InquisitiveScouter

2 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

Doesn't that work both ways?  And should I no longer agree to wear the big sombrero as they sing "Feliz Cumpleanos" to me at my local Mexican restaurant?  

There you go, trying to use logic again.  Silly goose...

We always announce the results of the election selection, as call-outs are hit or miss in our council.  Mostly miss.

That way, we make sure our candidates get the info they need when they need it, to make the timing for Ordeals.

1 minute ago, mrjohns2 said:

It is an awesome achievement. It is one of the most outing Scouting award. Many parts of eagle are booksmart, NMOA is outdoor-smart. You really have to put in the hours / miles. Nice work! 

Yes, he has become quite the Outdoorsman!

And I do like this award.  I would put the level of difficulty above Eagle Scout.

4 minutes ago, Leehoden said:

We have had several scouts earn this. It is now a center with rockers around it. You can earn gold bars if you earn a certain amount more time in each area. 

@Leehoden, that is the National Outdoor Achievement Award (NOAA).  That is something different.  Several NOAAs are required for National Medal for Outdoor Achievement. (NMOA)

Look for the medal requirements in Scoutbook.

or here:

https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/advancement-and-awards/noa/

I had to call an old friend who works the store in another council.  She found one for my son.

eBay will probably be best source going forward.  My gut says, since so few have earned the award, I think they may either discontinue it, or have only one source at National.

9 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Right......try to revoke the membership of someone who is gay!!!! Also, the BSA has openly stated that they do not own the local councils, and each council is autonomous with their own board of directors.  Cant have it both ways.

uh, James Dale... BSA vs Dale

They DID revoke his membership because he is gay.

And that Supreme Court decision still stands.  BSA may have changed their policy, but the right for a private organization to define its membership standards is law.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/61/boy-scouts-of-america-v-dale

2 hours ago, Leehoden said:

I am looking for advice of how other Troops keep track of outings that don't involve camping or hiking? I have tried using scoutbook calendar, but it is very cumbersome, but if it would work well I would do it more. Maybe others have had better experiences or I haven't found the shortcuts? If you log it in scoutbook  can you see it again, through any reports etc? I struggle with keeping track of water minutes, biking miles, etc for the national outdoor awards etc.

 

Thanks for your input 

You are correct...

The system is not currently designed to keep track of Riding miles nor Aquatics hours, each of which are counted for the National Outdoor Achievement Award (NOAA).

I helped my Eagle Scout keep track of his in Scoutbook.   Specifically, under the basic award for each NOAA, there is a comment which contains a log of all activities related to that award.

Sorta looks like this:

- 150 miles Horseback riding and Cycling during Cub Scout activities ( from Cub Scout records kept)

-  30 miles - ATV Program, Summer Camp - 17 Jul 2017 
-  10 miles - Cycling - Beach Camping, 18 May 2018
-  10 miles - Mountain Biking, XXXX State Park , 12 Nov 2018
= 200 miles to date (meet 200 miles requirement for basic award)

-  22 miles - Canal Path Day Trip, 10 Apr 2019
-  35 miles - Cycling, Scout Camp, 15 Jul 2019
-  11 miles - Cycling, Town Halloween Bike Ride, 25 Oct 2019
-  60 miles - Cycling Trek, Aug 2020
= 328 total to date (meets +100 miles requirement for 1st gold device)

etc, etc, etc.

Indulge me a Dad Brag??  My son just finished Wilderness First Aid over the holiday period --- the last requirement for him to earn his National Medal for Outdoor Achievement

This is system is very cumbersome, but the burden, currently, is on the Scout to keep track of his activities, other than those actually recorded in Internet Advancement (miles, nights, service hours...)

22 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Rules?  Procedures?  Who can vote?  ... This is cub scouts.  It's about asking parents to spend time with their kids outside and being active.  Leaders change all the time.  The written rule is good guidance, but there is a lot to be said for finding a way to get everyone to work well together.  

So you'll Zelle him the money, then?

10 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

People have pointed out that current documentation says DLs are members of the committee. I don’t like it, but that is what I have heard. 

Source?

13 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

There are rules and then rules.  A published budget is a useful baseline, but unless everyone buys into the planning, it's really not agreed. 

Sometimes treading lightly really helps.  I know in the past, our unit has reimbursed some groups more than others "just to keep the peace".  Specifically, some den leaders got reimbursed and I (and a few other leaders) did not submit our expenses because it was our choice to spend that money.  If it was core (advancement, books, etc), I'd always submit expenses.  If it was decorations, food, optional stuff that "I choose", I often would not.  

Is there a path that keeps the peace and that can work toward establishing more clear rules for the future?

 

Yes, @fred8033, you can send him the money via Zelle!!  That would keep the peace 😜 

We do not know "how much" communication @Armymutt did with the Committee in developing the budget.  If he sent adequate notice, and had a quorum to make and decide on the budget, then move forward with the budget you have.  Sure, you can allow for an amendment, but only through the Committee...

@Armymutt, do you have another Committee meeting scheduled, with enough time to address the question and deal with the funding, if the Committee decides to amend the budget?  This is the way to "keep the peace."  Don't be the SINGLE person who holds this up.  If needed, hold a Committee meeting via Zoom, and, if (and only if) you get a quorum to participate, then address the question.

And ONLY Committee members get to vote on it.  Parents and DLs can give input, but drive the group to a decision.  And, if the decide in a way you you don't like... well, you are a good Armymutt... you know how to take directives and follow them without liking them.

BTW, we change our budget several times during the year of execution.  There are always unplanned expenditures and questions that come up.  We build consensus, and make a decision.  We never try to make everyone happy.  If it works out that way, great.

And also BTW... as Committee Chair, you might consider not casting a vote, unless it is to break a tie.

2 hours ago, DuctTape said:

The next step of the process is the scout being tested. They would go to their SM (or whomever the SM has granted authority. I prefer the PL) to be tested on the skill they practiced. The sign-off occurs when the scout successfully passes the test. The sign-off is NOT from the practice or the skill building activity, it is a personal test. 

Concur!!

From the Scout Handbook (page 416):

"Once you feel that you have MASTERED [emphasis mine] a skill, a leader tests you and passes you on the requirement.  This could be a youth leader, or an adult leader, or a merit badge counselor. (This won't be your parent unless your parent is also a troop leader or merit badge counselor.)"

This is the written rebuttal to the "one and done" mentality.  I have had to show this to Scouts on a few occasions.  The written word has great authority 😜

Good luck!

8 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

In most cases it seems to always boil down to programming at the troop level, vs programming at the patrol level.

Example:

Troop decides to do district camporee and half the patrols/scouts do not attend because they have done that camporee multiple times.

vs

Patrols decide individually their campout some choose the camporee some do a different campout.

Some argue that there aren't enough adults to do separate patrol activities. This could be true, but unless the troop is using a bus or multiple 15 passenger vans, they will need 1 adult to drive (at most) 4-5 scouts which means 2 adults automatically per patrol just as drivers. There is your 2-deep.

We have to do a mix of both...  Four months out of the year, our PLC designates that month's outing as "Patrol", versus the rest where they do things together as a Troop.  Even on the Patrol-determined outings, sometimes we have to get two Patrols to go somewhere together due to lack of adults to cover all outings.  (We currently have six Patrols and will gain a seventh next month with Crossovers.)) 

Our guys typically do not choose to go to District or Council events.  They view them as "lame," and several Scouts on the PLC have said, for the competitive events, they are just tired of winning... LOL

There's not much ADVENTURE in our District or Council events, so they choose to go far afield for overnight events.

Yeah, it can go too far the other way, also, to where the local OA lodge is a quasi- Native American heritage preservation society.  The purpose of the Order gets lost then, too...  Too much focus on dance, drum, outfits, etc.

On 12/23/2022 at 8:13 AM, Cburkhardt said:

There is such a tangle of issues

Yes, there have been so many "levers" pulled over the last decade or so, that it is virtually impossible to sort out what the top detrimental effects on membership numbers have been.  So many factors (in no particular order): 

- The downward trend in families seeking out long lasting group associations (and the commitments that come with them.)  (Primarily religious institutions, but I believe Scouting is affected as well.)

- The trend in schools to have extracurricular activities last much, much longer: sports, band and choruses, theater, dance, clubs, etc. etc. etc.  If my kids had chosen such, they could be involved in school-sponsored extracurriculars year round.

- The trend in families to schedule out every moment of the day with some activity for their kids, which drives them to seek out additional opportunities above the school-sponsored stuff: marital arts, and travel sports teams are big around here...

- The general downward trend for Americans to trust institutions  https://news.gallup.com/poll/394283/confidence-institutions-down-average-new-low.aspx

- Fallout from the pandemic

- Inflation (and wages not keeping pace with it.)

- Growth in abilities (and attempts) to use the internet to fill the need for social connection  (although it doesn't work).  https://www.sogolytics.com/blog/how-has-technology-affected-social-interaction/

And I'm sure there are more factors...

I believe it will take another year or two to have better hindsight as to what has happened.

On 12/23/2022 at 8:13 AM, Cburkhardt said:

I hope one of our readers who has a firm grasp on membership numbers could discuss the big picture on the membership decline.  There is such a tangle of issues that will have contributed to the decline (especially the bankruptcy and its many impacts)  that I am unable to authoritatively opine on whether adding all girl dens/troops was a net membership add or subtraction.  All I can do is share my actual experience as a “big troop” scoutmaster

When we started four years ago, we were the only girl troop in our district. We were not always welcomed and I personally absorbed a lot of negative comment from a select group of uber-traditionalists.  When I took 24 girls to summer camp for the first time, the leaders of the troop next door openly despised us and me personally and continuously registered unjustified, piddling  complaints.  Our girls were sometimes harassed in their merit badge classes.  Despite this, we came in as runner-up for troop of the week and won the camp-wide games — and none of that was my doing.  The youth just organized themselves well.

Four years down the road all of that is a distant memory.  All of the traditionalists are still there  and we (and 2 additional girl troops) are still growing.  They have accepted us because they see the success.  My speculation is that there were few who left our movement because “somewhere out there is an all-girl troop participating in our program”.   None of our district’s troops folded or downsized as a result (although some were lost through COVID or churches upset about the bankruptcy).  The overwhelming bulk of criticism about girl troops I read in the media (and I read every article) came from outside the BSA.  This was mainly from columnists who inaccurately proclaimed we were fully co-ed, former members who were part of Trail Life, and leaders of GSUSA above the unit level.  The media firestorm over girls is long over and the only remaining discussion is now confined to hyper-bitter commentary from anti-BSA folks on mostly-unread corners of social media.
 

My speculation is that the effect of adding girl dens and troops has not caused a membership loss and probably netted us a gain.  Last summer girls comprised about 1/6 of the youth participating during our week.  That has to mean something positive.

Aviators have a saying....

"The flak is heaviest when you are over the target!"

Although another iteration of that is:

"If you're taking flak, you're over the target."

Sometimes, that is the best course of action. If the youth will not pony up and take responsibility, then the Supreme Chief of the Fire should consider putting the fire out for a while.

It is wonderful that your companions took note of your devotion and proposed you for this award!  And, your surprise is evidence of your ability to forget your own interests while serving others.  

Well done!

Sort of like the social credit system in China...

11 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

If there is a water source, I advocate for filtering. Only carry water for dry camps.

Be mindful that filtering is not effective against viruses.  Here is a great table showing different treatment methods and what they will do for you...

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/drinking/Backcountry_Water_Treatment-508.pdf

Everyone should be vaccinated against Hep A. 

Incubation for norovirus is 12 - 48 hours.  https://www.cdc.gov/hai/pdfs/norovirus/229110-anorocasefactsheet508.pdf

Incubation period for enteroviruses is usually 3 - 5 days.  https://www.cdc.gov/non-polio-enterovirus/about/ev-d68.html

Incubation for rotavirus is about 2 days.  https://www.cdc.gov/rotavirus/clinical.html

And there's a lot more virus-bugs out there...

The larger your group, and the longer you are out, the greater the risk you take with just filtering water.

Note that boiling is best.

If you are going to filter (small quantities for drinking) then chemically treat it, too.  Best to do this just before bedtime, as chemicals take about four hours to be effective.

Some pro tips:

1.  If you are cooking hot meals, boil a little extra water that you can leave to cool off for drinking.  NEVER pour out water you have boiled.  It is a waste of fuel.

2.  Never boil water you have taken the time and effort to filter/treat.  Again, waste of fuel.

3.  On cold weather camping trips, boil water and put in Nalgene-type bottles  (wide mouth!!!).  Put these in your sleeping bag for a comfy night's rest.  In the morning, you will have liquid (not frozen) potable water.

4.  Plan meals with a mind on water usage and cleanup.  Spaghetti = bad (huge waste of water). 

5.  Always lick your dishes clean, or wipe with a good hunk of bread.  In our Troop we say, "Clean your dishes before you wash your dishes!"

6.  Going lightweight with dehydrated meals?  After eating, clean your dishes (see above), but do not wash them... yet.  As you boil water for the next meal, sterilize your dishes in the boiling water you will be using to hydrate your meals.  (I know this idea will probably be poo-pooed, but you have to overcome your psychological barriers and look at the practicality behind it...)

1 hour ago, curious_scouter said:

One approach we've used for a long time is that on those outings each Scout brings 2 gallons (usually two 1-gallon jugs) and then each patrol has 1 igloo 5 gallon drink thing full for water bottle refill and cooking + a 5 gallon bucket with a lid for KP water.  This seems to work but with 30-40 souls generates 60-80 empty plastic containers.  They carry out what they carry in, but man... its a LOT of waste per outing.

You say this method works for you, with the real drawback being waste.  You can procure one gallon water jugs with screw on lids.... reusable = no/less waste

1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

At the rate things are trending, we'll have:

Citizenship in the Solar System

Citizenship in the Galaxy

Citizenship in the Universe

Well, probably not in the Universe until ZIP codes are assigned.

I just have to agree with sentiments that Merit Badges are more and more academic.  Less and less experience.

Me, just a nobody, I can build a fire in a pouring rain. Period. And yeah, in a torrential rain.  I am a master at it.  OK, not a master, GENIUS.  I am really good at building fires.  Get lost in the Wilderness, get lost with me, if you are so lucky.  (And my 2 degrees from a land grant university will not save my life.) What will save my life (and yours) is what I learned in Scouting.

And that is how it is.

Experience. 

Just make sure you remember my correct pronouns when we get lost together.

Your Majesty / His Majesty

10 hours ago, JoeBob said:

When our troop did a week of rafting instead of summer camp, we offered 3 MBs:

Wood carving - projects and supervised practice at each campsite.

Wilderness survival - reading on the road, and 'build your own shelter and sleep in it' 20 yards into the woods from the vans.

Nature - "Yes little Johnny, that is bear poop, know as 'scat'; and those are little bells in it."

Oh, so you were in grizzly country!?

13 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I am not even going to try to explain the Psychology of introverts.....  Would be futile.

(Disclaimer:  this post is tongue-in-cheek!!!)

It's intrinsically the same as extroverts... both are dealing with narcissism and a feeling of vulnerability and embarrassment 😜  At least, I can speak for the extroverts. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201601/7-signs-covert-introvert-narcissist

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Unfortunately because BSA is a private organization with the right to select its members, they do not need to acknowledge a CO's investigation, let alone a criminal one, where the volunteer has been exonerated. They can still permanently remove an individual. My friend has never been reinstated in the BSA, despite a criminal investigation being done, and proving her story was the correct one.

And how does that situation square with "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law."???

Rhetorical... it doesn't.