InquisitiveScouter

13 hours ago, Tron said:

The organization knows how to recruit but units dont know how to retain.

17 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Scouting is more transactional now, if kids join they get X, as opposed to when kids joined many years ago they joined for fun and adventure.  Admittedly all of society is now way more transactional, but BSA or Scouting America is more now about what YOU can get from the program and many time not what your GIVE to the program. 

These two ideas go hand in hand.  If you join a program only for what you get out of it, you are much less likely to give to the program.  And, unless that attitude changes for adults (we kind of expect it for youth, don't we?), you will see the program wither.

For example, so few adults in our area are willing to give up their second (or third) vacation of the year to take kids to the woods for a week.  And when they do, they expect.... wait for it... a vacation!

Same holds true for weekend camping.  We have great difficulty in implementing the Patrol Method, in that patrols sometimes want to do their own activity over a weekend, but we just cannot get the adults required for two-deep to cover the number of patrols we have out doing things.  Due to lack of adult volunteers, we often have to force them back together for a quasi-troop event.

If we (collectively) are unable to deliver the promises of adventure that we have made, they leave, and rightfully so.

Adventure = retention

10 hours ago, Eaglewarr7 said:

I've been told by my COR for our Troops and Cub Scout Pack that the old service Troops are no longer available and that the Troops are no longer required to help their Charter Organization. Is this True? As the 2nd Vice and District Scouting Chairman for our Legion district, I have asked our scouts to help the posts several times, and my membership is now upset with them because when we need the Scouts, they do not show up. Period. We do flags on Veterans' Graves as well as Flag retirements. We were asked to help them do Scouting for Food. They did not do it at all. I've got over 30 years as a scouter. The adult leadership seems to me to have lost its way because it will not even ask the boys about doing things. It kinda seems to me they are afraid to ask the scouts to do anything and when the Scoutmaster is asked, all replies are that the adults do not run the Troop, the Boys do. And if they do, ask  for a request for 6 months out. Also, the boys voted to wear kilts instead of Scout Pants. The colored kilts have been added to the Scout youth promotion package now, too. My membership is not happy about that either because it violates the national Policy. I've asked my Council about that, and they told me it was ok because it was a heritage thing. And our adults get offended when they are asked to be in proper uniform. Our Troop is getting big but I think they need to focus on doing things to help out their Charter, too.

 

 

 

 

 

I have been Scouting since the 80's and have never heard of a "Service Troop."  However, when I did an internet search, a Service Troop is described as an ad hoc unit formed to address a specific task, and is liken to a "Service Corps", formed at and for specific events, like a council camporee, national jamboree, a county or state fair, etc.

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As far as I can remember, no Troop is ever "required" to help their CO with CO events.  But it is just good policy.  A Troop is a guest in the CO's space, so it expected they would provide some help to further the CO's interests, insofar as those interests are aligned with those of Scouting.  Adorning veteran's graves with flags for Memorial Day Observances is a clear cut example of that alignment.

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The adult leaders' responses are correct... it is the Scouts who are supposed to run the Troop.  But, this could also be a convenient excuse for them to ignore or sideline your request...

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So, is your COR a member of the Legion?  If not, that is a mistake, IMHO, and should be corrected post haste...  If the COR is a member of the Legion, then the Legion Commander (the Institution Head) should ask (tell) the COR to set expectations with the unit for some service to the Chartering Organization.

That is a negotiation... zero is not the right answer, and weekly is not the right answer, either... so, you have boundary limits.  Find your happy place in there.  We try to do a quarterly service for our CO (a church).  Scouts will often set up tables and chairs for church events, remove fallen tree limbs from the adjacent cemetery, and clean/decorate (with flag) veterans' graves for Memorial Day.  We also advise Eagle Scout candidates about their opportunities for service projects with our CO.  We have built playgrounds and prayers gardens for our CO, or helped staff fundraising events like bake sales and bbq's.  Our Scouts also participate in the service and put on a kit for each Scout Sunday. 

If you get pushback from the Scouts, unit leaders, or council, then simply terminate your charter.... which begs the question, does your COR have a current (signed) charter from the council for your unit for 2026?    http://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/524-95626-Annual-Charter-Agreement.pdf

Take a look and read line II A. 3.  the CO must "Refrain from using the Scouting brand as a means to imply Scouting America’s endorsement of the objectives of the Charter Organization, except with respect to youth development, consistent with the goals and objectives of the Scouting program."  [Underlining added for emphasis.]

To elaborate more on this... part of the Legion's reason for existence is covered in their Preamble https://www.legion.org/about/organization/preamble

If you at just three of those principles: "To foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism; To preserve the memories and incidents of our associations in all wars; To inculcate a sense of individual obligation to the community, state and nation; " , then you can rightly draw the conclusion that placing flags on veteran's graves meets those objectives, AND that planting flags is also "consistent with the goals and objectives of the Scouting Program" 

So the Legion is fully within it's Chartering Organization rights and duties, under the Annual Charter, to require their Scout units to participate in this event.

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Six months lead time is not bad, because many units plan their calendar that far in advance.  Since you know when Memorial Day is going to happen, you can put in a standing request that (for example) the Scout unit must support flag planting on the Saturday before Memorial Day each year.  You can work out the wording of that with them.

Now the real question comes... If the Scouts refuse, does anyone in the Legion have the courage to terminate the unit?

If you do not have a current signed Charter for the council, then you can terminate the unit immediately, and refuse them from using your facilities or property (trailers and unit gear belongs to the CO.)  If you have a signed charter, then you must abide by that agreement and wait for it to expire.  You do not have to renew 😜

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Kilts are not a part of the official uniform.  "Heritage thing" is the wrong answer.  If someone at Council actually said this, they are way out of line and do not know what they are talking about.  See the Guide to Awards and Insignia, for example ; https://www.scouting.org/resources/insignia-guide/

Part VII, Official Uniforms ; "The official uniforms    authorized    as    evidence    of    official    relationship    to    Scouting    America    are    those    approved    by    Scouting    America    from    time    to    time,    as    illustrated    and    correctly    described    in    the    handbooks,    catalogs,    and    other    official    guidelines    of    Scouting    America.    The    official    uniforms    and    parts    thereof    may    be    issued    only    as    authorized    by    Scouting    America    and    sold    either    directly    by    the    National    Service    Center    through    responsible    local    merchants    designated    as    local    Scouting    distributors    or    through    designated    local    councils.    Local    Scouting    distributors    may    be    appointed    and    licensed    and    the    licenses    revoked    only    by    the    National    Service    Center,    but    chartered    local    councils    may    make    recommendations    for    such    actions.    Imitation    of    United    States    Army,    Navy,    or    Marine    Corps    uniforms    is    prohibited,    in    accordance    with    the    provisions    of    the    organization’s    Congressional    Charter."

So, again, I ask... does anyone at the Legion have the courage to hold the unit accountable?  It is your unit after all...

Good luck

Just now, Tron said:

Not that I saw, a lot of the slide deck data was not shared this year. 

Maybe churn through the links here???

If you find something relevant, please let us know

https://nam.scouting.org/presentations/

On 5/15/2026 at 12:19 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

15 May 2026 numbers:

Total Unit-Based Youth:  754,640  

- This is a loss of 12,754 from end of March number, which was 767,394.

- End of April number was 762,883, or a loss of 4,511 from end of March.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Reporting 887K when system shows 755K, or 15% less.  It cannot be that hard to post a current number on a slide. 

You gotta go back to Dec 2025/Jan 2026 to get near 887K total youth, and that includes unit based plus Learning for Life.

Do you think the NAM number includes LFL?

Beginning of June update:

Total Unit-Based Youth:  746,579, down 8,061 from last month, or -1.1% 

(this does not include numbers for Learning for Life)

19 minutes ago, Tron said:

Correct. This is correct. The fundraising is supposed to go towards funding program and training; however, so much is being spent to just subsidize professional salaries.

We absolutely have the technology to eliminate councils. We have to do a 360 analysis and realize that we could easily get rid of 100 or more councils. 

Lose the bloated jobs... save the camps.

On 5/26/2026 at 9:54 AM, DuctTape said:

Some good suggestions @PACAN.

I would add a change to the mission of the Councils and Districts to solely be "support the units". Nothing else matters. All metrics used to assess performance of Councils, Districts and their staff should be based only on their support of the units.

We have the technology to eliminate most of what paid professionals at councils do now.

And, I have been thinking about this a lot lately... what SHOULD council do for units, other than provide program opportunities that units cannot get (easily) on their own?  Shooting sports (SORRY!! Range and Target Activities), higher level aquatics (sailing , kayaking, canoeing, rowing, lifesaving), and climbing....

You do not need swimming pools. (Although they are helpful.)  But you do need a safe swimming hole

You do not need dining halls. (I would submit these are actually detrimental to the skills needed for outdoorsmanship and campcraft .)  Scouts should be cooking for themselves.

You do not need hot showers. (Although they are nice.)  Scouts should learn field hygiene and sanitation.

You do not need flush toilets.  (Although they are nice, too.)  See above.  I would admit that, due to the number of people you'd like to access your camp, that pit toilets would be a most helpful concession.  And local laws may be prohibitive in many places...

Heck, you do not even need running water.  (But you do need a potable water source, which could include bringing your own.)

You need a patch of decent ground or woods.  Imagine how easy and cost effective this would be if we did not have all that infrastructure.  A local council should have a good sized camp to provide access to the outdoors.

It really isn't that difficult to live under canvas for a week. 

When BP said "A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room" he was not talking about the monster of summer camp merit badge mills we have created across the country.

12 hours ago, jcousino said:

Does not trained; does it release national liability if you mess up by doing something you're not trained to do?

Yes, it does release national from liability.  "Doing something you are not trained to do" translates into negligence, specifically when you cause harm and you had a duty of care for the youth.

To date, national has provided a legal umbrella over volunteers, or included them in settlements, in many civil actions.  National is not going to defend you in criminal cases, of course.  (Or civil cases resulting from criminal acts... sexual abuse, for example)

However, in the last few years, I have asked some Council Executives their thoughts on this matter.  Most have expressed the thought that National's (and councils') patience is running thin with leaders who act outside the scope of the program or training, and injury results.  (See numerous stories on lightning deaths and the resultant lawsuits...)

But, they also know that the day National (or a council) walks away from a volunteer, there will be a mass volunteer exodus, and the program will surely fail. 

3 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

Actually, yes.  By coincidence there is a copy sitting in front of me right now that I filled out last week. 

Rhetorical question to point out that there has been no communication on release of this new, all-important document, which units use day-to-day...

7 hours ago, skeptic said:

I suspect a few of my posts on District pages have been wiped, as the council has the office as a moderator on them.  But, I generally share stuff I get from the National groups, like Commissioners, and especially On Scouting.  I find many are not aware of this, and local council often  does not pass stuff along.  Their newsletters are always months out of date.  IF it came from a National source, I feel it should be okay to share it.  Tough if they do not want your to.  

 

I have never been impressed with the communication prowess of the organization, nor the flow of information from National to units. 

With the old interweb thingy at our fingers now,  you'd think the simple solution is a "Daily Read File" or some such.  National posts all policy and procedure changes there, and anyone can access and read.  

The hard part would be keeping duff, fluff, puff, and stuff out of it... you know, propaganda, feel good, and image pieces like you see here https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/

Like this:  Did you know that National has released an updated Annual Health and Medical Record (2026 version)???

46 minutes ago, Tron said:

Im not sure. I think they might be reporting "total unique youth served" which may include LFL AND other headcount or NO LFL and other headcount. I have not completely figured out the total unique youth served calculation.

Regardless, you are correct, something is off in how numbers are being reported.

My bet is that the number includes multiples.  So, a Cub Scout that crosses over this year counts as two memberships.

A Scout in a Troop who is also a Venturer counts as two memberships.

I suspect it also includes all those who were on the rolls until recently.  That is, if a youth had a renewal due in early 2026, but did not renew, they still count as a youth served in the program for the year.

It would be telling to see a breakdown of the criteria for inclusion into the 887K number.

I'd bet that net is as wide as possible

15 May 2026 numbers:

Total Unit-Based Youth:  754,640  

- This is a loss of 12,754 from end of March number, which was 767,394.

- End of April number was 762,883, or a loss of 4,511 from end of March.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Reporting 887K when system shows 755K, or 15% less.  It cannot be that hard to post a current number on a slide. 

You gotta go back to Dec 2025/Jan 2026 to get near 887K total youth, and that includes unit based plus Learning for Life.

Do you think the NAM number includes LFL?

@gracebanks

You can bring whatever you want!  But remember, you have to carry it

And everyone hikes his own hike...

For a six day trip, I'd bring one set of clothing to wear, some spare things, and one set of clothing for sleep.

The set I wear in late spring/early summer Appalachia:

Short sleeve shirt (do not bring a long sleeve... if you get chilly, put on your rain jacket) and a spare.

Shorts (do not bring long pants... is you get chilly, put on your rain pants)  Quick drying fabric.  No spares.

Socks and an extra pair of socks if they get really wet or you have to wash a pair... Every time you stop for a break, take off your boots and socks, and let your feet dry out a bit.  Put a bit of body powder on your dry feet (not foot powder, because I also use body powder on pits and groin before bed... dual purpose) [Don't use foot powder on your body.  If you have had any chafing on inner thighs or groin, you will regret the extra menthol in foot powder.  If you are a masochist... well, then, enjoy  )

Underwear and an extra pair.

Once you wear something until stinky, wash/rinse it... hang it on the outside of your pack to dry while hiking.  Or, hang it up at camp... always be drying something

Try your best to go to bed clean.  Sometimes this means just wiping off with a few unscented wipes.  Five F's done in this order:  Face (and head/neck) Front (torso, arms, arm pits), Feet (feet and legs), Fanny (groin and butt), Fingers (hand sanitize and wipe for your hands if you cannot wash them)  Some body powder on pits and groin/butt, and then into your sleep wear.  Do not wear anything you hiked in to bed... you'll regret it.  Air out bed clothes in the morning before packing up.  [And do not put on the powder inside your tent.]

Expect to be ripe before the end of the trip.  If you don't stink after six days on the trail, you did not do it right.  Go back and start over

And no, I do not bring deodorant.

I do bring a set of water shoes (toe protection) because I'm prone to jump into any body of water I can   They serve double duty as camp shoes.

Have a great hike!

5 minutes ago, Tron said:

The rumor about renewals was confirmed and briefed at the NAM today. All renewals are moving to February.

But unit recharters will stay at 31 Dec??

I perceive no appetite at the unit, district, council, or national levels to police this.

Enforcing any kind of integrity into the process would hamper the money flow of summer camps and merit badge events, and make Jimmy or Jenny less competitive on their college applications.

I have had numerous discussions with parents who absolutely expect that, if they pay their $600 camp fee, then their child had better have a multitude of merit badges to show for it. 

Many parents don't give a hoot about values, ethics, and morals.  And we wonder why so many kids do not join Scouting, or if they do, do not stick with it.

Once they realize the emperor has no clothes, the ones with a good measure of integrity are tempted to pull their kids from the program. 

As long as merit badges are available for sale (and I do not mean the pieces of cloth...), then we will have this problem.

Pay your fee, get your degree?

7 minutes ago, jcousino said:

NO feedback; another paper filed in the trash. The only action from council would be if the youth did not receive their mb, as when parents complain. There is no QA in any merit badges as long as the Scout gets their badge and no  parent complaints; all is well  mb have become meaningless. Like the Scouts' ranks. sorry no honor in scouting at the council levels 

 

A sad, but true, indictment...

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

When our council started adding a "fee" for these types of things a majority of our leaders sound off negatively.  After poor attendance due to the fee stuff, partly due to units refusing to particpate, they revised the program.  They now find sponsors for costs and no scout is charged.  Guess what, attendance grew dramatically.  The next step then was a group meting of leaders where our concerns were hear, mostly not prepping the prerequisites and working on unit communications.  I personally stopped doing counseling for the events, and I told them why, though part was just my age and related issues, it was also getting few follow ups from the partials.  Those that came prepared, also tended to follow up and arrange a meeting to finish.  And that is how I feel it should shake out.  I should note that I did have a few parents and a leader or two that were upset I did not sign the blue cards automatically.  But, I also had a couple that were glad I did not.  

 

Guide to Advancement, para 7.0.2.3...

"It is sometimes reported that Scouts who have received merit badges through group instructional settings have not fulfilled all the requirements. To offer a quality merit badge program, council and district advancement committees should ensure the following are in place for all group instructional events.

• A culture is established for merit badge group instructional events that partial completions are acceptable expected results.

• A guide or information sheet is distributed in advance of events that promotes the acceptability of partials, explains how merit badges can be finished after events, lists merit badge prerequisites, and provides other helpful information that will establish realistic expectations for the number of merit badges that can be earned at an event. "

If only we would follow our own literature

10 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

THAT. IS. IT!  (caps for emphasis).

One district had an MBU on the same weekend for decades. Well organized, experts for MBCs, etc. However council was not making any money off of it. They created their own, the same exact weekend, but at a much higher price. Original group followed NCAC, and raised costs a bit so the council could make $1/person profit. You think council would be happy?

Council cancelled the event one month before it was to occur, and after the registration deadline to their MBU. 

1 Timothy 6:10

At last night's meeting, one of my Scouts proudly presented a counselor-signed blue card for a merit badge.  (No leader signature.)  He had attended, on short notice, a "merit badge event" at a local museum (where he had to pay a fee)  and had been counselor-approved for a badge.

When I asked him about the badge, I sprinkled in the questions I always ask...

1.  Did you read the requirements for the merit badge? "No"

2.  Did you talk with a Troop leader before meeting with the counselor? "No"

3.  Did the counselor review the requirements for the merit badge with you before starting? "No"

So then, we reviewed the requirements....  one of the requirements was a task that he could not have completed at the event...

4.  Did the counselor ask you to bring any work you had completed ahead of time? "No"

5.  So how did the counselor see your work for requirement X ??  "He never saw it." (Later, at home, I check the website for this event, and there are no pre-requisites listed.)

6.  Oh?  Well, did you complete requirement X?  "Yes, I did it at home after I got back."  Would you show me that work?  He does... Good job!

7.  But, the counselor gave you a signed and completed blue card without having X done? "Yes"

OK, thanks!  Hey, let's review the instructions in your Scout Handbook on how to earn a merit badge (page 416).  We review together, and I emphasize the appropriate points...  I review blue card instructions with him.  I show him the statement on the blue card which says "The applicant has personally appeared before me and demonstrated to my satisfaction that all requirements have been met for the..."  We talk about the meaning of "Trustworthy" and "Obedient", and whether the counselors actions reflected those values, and what he, the Scout, should do in a case like this.  (Let a leader know  )

I signed the card and congratulated him on his badge.

So, given that, in the past, I have never once gotten feedback on any of the concerns I submitted, once again I submitted Reporting Merit Badge Counseling Concerns. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-800_WB.pdf

Do you think I'll get any constructive feedback on this one?

16 minutes ago, PACAN said:

Just remove all requirements and call it a day.

Might as well, with the posts that we see all around....

Would also prevent showboating..., I chose not to post any links but...

For those of you who are serious MB Counselors, like me, you doubt any who are awarded all merit badges,

Notice I use the term "awarded" versus "earned".

All of your posts help support the argument for eliminating the age requirement on Eagle Scout.

If we remove the 18 year old requirement, it removes the focus on the destination, and helps us turn the spotlight more on the journey

On 5/1/2026 at 3:26 PM, Tron said:

Search on the scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/ for "accommodation".

 

Its all in there, worded weirdly, and I swear different than the last time I read it. 

They have been making changes without announcing or annotated the change.

Not a great regulatory practice

1 hour ago, Tron said:

Golden Spread and South Plains councils just announced a merger, a fast one, they said the merger will be complete June 1st.

Just in time to order new sales merch for Jamboree

6 hours ago, skeptic said:

Work at finding liaisons with other youth groups, including maybe church groups and such.  Put together a cooperative or two with local outdoor and sporting stores that run programs for climbing and so on.  If feasible, work with local professional groups to use the site for spot training opportunities.  Make serious cooperative out reach to local colleges and schools to develop teaching sites at the camp.  All things that could be workable, or so it seems to me.  Setting rates would need to be fair, and not made to maximize any profit  The main thing would be to simply keep trying new ideas and finding cooperative options Corporate weekends might be offered where they could use the sites for company gatherings.  The goal woould be to make the property viable, but also to have the community see it as an option.   Working with unions might be viable, both in the city and at camp facilities.  Union does training at the camp and the camp gets things fixed professionally.  Be creative, and if it does not pan out, try other things.  Some camps may have the type of location to grow Christmas trees, so that becomes part of the prograam and support.  If the camps have unique locations with interesing geograpy, or in our case a fscsimile fort, offer it for movie sets; maybe even incorporate it as part of the MB program to do that.  Keep that "can't" at bay.  

Nah... let's just log it and get some quick cash.  Who cares if the forest is gone, erosion starts, half the camp looks like a disaster area, and wildlife habitat gets destroyed?

10 minutes ago, PACAN said:

My friend sent me the end of March numbers 

 

     2026.  767394

      2025    949373

 

i don’t know if those numbers include LFL

 

 

 

I can confirm those are numbers in the system for end of March 2025 and 2026.  Those are the total unit based, and do not include LFL.

12 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

As we are well into April now (quick check of the calendar).  Wonder what the numbers are now? 

My intuition tells me that an organization based and financed by membership and units that does not in fact publicly publish the figures about member and units likely has a growth issue with member and units.

Call me crazy

I posted system numbers on 01 Apr.  They have changed slightly:

Total Current Youth on 01 Apr was 782,466 (this includes LFL): 18 Apr number is 792,273. ( +9807, or + 1.25%)

Total Current Unit-Based Youth on 01 Apr was  749,343  (this is Crews, Posts, Ships, Troops, & Packs):  18 Apr is 756,627 (+7284, or + 0.97%)

End of 2025 Total Unit-Based reported on 01 Apr was 877,399  (Total including LFL 907,946), number remains same

So that means, from end of Dec 2025 to now, the total unit-based drop is 120,772 or a 13.76% loss

Sorry, my 01 Apr calculation was wrong... I had subtracted current unit-based from previous total youth... should have worked with numbers in the same column.  My error on 01 Apr painted a rosier picture than reality.