a Troop

    Fourth cause:  Parents not willing to put in the time or effort to create a Troop and mentor youth in through the program.

    Fifth cause:  Council not focusing on a healthy unit climate and working to create the needed unit structure.  Lack of a good leadership structure (including pay) needed to recruit, train, support, and retain DE's... which results in a  lack of a solid District Volunteer Staff, Commissioner Corps, etc. etc. etc.

  11. Thanks for opening up your story.  I think you have a good outcome so far.  And it seems as though the Committee stood up for you. (?)  That means they may see things in sort of the same light as you do.  Recommend you have a private chat with the other two Key 3 to confirm.

    As someone mentioned in your previous thread, a good idea is to always have an adult buddy with you.  This has saved my behind several times over the past years, in different ways.  IMHO, due to increased screen time (vs face-to-face time), young people (not just Scouts) are becoming less proficient at reading people and interpreting context and meaning.  This means more of these situations are likely to appear.

    Any time I am doing stuff with Scouts (other than driving), I try have another adult joined at the hip.  It is difficult, and ofttimes impossible to have them side-by-side (rather than present at the event doing other things).  But, if you can get to that point, you will find you are less concerned about issues like this recurring.

     

     

  12. 13 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

    How do you defend against loose accusations but also protect the vulnerable. 

    By adhering to our legal principle of presumption of innocence.

    BSA has turned this on its head.  If someone accuses in BSA, you are guilty until proven innocent.  Except, you are never given the Kafkaesque opportunity to prove innocence.  And even some who have been proven innocent are still left on the IVF.

    In the case @Eagle94-A1 relates, the Scout accused an adult of "solicitation of a minor" or "unlawful contact of a minor", or some other statutory violation. 

    We should take accusations seriously, and clear the air when they are made, because sometimes, they are based on an inexperienced misread of the situation. 

    https://www.blackburncenter.org/post/on-believing-victims

    BSA mindset appears to be that it can discard adults at will, and suffer no negative consequences.  I would posit this as one of the many reasons, overall, that BSA is failing.

    • Upvote 2
  13. 12 hours ago, fred8033 said:

    Lone scout learning leadership? 

    Citizenship by themselves?  Or do you mean the four merit badges?  

    Character as a lone scout?  Is it any different from homeschooling by the parents? 

    Fitness by themselves?  Fitness is achieved by being in an active, busy group; not just a merit badge.  

    IMHO, a specific sport would be better than the lone scout program.  

    Scouting is social.  I'm not against the lone scout for isolated families, but I question the match in this situation.

    Recommended reading to help open your aperture a bit...

    https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/boyscouts/pdf/511-420.pdf

  14. Assuming you mean the Historic Trails Award.

    https://www.scouting.org/awards/awards-central/historic-trails/

    Yes, completed this multiple times.  We are surrounded by many historic trails around here, fortunately with camping opportunities attached.

    However, it need not be one of the trails on the BSA list.  There are literally hundreds of other opportunities for you to meet the requirements if one of the BSA trails is not convenient to you.  

    Many state and national historic parks have opportunities for you.  Any place on the National Register of Historic Places would qualify also.

    https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nationalregister/index.htm

    Sounds like what your are doing is on target.

    You may enter the completion in Scoutbook for your Scouts.  No real need to file the application any more.  That is throw back to a time before Scoutbook, when the Registrar would enter these kinds of awards on a Scout's (or Scouter's) record in ScoutNet.

    Enjoy!!

     

     

  15. 6 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

    It's okay to work with troubled scouts, but boundaries exist. Scouts that can't control themselves or are a risk to others do need to be separated from the troop.

     

    As for lone scout, I always question the value of it. Scout's value is in working with other scouts. Scouting is about community and developing connections. At some point, lone scout sounds more like getting rank than getting value.

    2 minutes ago, fred8033 said: It's okay to work with troubled scouts, but boundaries exist. Scouts that can't control themselves or are a risk to others do need to be separated from the troop. As for lone scout, I always question the value of it. Scout's value is in working with other scouts. Scouting is about community and developing connections. At some point, lone scout sounds more like getting rank than getting value. 

     

    Character, citizenship, fitness, leadership...

    Would helping this Scout with 3 out of 4 be acceptable?

  16. 1 hour ago, skeptic said:

    An issue totally unespected and out of the blue.  Been in the program since cubs, and other than occasional breaking of something in frustration, never threatening to others.  Something went awry it would seem and his doctors are involved.  It just seems that if we can work with him in some way that does not put others in harms way, or he is proven to be tempered, would Lone Scout be an option.  A lot of "ifs", and not something likely in the books directly.  On the other hand, we have a history of reaching out to troubled youth and giving them a chance if possible.  It just seems a shame to see his efforts to date to be lost.  But, we have to put the others ahead; that is understood.  Thanks for your comments.  Probably one of those untenable situations.

    As @mrjohns2 relays, it is entirely up to the council.

    Start with the Registrar.  Call and explain the situation.  Ask if there are any Lone Scouts in your council already.  If yes, then they will most likely add this Scout.

    If no, ask if the Registrar would support you if you asked for this Scout to be added as a Lone Scout.  Although it is the SE's decision, it is the registrar who will gain the extra workload.  So, if the Registrar is on board, it makes things easier.

    If the Registrar declines, then go ahead and call your SE and ask, but expect the answer to be "No".

    If "No" then ask the SE if they would support your calling neighboring councils to see if any will accept Lone Scouts.

    Keep pushing, courteously, and you will find a way.  

  17. 6 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    Your guess is as good as mine.  They have a patrol name, but beyond that I am not sure there is anything remotely patrol related.

    OK, then you have a camping club, not a Scout Troop.

    "The patrol system is not one method in which Scouting for boys can be carried on. It is the only method." - BP

    I would submit this is where you have to start.  

    “The formation of the boys into Patrols of from six to eight and training them as separate units each under its own responsible leader is the key to a good Troop." - BP

    If you cannot get other leaders to agree to this concept, and to help implement it, then you should leave and find another Troop...one that uses the Patrol Method.

    • Upvote 2
  18. 8 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    At some point my kid is going to get fed up and then a new CC will have to be selected. 

    What does your son's patrol want to do?  Get another adult, and take them camping, if that's what the Scouts want.  Does not have to be the SM on every trip.

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 1
  19. 31 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    I was made aware on Tuesday our Council isnt doing JTE any more.  That after I had filled out the worksheet. 🙄

    @5thGenTexan, you don't need the council...  What level did you get? 

    Just order the patches, if you want them, and recognize your Scouts at the level of program they achieved.  We filled out our worksheet, sent it to our FD (we don't have an assigned DE) with a cc to our District Commissioner (we don't have an assigned Commissioner), and ordered our own patches.

    Here's a link to Gold:

    https://www.scoutshop.org/no-name-provided-656986.html

     

  20. 1 hour ago, ScouterSD said:

    Does the insurance company feel that a facility usage or affiliate agreement does not protect the Church?   Sounds 100% opposite to the UMC thinking.

    If anything happens on church property, then the church will get dragged into the lawsuit.

    "Sue everyone, and let the courts sort it out," says the lawyer corps.  (While the church hemorrhages cash in lawyer fees probably seeks a settlement.)

  21. 38 minutes ago, SSScout said:

    Teach 'em the CORRECT lyrics....

    "" "scuse me, while I kiss this guy....""     = Jimi Hendrix, please call your office......

    LOL,

    Don't know how they got this, but I remember Scouts singing "Come on Eileen! Oh, I slid on my winks..."

  22. Don't overdo it at first...  Just a tune or two during a lull around the campfire.  Don't make it your show 😜

    Make them short...  Don't do 100 bottles of root beer on the wall. 

    Don't demand that everyone sing... Youth often don't know the words, so are reluctant to sing.  They have to hear the song many times before they feel comfortable with the words.  Wanna help them?  Print out a few copies and hand them out.  Don't get upset if they wind up in the fire.  In fact, make a game of that.  Print on the bottom of it "Burn Only After Singing!!!" 

    Learn Scout Vespers... that's a good one to start with.

    Learn America (My Country 'Tis of Thee) or America the Beautiful... 

     

    • Upvote 1
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