InquisitiveScouter
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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter
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From the Youth Application:
"Parent Agreement. I have read the Scout Oath and Scout Law, and I want my child to join Scouting. I will assist them in abiding by the policies of Scouting America and the chartered organization. I will: • Serve as an adult partner while my child is a Lion or Tiger."
The parent has some supervisory responsibility in this, at least for their own child.
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Also there:
"Mandatory Reporting All persons involved in Scouting must immediately report to local authorities any good-faith suspicion or belief that any child is or has been physically or sexually abused; physically or emotionally neglected; exposed to any form of violence or threat; or exposed to any form of sexual exploitation including the possession, manufacture, or distribution of child pornography, online solicitation, enticement, or showing of obscene material. No person may abdicate this reporting responsibility to any other person."
This verbatim message is also purveyed through SYT and the Guide to Safe Scouting.
All registered adults present are mandatory reporters... this is one area I think paid professionals, COR's and volunteers mutually fail at... discussing what this means and what their responsibilities are. The basic mentality I see is that many people think SYT applies only to sexual assault.
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From the Annual Health and Medical Record (which parents must sign):
NOTE: Due to the nature of programs and activities, the Boy Scouts of America and local councils cannot continually monitor compliance of program participants or any limitations imposed upon them by parents or medical providers.
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And there are many questions here...
-- What is an "indoor snowball fight"?
See G2SS Prohibited Activities #15. Activities where participants shoot or throw objects at each other, such as rock-throwing, paintball, laser or archery tag, sock fights, or dodgeball https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/#b
-- Was this "violence" or was is a rough-and-tumble game where a large kid fell on a small one and hurt him? This may have been perceived initially as an injury due to the activity, rather than "violence."
-- Were the Scout leaders actually negligent? I can see something like this getting out of control and an injury happening really fast. They will have to explain the "indoor snowball fight" vs Prohibited Activities list, though... that is where a claim of negligence would have grounds
-- OK, the "Scoutmaster" (probably means Cubmaster or Den Leader, but OK) was outside... but were there two other registered adults present? If yes, kind of a moot argument there. (That he was rumored vaping is moot... he/she could have been in the bathroom for all we know.) "All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants." Was he vaping in an area away from participants?? If so, and any two other registered leaders were present, this argument falls away, too...
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I relayed in a post sometime back... our SE told volunteers (at a type of fireside chat) that National's patience with volunteers violating policies was wearing thin, and there are elements within the organization who advocate not defending volunteers who do, or offering settlements based on their non-compliance with policies. This one will be interesting.
Like @skeptic says, "Follow the rules people"
And like @Eagle1993 advises "Just get excess liability insurance and follow BSA policy and you will be fine." , which would be great legal advice, too, if he were lawyer
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From the G2SS (key overall points underlined)
GENERAL INFORMATION
When it comes to the safety guide, here are some important points for you to remember:
Know the Guide—All participants in official Scouting activities should become familiar with the document and applicable Scouting America program literature or manuals. The guide is a resource as well as a summary of the materials provided by Scouting America.
Know the Law—Be aware that state or local government regulations supersede Scouting America practices, policies, and guidelines.
Know the Risks—The Guide to Safe Scouting does not cover every possible activity, but it provides guidance on how to evaluate risks and proceed safely if explicit requirements do not exist. Check out the Activity Planning and Risk Assessment section.
Know the Restrictions—The document includes a list of restricted or prohibited activities.
Know the Limits—The document contains age-appropriate guidelines for activities. Find out which and when certain activities are appropriate for particular age groups.
Know the Program—The guide points to other Scouting America program documents such as Safe Swim Defense, the National Shooting Sports Manual, and additional program materials.
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30 minutes ago, FireStone said:
Is that nation-wide? The decision summary reads like it's only focused on California.
SECTION 2. Clause 1. The Judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States,—between Citizens of the same State claiming Land under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.
So, yes.... applies nation-wide. A SCOTUS ruling is the "law of the land". As examples, Brown v. Board of Education, and Miranda v. Arizona.
Enjoy
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6 minutes ago, FireStone said:
Just a point of emphasis: The schools are keeping the trans identity a secret, not teachers. Teachers are often legally restricted from disclosing gender identity or sexual orientation when a student confides in them but is withholding that information from their own parents. It varies by state but this is common practice. Board of Ed, lawyers, admins, they're the ones making the decision not to disclose.
Some teachers want to talk to the parents about it but they are not allowed to.
SCOTUS just ruled on this... Mirabella v Bonta
https://www.aalrr.com/newsroom-alerts-4207
That is now prohibited in government, as it violates parents' rights.
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1 minute ago, Tron said:
In my council the SB is just another good-ole-boys club award. A few years ago a person got the SB who was not even position trained, never did anything other than make up his own non-sense, had to be removed from a committee due to incompetence. There is a very active volunteer scouter in my council who has a group of about 20 of us (this year, the number varies by year) trying to get him the SB for several years and we can't even get any feedback as to why he keeps being denied. And councils and national wonder why volunteers take their time and money and walk away from the program.
I served Scouting multiple decades without that recognition. Later in life, I was blessed with success in the markets and large retirement pension, and so made a donation to our local council endowment. Was awarded SB that same year. Coincidence?
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5 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
You went on a Chat GPT binge of legal advice and opinions.
No... just Google, but the response does use an AI assist.
None of that was legal advice, btw. That is an outline of what civil law suits could be brought and how they would be looked at. Nothing about that tells a client what to do.
The only advice I gave to @FireStone was "I urge you to let the parents in your unit know (tactfully and discreetly) if there is a transgender child in the Troop, and allow them to decide the best course of action for their own child." Which is what any reasonable person should do. And you do not need a law degree to be a reasonable person.
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1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:
Political winds change and lawsuits could come from the other direction in just a few years. Let's avoid a bunch of non lawyers on this forum from giving legal advice.
Clearly stated "check with legal counsel in your state."
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45 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:
Not following school or program safety policies
I just re-read this and saw the blurb above, too...
National has issued no clarification on registration policy.
No mention of it here:
Now, would someone please explain what this gobbledygook means?
"Memorializing our existing practices for membership registration and safeguarding youth"(This from the email we all got on 27 Feb.)
Here is the current registration policy,
"It is the philosophy of Scouting to welcome all eligible youth, regardless of gender, race, ethnic background, sexual orientation, or gender identification, who are willing to accept Scouting’s values and meet any other requirements of membership."
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However, it seems Hegseth came away from the agreement with National with a different perception of what they had agreed upon...
3. “Scouting America will modify its policy to make clear that membership will be based solely on biological sex at birth and not gender identity. That means that the application, any application, will have only two sex designations, male and female. The application must match the applicant’s birth certificate.
The secretary noted, “Scouting will also make clear that biological boys and girls will not be allowed to occupy or share intimate spaces together. Toilets, showers, tents, anywhere like that.”
https://dailycitizen.focusonthefamily.com/can-scouting-america-be-trusted/
Watch the video link, particularly at timestamp 3:47.
Over the weekend, the article says, Krone took a different tack...
If Scouting America does not make those policy modifications, look for more pressure "...in the next six months."
Here's an AP article also: https://apnews.com/article/scouting-america-pentagon-military-boy-scouts-14a5fc1521fcd1e51103638f6f504214
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1 hour ago, FireStone said:
Why would I have a lawsuit on my hands? I'm just doing what my Council is doing, we're continuing to sign up kids and not checking birth certificates.
Google is your friend... and so is your legal counsel. Key in on "negligence and failure to supervise" in the results below.
Exposure could be ruled as abuse in many states. YMMV. Again, check with legal counsel in your state.
As it would most likely be a civil case, there'd be a jury. So, it would ultimately be up to them.
I underlined a pertinent point in there... I wholeheartedly believe a jury would see it as unreasonable on your part that you did not inform the minor's parents about the situation before any "damage" was done.
I urge you to let the parents in your unit know (tactfully and discreetly) if there is a transgender child in the Troop, and allow them to decide the best course of action for their own child.
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Who Can Be Held Liable in These Cases?
If a child was abused by another child, most state laws allow a civil claim against the people or organizations that had a duty to protect them. These third-party claims focus on negligence and failure to supervise.
Potential defendants may include:
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Parents or legal guardians of the offending child
If the parents knew their child posed a risk and failed to intervene, they may be held liable for failing to properly supervise or control their child’s behavior. -
Schools or teachers
If the abuse happened at school or during school-related activities, the district may be liable for failing to supervise students, ignoring red flags, or allowing risky situations to occur. -
Daycare providers or babysitters
These individuals and facilities have a legal duty to monitor children in their care. Allowing unsupervised contact, ignoring warning signs, or failing to act on complaints can result in civil liability. -
Churches, camps, or youth programs
Any organization that oversees group activities for children must ensure that their staff follow clear guidelines for supervision and safety. Failing to separate children with behavioral issues or allowing unsafe environments may be grounds for a lawsuit. -
Therapists or counselors
In rare cases, a professional who knew about harmful behaviors but did not report or address them may also face liability.
What Must Be Proven in a Civil Claim?
To succeed in a civil case involving peer-to-peer abuse, the legal team must show that the defendant acted negligently. This means proving that they failed to act in a way that a reasonable person or organization would have under similar circumstances.
Examples of negligence may include:
- Leaving children unsupervised in restrooms, locker rooms, or private areas
- Ignoring reports or behavioral red flags about a child’s aggressive or sexual conduct
- Failing to separate children after an initial incident
- Not following school or program safety policies
- Failing to notify parents or law enforcement after a report
Each case depends on the specific facts, including the age of the children involved, the setting, and whether adults had an opportunity to intervene.
How Are These Cases Handled in Court?
Courts treat these cases with care and seriousness. The goal is to protect the survivor while examining whether any adult or institution failed in their duty to provide a safe environment.
Most civil cases involving minors are handled confidentially. Protective orders may be issued to keep the names of the children private. If the case moves forward, the court may appoint a guardian ad litem to represent the survivor’s best interests.
Damages in these cases can include:
- Medical and mental health treatment
- Emotional pain and suffering
- Educational support or school changes
- Long-term therapy or trauma recovery services
- Punitive damages in cases of severe negligence
Can These Cases Be Resolved Without a Trial?
Yes. Many civil cases involving child abuse settle out of court. This can provide families with a resolution that includes financial support, institutional changes, or formal apologies without requiring a full trial.
Attorneys works with families to decide the best course of action. Some prefer to pursue a public case to raise awareness, while others seek a private resolution focused on healing.
Taking Action After Peer-to-Peer Abuse
If your child has been harmed by another child, it is completely normal to feel overwhelmed and unsure about what steps to take next. These situations are emotionally complex and often come with a mix of shock, confusion, anger, and grief. Parents may question how this could happen, whether anyone noticed warning signs, and what can be done to protect their child moving forward.
In many cases, families also struggle with silence. Schools, camps, or organizations may downplay the incident or attempt to resolve the matter quietly. Meanwhile, your child may be dealing with trauma, fear, or shame that makes it difficult for them to talk about what happened. You may feel alone in advocating for their safety and healing.
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Parents or legal guardians of the offending child
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37 minutes ago, Eagledad said:
I can't tell the motive, but Inquisitivescout points out rightly the risk of being all things to all scouts in this culture. Especially in a program where camping is the arena.
What I find fascinating is that both sides of the cultural spectrum believe theirs is the best approach for the growth and maturity of youth going into adulthood.
Barry
Here is my motive:
I have my own opinions, but I would never foist them on the rest of the Troop.
In January 2017, when BSA said they would allow transgender boys in the program, we presented the issue to the Chartered Organization (CO). The CO (in their regular meeting with the Institution Head (IH)) said they would fully support allowing transgender boys in Troop, but they left the decision up to the parents and the leaders who are doing the job. We then had an "all hands" meeting with parents. About 35 attended, out of 70ish. We presented the choice to them, and the decision was unanimous... we would not accept transgender boys into the Troop, as this did not align with the way they wanted their boys raised and educated. (In back room discussions, several families let me know that if the group chose to accept them, they would leave Scouting.)
In October 2017, when the opportunity arose to create a separate girls Troop (starting 01 February 2019), we presented our CO with the option. The CO (in their regular meeting with the IH) said they would fully support a girls Troop. We then had another "all hands" meeting with parents. About 35 attended, out of 70ish (basically the same folks). We presented the choice to them of
1. Remain a boy only Troop
2. Start a girls Troop and share "committees" and gear for support
3. Keep boys and girls programs and support separate (if someone else started a girls Troop there)
They chose #1.
Last fall/winter, after BSA ended the "pilot" mixed Troop, and gave the option for Troops to be combined, we, once again, informed our CO of the development. Once again, the CO gave support, but deferred to the Troop adults actually doing the work, and parents whose responsibility it it to safeguard their child's upbringing. Once again, we met with parents. And, once again, they chose to remain a boy only Troop.
Our parents run the spectrum from left to right. When the decisions actually "hit home", and would affect their won sons, it was amazing that, unanimously, they chose to go the way they did. Their was no dissent, and no one felt offended nor decided to leave the Troop because of these decisions.
I stick to the program, and let parents make well-informed choices for their Scouts. They all appreciate the transparency, and the acknowledgement that others may believe differently.
Although it has not happened, our collective approach, if a transgender boy applied to our unit, would be to welcome them to Scouting, but steer them to another Troop more suited to their situation. (And we have good rapport with that other Troop.)
Our Scout Executive was perfectly fine with this approach.
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1 hour ago, FireStone said:
I'm not checking birth certificates and trans youth are welcome in my troop, you think that's abuse. We're miles apart ideologically.
I'm good with where I'm at on this, alongside the many councils that have officially expressed the same stance.
If you think this is abuse, you probably should report it.
Be very careful.
If, Janey (who is really Jimmy) is in a tent with Jenny, and Jenny's parents do not know that Janey is Jimmy, then if Jimmy's jimmy gets seen by Jenny, then you may have a law suit on your hands.
And when they subpoena your computer, this thread may be used against you for damages.
You'd best inform all parents involved, and allow them to determine what is best for their youngsters.
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Those slides from 2024 NAM. You'll notice the projection for end of 2025 was 1,224,000, all programs.
Actual 2025 end was 907,950, so 25.8% below projected.
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3 minutes ago, yknot said:
Thank you for posting numbers. The nadir during Covid was at one point around 650,000, but that low included a lot of paused not lost memberships.
That was in Scouts only, not all programs. All programs 2020 was about 1 million.
https://nam.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2024/05/Change-the-Way-We-Work-Together.pdf
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Taking out the LFL numbers, we now have 748,061 members in all unit based programs.
Last time it was that low? 1933
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UPDATE:
01 March ended the grace period for those memberships which expired on 31 Dec. Those expired memberships have now dropped off the rolls.
Let's look at the updated numbers now...
As of 03 March, numbers pulled moments ago...
Same Month Last Year: 980,311 (Mar 2025) all programs...
Total Current Youth: 781,539 (Mar 2026) a 20.28% drop from last year.
Last Year End: 907,950 (This is the 31 Dec 2025 number in the system.) This changed by +1 from previous reports. (weird, huh?)
Dec 2024 End of Year number was: 986,520
These numbers include Learning for Life, 33,478 on the books now.
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51 minutes ago, ShootingSports said:
Question: Don't all three pictures show them not paying to go see the game? (stealing)
While everyone paid for their seats.
And they are watching people playing a competitive game where the best players have been selected based on their abilities. Everyone does not get to play, because everyone is not equal in that endeavor. How ironic...
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8 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
Or it could be that standards for advancement have been lowered? Once upon a time, the standard was "master the skills" and "the badge represents what a Scout CAN DO (sic) not what he has done." Those come from old handbooks and advancement guides. Now the standard is "A badge recognizes what a Scout has done toward
achieving the primary goal of personal growth. "Sadly I have been to a camp, where they gave away MBs. Best example were the Scouts given Canoeing MB, but could not paddle in a straight line on a troop trip to save their life. I had a Scout's family member tell me they bought the MBs by going to that camp. Or how about all the MBUs popping up where you sit in class and get a MB? Sadly my own kids, after they aged out, told me some of the stuff they didn't do for MBs they "earned" from MBUs.
And don't forget the online MBUs. What FL council awarded over 18000 MBs during COVID from online MBUs?
This.
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9 hours ago, ChrisFroemel said:
“Stand up for honor and decency and what you believe in, unless you are scared or it seems too hard”
Review the recent history of BSA, and you can make the same statement about their other major policy changes.
And all of these changes, I would argue, have not been about what is right. They have been about money.
This one is no different.
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4 hours ago, theschles said:
Our Scouts lose by not going through the requirements of the Citizenship in Society merit badge.
No, they do not. They "lose" out on a great opportunity because most leaders neither understand nor abide by the Scout Oath and Law. In a previous discussion here, a leader, who is supposed to have a lot of time dealing with Scouting, made some of the same errant statements you have made, and showed a deep unfamiliarity with the basic values and the texts we are supposed to be teaching Scouts from.
4 hours ago, theschles said:Let's go through a few of them (quoting from https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-society/ )
Let's not... the badge is gone. Please focus instead on the exact values, texts, and verbiage mentioned in the thread above, in the Scout Oath and Law, and their explanations in the Scout Handbook, to help the Scouts in your unit understand what they are pledging at each and every meeting (or should be). You have many many opportunities to do this through their rank advancements...
4 hours ago, theschles said:I'm not sure of anywhere else in the Scouting program makes Scouts think about these particular scenarios.
You comment indicates you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Scout Oath and Law, the rank requirements, and many other merit badges available which cover topics like these. (granted, many of those merit badges are not required for advancement)
As an adult leader, you have hundreds (almost?) of opportunities throughout a Scout's "career" to address these types of issues. Yet, you abdicate your responsibility to model and develop character and citizenship to a (now defunct) merit badge which many Scouts waited until they were far along in the program to earn???
A few references:
Rank requirements:
Requirements 1a & 1b: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Scout-Rank.pdf and specifically, requirement 6b. With links here: https://www.scouting.org/training/youth/scouts-bsa/ (required again at Star rank)
Requirements 7b & 9: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Tenderfoot-Rank.pdf
Requirements 8e, 9a, 9b, & 10: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Second-Class-v2.pdf
Requirements 9a, 9d, & 11: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/First-Class.pdf
Requirements 2 & 6b https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Star-Rank.pdf
Requirement 2: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Life-Rank.pdf
See page 21, Requirement 2: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/3321625-Scouts-BSA-Requirements.pdf (oddly enough, no direct link to Eagle requirements, but they are there in the Requirements Book)
Requirement 1: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Eagle-Palms.pdf
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Eagle required Merit Badges:
Family Life, 6b2: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/family-life/
Citizenship in the Community: 1, 3b, 5 & 8: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-the-community/
Citizenship in the Nation: 4b: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-the-nation/
Citizenship in the World: 1, 2, and some of 7: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-the-world/
Communication: 1b & c, & 5: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/communication/
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And sprinkled into some of these electives:
https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/disabilities-awareness/
https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/american-cultures/
https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/cybersecurity/
https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/crime-prevention/
And, using your logic, I will rephrase your statement:
4 hours ago, theschles said:This is why I feel Scouting America's executive leadership has sold out to the current Presidential leadership. By removing the Citizenship in Society merit badge -- and not transplanting these requirements into other merit badges, the Scouting America executive leadership has effectively stated that the requirements of the merit badge HAVE NO MERIT.
And that's just wrong.
"This is why I feel Scouting America's executive leadership has sold out to the current DEI Movement. By adding Citizenship in Society merit badge -- and not highlighting that these ideas are fundamental to the Scout Oath and Law, and deeply inherent in our program, the Scouting America leadership has effectively stated that our existing program and the requirements we have painstakingly developed HAVE NO MERIT.
And that's just wrong."
If BSA was serious about this, way back then, instead of trying to spring into the fray of virtue signaling, they would have made this a requirement for joining, or for earning Scout rank.
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2 hours ago, Navybone said:
I can read this two ways. The first is one where you are both condescending and dismissive. It is at best patronizing. It tries to shut down any conversation by dismissing my comments, implying I do not know what I am talking about and pretty much "shut up and color.
Yet you include:
""A Scout is courteous. A Scout is polite to people of all ages and positions. He understands that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along. Being courteous shows that you are aware of the feelings of others. ..."
"A Scout is kind. A Scout treats others as he wants to be treated. He knows there is strength in being gentle. He does not harm or kill any living thing without good reason. Kindness is a sign of true strength. To be kind, you must look beyond yourself, and try to understand the needs of others. Take time to listen to people and imagine being in their place. Extending kindness to those around you and having compassion for all people is a powerful agent of change to a more peaceful world."
Should I write a response in the same manner that you did. Should I imply that you know nothing about scouting and then sign of with a similar line - like "get on board or leave?"
You make a great case that Scouting America does not need a merit badge that discusses empathy, how to work with other, see things from their point of view, and how to understand what you see (or read) is not the whole story.
I wanted to agree with you, but then we both would have been wrong.
You stated "empathy is not part of the Scout Oath or Scout law. Putting ones self in the position of another to understand theater point of view is an example of a mature and well reasoned leader and individual. No where else is that in what is required in scouting. Nor is tolerance in the Scout Oath or Law. Tolerance for the fact not everyone see things the same way, based on their background, education, or opportunities. "
Your statement showed, at best, complete ignorance of what the Scout Oath and Law mean. Or, at worst, incompetence, stupidity or malice.... I chose to see your statements as a result of the former.
You can reply however you wish, Chief.
I attempted to make no case. I appealed to the source. The Scout Oath and Law, and their explanations in the Scout Handbook made their own case, which you should have known and been intimately familiar with before you said something like "...empathy is not part of the Scout Oath or Scout law." and the rest of your non sequiturs.
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4 hours ago, fred8033 said:
It's either poor accounting, poor legal judgement or outright misrepresentation.
Or all the above??
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1 hour ago, Navybone said:
We have to agree to disagree because I agree with little of your statement. But this part confuses me the most - empathy is not part of the Scout Oath or Scout law. Putting ones self in the position of another to understand theater point of view is an examlpe of a mature and well reasoned leader and individual. No where else is that in what is required in scouting. Nor is tolerance in the Scout Oath or Law. Tolerance for the fact not everyone see things the same way, based on their background, education, or opportunities.
Sorry, but the Pentagon has no business in what is required for Eagle scout. none.
Please read (for the first time, or re-read...) your Scout Handbook:
"A Scout is friendly. A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races, religions and nations, and he respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own."
"A Scout is courteous. A Scout is polite to people of all ages and positions. He understands that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along. Being courteous shows that you are aware of the feelings of others. ..."
"A Scout is kind. A Scout treats others as he wants to be treated. He knows there is strength in being gentle. He does not harm or kill any living thing without good reason. Kindness is a sign of true strength. To be kind, you must look beyond yourself, and try to understand the needs of others. Take time to listen to people and imagine being in their place. Extending kindness to those around you and having compassion for all people is a powerful agent of change to a more peaceful world."
"A Scout is brave. A Scout faces danger even if he is afraid. He does the right thing even when doing the wrong thing or doing nothing would be easier. Bravery doesn't have to mean saving someone's life at risk to your own. While that is definitely brave, you are also being brave when you speak up to stop someone from being bullied or when you do what is right in spite of what others say. You are brave when you speak the truth and when you admit a mistake and apologize for it. And you show true courage when you defend the rights of others."
"A Scout is clean. A Scout keeps his body and mind fit. He chooses friends who also live by high standards. He avoids profanity and pornography. He helps keep his home and community clean. A Scout knows there is no kindness or honor in tasteless behavior, such as using profanity or ethnic slurs, or in making fun of someone who has a disability. He keeps his character clean by carefully monitoring what he views on television and the Internet or reads in books and magazines."
" A Scout is reverent. A Scout is reverent towards God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others. Wonders all around us remind us of our faith in God, and we show our reverence by living our lives according to the ideals of our beliefs. You will encounter people expressing their reverence in many ways. It is your duty to respect and defend their rights to their religious beliefs even if they differ from your own."
Empathy is woven into each of these, as is tolerance.
You can only be confused if you are unfamiliar with these parts of the Scout Law and Scout Oath (where you promise you will obey the Scout Law) and their explanations. And discussing them and how you have lived them is a part of EVERY step of advancement along the trail to Eagle.
Get with the program, bro.
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2 minutes ago, skeptic said:
The scouts never had issue with them, only the parents.
Not true...
I had several Scouts who already had enough optional merit badges to satisfy their Eagle requirements, and then had this additional Eagle requirement imposed upon them.
They were not happy.
I have had zero complaints from any parents.
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43 minutes ago, Navybone said:
Because of the military support, I was able to be a cub scout when I loved in Portugal. It was the same for my son when we lived in Germany. I think that having a connection with the military is of great value for Scouting and for the military. My son is an Eagle Scout and has been selected for a 4-year NROTC Scholarship next year when he starts college. Although I left scouting as a Boy Scout because of the troop when I moved to Mississippi - the troop was less about camping and more about uniform inspections and being in Ranks. I was not looking for a military experience (although I retired form the Navy after 30 years in 2021).
So, I can understand why Scouting America made the decisions it did - Cit Society has been sacrificed for bigger, more important priorities to the program. But as the Cit Society MB counselor in my troop, I am concerned that there will be a cost. After two years teaching the Merit Badge, I learned from the scouts as we talk about the requirements. The scouts never had issue with them, only the parents. The scouts did not understand what the issue was - which really makes confident in the future generations.
I disagree the argument that there is no value since elements have always been there. Can we use the same argument to get rid of cooking since it is in every advancement requirement to First Class and in Camping MB? Same with First Aid? Since that argument does not work, what is the actual pushback on the Merit Badge?
I have no problem with having the Merit Badge. I did have a few issues when this all started:
1. It was a knee-jerk reaction to the George Floyd episode. Without having all the facts about what happened, BSA glommed onto the hysteria that developed in our country. And, in doing so, I think BSA diminished the standing of Scouting in the eyes of most.
2. The original leaked requirements were ideologically (and thus politically) charged agendas, and not appropriate for Scouting. These were, thankfully, revised to the current product.
3. They could have taken the revised requirements and sprinkled them into other existing merit badges or rank requirements. Or simply expounded upon current requirements in the program which, if emphasized, would address the issues at hand in a more fulsome manner. Were the real issues at hand getting watered down in other aspects of BSA's program? Yes. But, there was no need to create a new merit badge. And, in doing so, (creating a new badge), the real message BSA sent was that our program was not sufficient, and that it somehow had to change. Bad message, in my book.
4. They made it required to become an Eagle Scout. Again, the hidden message in doing this was that the Scout Oath and the Scout Law were not good enough.
I count it a great victory for common sense that this has been axed. As a counselor, I, too, guided many Scouts through this, and made it a worthwhile endeavor for them to focus on some issues that all societies face, and how we as Scouts and Americans can help to strive for a "more perfect Union."
I'm going to have a beer to celebrate.
P.S. I would support keeping it as an optional badge, with a name change...
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3 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:
I like the OA. I've got lots of good memories from my youth and the admonition has stuck with me as an adult. That said, I wouldn't be upset if it folded. Lax membership standards and concerns over Native American cosplay have left the OA in rough shape. One underrated benefit of ending the OA program would be a boost in Venturing participation. Right now, they function as parallel senior scout programs, but a strong chapter could easily function as a Crew and continue providing service to its district and local camps.
If the OA were to continue in present form, I'd consider eliminating elections in favor of a universal standard such as:
- 50 Nights of Camping
- 50 Hours of Community Service
- Star Rank
- Completion of Ordeal
Agree with that line of thinking... make it an honor to be earned & recognized for again, and make senior patrols of OA Scouts in units the centerpiece ... with emphasis on unit and community service.
There is too much emphasis on serving the Lodge, rather than serving your unit or the community. So much so, that the Lodge and the OA have become a self-licking ice cream cone (yes, I've used that phrase before...) That is, for most of the Lodges I have seen since the early 2000's, the Lodge exists to serve itself. This is one avenue where the OA has gone wrong... Hopefully, some of you out there have vastly different experiences.
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Another lawsuit and of course Media hype. Follow the rules people.
in Issues & Politics
Posted · Edited by InquisitiveScouter
Great question! Even with all the "threats" I've heard and hand-wringing I've seen, I have yet to confirm one case where BSA did not step up and cover the volunteers leaders in their settlements...
Anyone out there have an anecdote?