InquisitiveScouter

Those slides from 2024 NAM.  You'll notice the projection for end of 2025 was 1,224,000, all programs.

Actual 2025 end was 907,950, so 25.8% below projected.

3 minutes ago, yknot said:

Thank you for posting numbers. The nadir during Covid was at one point around 650,000, but that low included a lot of paused not lost memberships.  

That was in Scouts only, not all programs.  All programs 2020 was about 1 million.

https://nam.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2024/05/Change-the-Way-We-Work-Together.pdf

Taking out the LFL numbers, we now have 748,061 members in all unit based programs.

Last time it was that low?  1933

UPDATE:

01 March ended the grace period for those memberships which expired on 31 Dec.  Those expired memberships have now dropped off the rolls.

Let's look at the updated numbers now...

As of 03 March, numbers pulled moments ago...

Same Month Last Year: 980,311 (Mar 2025)  all programs...

Total Current Youth: 781,539 (Mar 2026) a 20.28% drop from last year.

Last Year End:  907,950 (This is the 31 Dec 2025 number in the system.)  This changed by +1  from previous reports. (weird, huh?)

Dec 2024 End of Year number was: 986,520

These numbers include Learning for Life,  33,478 on the books now.

51 minutes ago, ShootingSports said:

Question: Don't all three pictures show them not paying to go see the game? (stealing)

While everyone paid for their seats.

And they are watching people playing a competitive game where the best players have been selected based on their abilities.  Everyone does not get to play, because everyone is not equal in that endeavor.  How ironic...

8 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Or it could be that standards for advancement have been lowered? Once upon a time, the standard was "master the skills" and "the badge represents what a Scout CAN DO (sic) not what he has done."  Those come from old handbooks and advancement guides. Now the standard is "A badge recognizes what a Scout has done toward
achieving the primary goal of personal growth. "

Sadly I have been to a camp, where they gave away MBs. Best example were the Scouts given Canoeing MB, but could not paddle in a straight line on a troop  trip to save their life. I had a Scout's family member tell me they bought the MBs by going to that camp. Or how about  all the MBUs popping up where you sit in class and get a MB? Sadly my own kids, after they aged out, told me some of the stuff they didn't do for MBs they "earned" from MBUs.

And don't forget the online MBUs. What FL council awarded over 18000 MBs during COVID from online MBUs?

 

This.

9 hours ago, ChrisFroemel said:

 “Stand up for honor and decency and what you believe in, unless you are scared or it seems too hard”

Review the recent history of BSA, and you can make the same statement about their other major policy changes.

And all of these changes, I would argue, have not been about what is right.  They have been about money.

This one is no different.

4 hours ago, theschles said:

Our Scouts lose by not going through the requirements of the Citizenship in Society merit badge.

No, they do not.  They "lose" out on a great opportunity because most leaders neither understand nor abide by the Scout Oath and Law.  In a previous discussion here, a leader, who is supposed to have a lot of time dealing with Scouting, made some of the same errant statements you have made, and showed a deep unfamiliarity with the basic values and the texts we are supposed to be teaching Scouts from.

4 hours ago, theschles said:

Let's go through a few of them (quoting from https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-society/ )

Let's not... the badge is gone.  Please focus instead on the exact values, texts, and verbiage mentioned in the thread above, in the Scout Oath and Law, and their explanations in the Scout Handbook, to help the Scouts in your unit understand what they are pledging at each and every meeting (or should be).  You have many many opportunities to do this through their rank advancements...

4 hours ago, theschles said:

I'm not sure of anywhere else in the Scouting program makes Scouts think about these particular scenarios. 

You comment indicates you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Scout Oath and Law, the rank requirements, and many other merit badges available which cover topics like these.  (granted, many of those merit badges are not required for advancement)

As an adult leader, you have hundreds (almost?) of opportunities throughout a Scout's "career" to address these types of issues.  Yet, you abdicate your responsibility to model and develop character and citizenship to a (now defunct) merit badge which many Scouts waited until they were far along in the program to earn???

A few references:

Rank requirements:

Requirements 1a & 1b: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Scout-Rank.pdf  and specifically, requirement 6b.  With links here: https://www.scouting.org/training/youth/scouts-bsa/  (required again at Star rank)

Requirements 7b & 9:  https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Tenderfoot-Rank.pdf

Requirements 8e, 9a, 9b, & 10: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Second-Class-v2.pdf

Requirements 9a, 9d, & 11:  https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/First-Class.pdf

Requirements 2 & 6b  https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Star-Rank.pdf

Requirement 2: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Life-Rank.pdf

See page 21, Requirement 2: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/3321625-Scouts-BSA-Requirements.pdf  (oddly enough, no direct link to Eagle requirements, but they are there in the Requirements Book)

Requirement 1: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Eagle-Palms.pdf

----------------------------

Eagle required Merit Badges:

Family Life, 6b2: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/family-life/

Citizenship in the Community:  1, 3b, 5 & 8:  https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-the-community/

Citizenship in the Nation: 4b:  https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-the-nation/

Citizenship in the World: 1, 2, and some of 7: https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/citizenship-in-the-world/

Communication: 1b & c, & 5:  https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/communication/

-------------------------------------------------------------

And sprinkled into some of these electives:

https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/disabilities-awareness/

https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/american-cultures/

https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/cybersecurity/

https://www.scouting.org/merit-badges/crime-prevention/

And, using your logic, I will rephrase your statement:

4 hours ago, theschles said:

This is why I feel Scouting America's executive leadership has sold out to the current Presidential leadership.  By removing the Citizenship in Society merit badge -- and not transplanting these requirements into other merit badges, the Scouting America executive leadership has effectively stated that the requirements of the merit badge HAVE NO MERIT.

And that's just wrong.

"This is why I feel Scouting America's executive leadership has sold out to the current DEI Movement.  By adding Citizenship in Society merit badge -- and not highlighting that these ideas are fundamental to the Scout Oath and Law, and deeply inherent in our program, the Scouting America leadership has effectively stated that our existing program and the requirements we have painstakingly developed HAVE NO MERIT.

And that's just wrong."

If BSA was serious about this, way back then, instead of trying to spring into the fray of virtue signaling, they would have made this a requirement for joining, or for earning Scout rank.

2 hours ago, Navybone said:

I can read this two ways.  The first is one where you are both condescending and dismissive.  It is at best patronizing.  It tries to shut down any conversation by dismissing my comments, implying I do not know what I am talking about and pretty much "shut up and color.    

Yet you include:

""A Scout is courteous.  A Scout is polite to people of all ages and positions.  He understands that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.  Being courteous shows that you are aware of the feelings of others. ..." 

"A Scout is kind.  A Scout treats others as he wants to be treated.  He knows there is strength in being gentle.  He does not harm or kill any living thing without good reason.  Kindness is a sign of true strength.  To be kind, you must look beyond yourself, and try to understand the needs of others.  Take time to listen to people and imagine being in their place.  Extending kindness to those around you and having compassion for all people is a powerful agent of change to a more peaceful world."

Should I write a response in the same manner that you did.  Should I imply that you know nothing about scouting and then sign of with a similar line - like "get on board or leave?"  

You make a great case that Scouting America does not need a merit badge that discusses empathy, how to work with other, see things from their point of view, and how to understand what you see (or read) is not the whole story.  

I wanted to agree with you, but then we both would have been wrong.

You stated "empathy is not part of the Scout Oath or Scout law.  Putting ones self in the position of another to understand theater point of view is an example of a mature and well reasoned leader and individual.  No where else is that in what is required in scouting.   Nor is tolerance in the Scout Oath or Law.  Tolerance for the fact not everyone see things the same way, based on their background, education, or opportunities. "

Your statement showed, at best, complete ignorance of what the Scout Oath and Law mean.  Or, at worst, incompetence, stupidity or malice.... I chose to see your statements as a result of the former. 

You can reply however you wish, Chief.

I attempted to make no case.  I appealed to the source.  The Scout Oath and Law, and their explanations in the Scout Handbook made their own case, which you should have known and been intimately familiar with before you said something like "...empathy is not part of the Scout Oath or Scout law." and the rest of your non sequiturs.

4 hours ago, fred8033 said:

It's either poor accounting, poor legal judgement or outright misrepresentation.

Or all the above??

1 hour ago, Navybone said:

We have to agree to disagree because I agree with little of your statement.  But this part confuses me the most -  empathy is not part of the Scout Oath or Scout law.  Putting ones self in the position of another to understand theater point of view is an examlpe of a mature and well reasoned leader and individual.  No where else is that in what is required in scouting.   Nor is tolerance in the Scout Oath or Law.  Tolerance for the fact not everyone see things the same way, based on their background, education, or opportunities.  

Sorry, but the Pentagon has no business in what is required for Eagle scout.  none.  

Please read (for the first time, or re-read...) your Scout Handbook:

"A Scout is friendly.  A Scout is a friend to all.  He is a brother to other Scouts.  He offers his friendship to people of all races, religions and nations, and he respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own."

"A Scout is courteous.  A Scout is polite to people of all ages and positions.  He understands that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.  Being courteous shows that you are aware of the feelings of others. ..."

"A Scout is kind.  A Scout treats others as he wants to be treated.  He knows there is strength in being gentle.  He does not harm or kill any living thing without good reason.  Kindness is a sign of true strength.  To be kind, you must look beyond yourself, and try to understand the needs of others.  Take time to listen to people and imagine being in their place.  Extending kindness to those around you and having compassion for all people is a powerful agent of change to a more peaceful world."

"A Scout is brave.  A Scout faces danger even if he is afraid.  He does the right thing even when doing the wrong thing or doing nothing would be easier.  Bravery doesn't have to mean saving someone's life at risk to your own.  While that is definitely brave, you are also being brave when you speak up to stop someone from being bullied or when you do what is right in spite of what others say.  You are brave when you speak the truth and when you admit a mistake and apologize for it.  And you show true courage when you defend the rights of others."

"A Scout is clean.  A Scout keeps his body and mind fit.  He chooses friends who also live by high standards.  He avoids profanity and pornography.  He helps keep his home and community clean.  A Scout knows there is no kindness or honor in tasteless behavior, such as using profanity or ethnic slurs, or in making fun of someone who has a disability.  He keeps his character clean by carefully monitoring what he views on television and the Internet or reads in books and magazines."

" A Scout is reverent.  A Scout is reverent towards God.  He is faithful in his religious duties.  He respects the beliefs of others.  Wonders all around us remind us of our faith in God, and we show our reverence by living our lives according to the ideals of our beliefs.  You will encounter people expressing their reverence in many ways.  It is your duty to respect and defend their rights to their religious beliefs even if they differ from your own."

Empathy is woven into each of these, as is tolerance.

You can only be confused if you are unfamiliar with these parts of the Scout Law and Scout Oath (where you promise you will obey the Scout Law) and their explanations.  And discussing them and how you have lived them is a part of EVERY step of advancement along the trail to Eagle.

Get with the program, bro.

2 minutes ago, skeptic said:

The scouts never had issue with them, only the parents.

Not true... 

I had several Scouts who already had enough optional merit badges to satisfy their Eagle requirements, and then had this additional Eagle requirement imposed upon them.

They were not happy.

I have had zero complaints from any parents.

43 minutes ago, Navybone said:

Because of the military support, I was able to be a cub scout when I loved in Portugal.  It was the same for my son when we lived in Germany.  I think that having a connection with the military is of great value for Scouting and for the military.  My son is an Eagle Scout and has been selected for a 4-year NROTC Scholarship next year when he starts college.  Although I left scouting as a Boy Scout because of the troop when I moved to Mississippi - the troop was less about camping and more about uniform inspections and being in Ranks.  I was not looking for a military experience (although I retired form the Navy after 30 years in 2021).

So, I can understand why Scouting America made the decisions it did -  Cit Society has been sacrificed for bigger, more important priorities to the program.  But as the Cit Society MB counselor in my troop, I am concerned that there will be a cost.  After two years teaching the Merit Badge, I learned from the scouts as we talk about the requirements.  The scouts never had issue with them, only the parents.  The scouts did not understand what the issue was -  which really makes confident in the future generations.

I disagree the argument that there is no value since elements have always been there.  Can we use the same argument to get rid of cooking since it is in every advancement requirement to First Class and in Camping MB?  Same with First Aid?  Since that argument does not work, what is the actual pushback on the Merit Badge?  

I have no problem with having the Merit Badge.  I did have a few issues when this all started:

1.  It was a knee-jerk reaction to the George Floyd episode.  Without having all the facts about what happened, BSA glommed onto the hysteria that developed in our country.  And, in doing so, I think BSA diminished the standing of Scouting in the eyes of most. 

2.  The original leaked requirements were ideologically (and thus politically) charged  agendas, and not appropriate for Scouting.  These were, thankfully, revised to the current product.

3.  They could have taken the revised requirements and sprinkled them into other existing merit badges or rank requirements.  Or simply expounded upon current requirements in the program which, if emphasized, would address the issues at hand in a more fulsome manner.  Were the real issues at hand getting watered down in other aspects of BSA's program?  Yes.  But, there was no need to create a new merit badge.  And, in doing so, (creating a new badge), the real message BSA sent was that our program was not sufficient, and that it somehow had to change.  Bad message, in my book.

4.  They made it required to become an Eagle Scout.  Again, the hidden message in doing this was that the Scout Oath and the Scout Law were not good enough.

I count it a great victory for common sense that this has been axed.  As a counselor, I, too, guided many Scouts through this, and made it a worthwhile endeavor for them to focus on some issues that all societies face, and how we as Scouts and Americans can help to strive for a "more perfect Union."

I'm going to have a beer to celebrate.

P.S.  I would support keeping it as an optional badge, with a name change...

3 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I like the OA. I've got lots of good memories from my youth and the admonition has stuck with me as an adult. That said, I wouldn't be upset if it folded. Lax membership standards and concerns over Native American cosplay have left the OA in rough shape. One underrated benefit of ending the OA program would be a boost in Venturing participation. Right now, they function as parallel senior scout programs, but a strong chapter could easily function as a Crew and continue providing service to its district and local camps.

If the OA were to continue in present form, I'd consider eliminating elections in favor of a universal standard such as:

• 50 Nights of Camping
• 50 Hours of Community Service
• Star Rank
• Completion of Ordeal

Agree with that line of thinking...  make it an honor to be earned & recognized for again, and make senior patrols of OA Scouts in units the centerpiece ... with emphasis on unit and community service.

There is too much emphasis on serving the Lodge, rather than serving your unit or the community.  So much so, that the Lodge and the OA have become a self-licking ice cream cone (yes, I've used that phrase before...)  That is, for most of the Lodges I have seen since the early 2000's, the Lodge exists to serve itself.  This is one avenue where the OA has gone wrong...  Hopefully, some of you out there have vastly different experiences.

Difficult to find any new policy stuff regarding adult camping on any official websites.

Apparently, an email with this verbiage went out to Lodge leaders around mid-January:  (Underline emphasis added.)

------------------------

As a lodge leader, you play a vital role in creating exciting and welcoming experiences that keep Scouts engaged in the OA. This year, we're introducing significant updates to our induction weekend and membership requirements, changes designed to ensure that new Arrowmen feel deeply connected to their fellow Scouts and leave their induction energized to return to your next lodge event.

Induction Updates

The Order of the Arrow has created transformative experiences for over a century. We're evolving our induction to ensure today's Scouts continue forging real connections, discovering what Brotherhood, Cheerfulness, and Service mean in their lives, and beginning journeys they'll carry forward for years. To align with that vision, we've redesigned the induction experience to create a welcoming environment to emphasize the connections new members build during the induction weekend and leave energized to participate in your next lodge event. The best way to understand the changes to the induction is to experience it yourself at an induction event put on by your section or lodge.

What's Staying the Same?

Brotherhood, Cheerfulness, and Service still guide everything we do.

The induction weekend remains a serious, meaningful milestone in a Scout or Scouter's journey.

Service is still a core component of the induction weekend.

The Admonition, "To Love One Another," continues to anchor our purpose.

What's Changing?

We're strengthening how Scouts experience and understand the values the OA teaches.

New members engage in guided reflection and meaningful discussions.

Silence still has its place for reflection, but the weekend now prioritizes building the connections that make Scouts want to return.

Several experiences have been added to create a shared understanding of what our values truly mean in action.

The guide for each group, now called a Luminary, will take on an enhanced role in facilitating these transformative moments, helping new members discover their place in our brotherhood from the very beginning.

What’s Happening Next?

Watch the Campfire Chat: A recording of Sunday evening's Campfire Chat with our national leadership can be found on our YouTube channel.

The Induction Experience: Existing Arrowmen have the opportunity to build a shared understanding by going through the new induction before the lodge offers it to new members. Your section will play a key role in offering an event in your area to attend and experience the new induction themselves. Dates for these events are being finalized and will be shared in early February. We encourage all Arrowmen to experience the new induction as a participant.

Practice With Existing Members: Lodges will share the induction experience with existing members at least once before offering it to new members.

Support: You'll have resources at your disposal: on demand videos and guides to supplement the Induction Handbook. In addition to webinars and concierge-style support from trained induction staff to help you succeed. More information about this support will be shared in late March 2026. Keep an eye on the OA Website for more details.

We're counting on you to help bring this vision of the induction to life. Step one? Go experience it. We'll see you at your section or lodges induction experience.

Membership Requirements Updates

We are also updating our membership requirements to allow more opportunities for Scouts and Scouters to be elected into the Order of the Arrow and participate in our program.

We're expanding election opportunities beyond traditional units to include council-recognized Scouting America groups like staff for summer camp and NYLT, council high adventure contingents, and jamboree troops. Nearly a third of units don't hold elections, and every eligible Scout deserves a pathway to membership regardless of unit circumstances.

The camping requirement for adults has been removed. This change recognizes that many adults who would be valuable resources to the Order face professional or family responsibilities that make youth-oriented camping requirements challenging, and lodges need a broader pool of qualified adults to support youth leadership and meet safeguarding policies.

These changes ensure that today's Scouts, and the adults who support them, have additional pathways to OA membership.

We are working through how to best support lodges implementing the expansion of unit elections and will share more in the coming months.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone receive this?

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Instead of using an adult nomination form, they put the SM on the ballot with the youth, and had the Youth vote on him.

Madness

Some new norm, some freak anomaly...

1.  Still should be youth ( <21 y.o.) run election from Lodge... does not have to be your chapter.  In fact, if you had youth in your Troop who were OA members, and were trained in running elections, your Troop could do its own election.  Has to be "blessed" by your lodge...  Adults (>= 21)  should in no way be running the election.  This happened with our election last year, as no youth were available the night of our Troop election.  I thought we should reschedule, but SM and Lodge wanted it done... smh.

2.  Camping nights are still required.  Election team does not check this... this is done by SM, who must certify eligible from the unit.  Criteria here,  https://oa-scouting.org/about/membership  That said, I have seen unit leaders certify camping nights when they should not have....

3.  Not sure what you mean here, "The only adult, 21+,  was voted on and not nominated."  Adults are nominated by the Troop committee...  was this your process??

4.  Yes, everyone "eligible" can get elected now.  All you need is 50% of those present to vote for you.  Say your unit has 5 eligible and 20 Scouts present.  Each ballot can list five names.  If all five candidates receive a minimum of 10 votes, they are in.  smh

I take a slightly different tack that @skeptic, and this has been a heated topic in the past....  Here are my thoughts and beliefs, supported by mountains of literature on and from OA... many take a different thought-path, though...

A.  As @skeptic says,  "It pretty much lost any real credibility, in my view, when it stopped putting limits on how many could be elected in a unit..."  Agree.  OA is no longer really an "honor society" within Scouting, if everyone can get in.  That said, we did have a Scout who did not really do anything for the Troop and his fellow Scouts other than show up... his buddies did not select him for OA membership.  But that is the only one I have seen in the time since the election rules changed.

B.  Order of the Arrow recognition is unit-level.  There is no written guidance on what "approval of the Scoutmaster" means, other than the written requirements for membership linked above.  For any unit leader to inject their personal observations into it makes the process capricious and one showing favoritism. However, if a Scout, who is First Class or above, is not living up to the Scout Oath and Law, the the unit leader should tell the Scout specifically before the OA election, give corrective behavior and goals, and sign off a Scoutmaster Conference for the next rank.  (If Scout continues poor behavior, then should be brought up with Troop Committee and let the Scout know he will not be signed off on STAR (or LIFE) requirement #2 "...demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law." )  If the Scoutmaster deems a Scout is eligible, his name should be on the ballot, WHETHER THE SCOUT INTENDS TO COMPLETE THE ORDEAL OR NOT.   Simply being elected to the Order of the Arrow is the honor the unit gets to bestow upon their fellow Scouts.  It is not about future service to the Lodge... that is what the Brotherhood recognition is for...  "An Arrowman's first duty is to his unit."  https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/24-413.pdf    https://oa-scouting.org/article/thoughts-arrowmans-primary-duty

C.  When I talk with Scouts about potential OA membership, I tell them there is NO OBLIGATION to serve the Lodge after undertaking the Ordeal.  There is an obligation to continue serving the unit.  "...the ones who chose you need you."    There are TWO different "statuses"... one is membership in the Order of the Arrow (for which you wear your sash); the second is membership in the Lodge (for which you wear your flap.  Once you pass the Ordeal (without flinching  ) you are ALWAYS A MEMBER OF THE ORDER OF THE ARROW.  However, once you pass the Ordeal, you must pay your annual dues to be a member of the local lodge.

In the WImachtendienk,

Amangiechsin

Different experience here...

1.  The new registration regime actually caused more work to ensure that Scouts remained registered, and could, therefore, enjoy the benefits of "membership".  (I'll elaborate on that in a bit.)  Because the transaction now goes directly from family to BSA, the burden of action was shifted to the family.  Most families are not fully on top of all the minutiae they have to manage in their lives, and the required action of reading the emails from National (which probably went to spam) and figuring out what to do to register their Scout (admittedly a very low priority), especially around the holiday period, meant that about one third of our Scouts did not have a current paid registration going into recharter.

2.  Once the recharter process started, our Troop became "locked" somehow, and no adults or Scouts who delayed could register in the unit until the recharter was complete.  Those who attempted got some sort of "Unit Not Valid" message, and the system would not process their registration or payment.  Now you have doubled or tripled the amount of work a family / Troop has to do to get on top of this, as they have to monitor the recharter, then notify parents to try again, and then do the payment process again.

3.  Even though there is a "grace" period for individual registrations, until the unit recharter went through, adults in our unit/district/council could not manipulate calendars or input advancements (we'd get a message for a Scout that said they did not have a valid membership.)   After a huge outcry to District Commissioners/District Staffs/Registrar/Council Staff (folks at our January Roundtable were quite testy), the council office pulled folks from other duties to assist Registrar in tasks needed to complete the effort.  Still not done for all units due to adult application issues (for position changes to make sure a unit has the required leadership to recharter), but the majority in our District are now done.

Finally, consider the amount of money being wasted on this process... every family has to pay something like a 3% convenience fee to do this online with a credit card.

For those who went to the Scout office and paid in person, because this was an option presented to avoid the card fee, their registrations were held up until staff went through that paperwork in office.  (Of course, the checks were cashed right away, but renewals were delayed... optics on that not so good either.)

I'm with @Tron... these two actions should be de-coupled by some significant space in the calendar.  My take:  Units should be prompted to renew FIRST.  Once a unit renewal is complete for the next year, the demand signal for individuals to renew their memberships in that unit should go out...

There are a lot more moving parts to this, I'm sure...

47 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

WOW, who could have predicted rolling registration would be a "Charley Foxtrot?"  🤔

If they do, in fact, roll this back, I will be impressed that National will have taken prudent steps after recognizing this blunder.

Now let's see how long it takes to make the change.

Thanks

That was the substance of the SM's reply.

Sometimes I think we are just not getting through...

I am an ASM working with a Patrol of younger Scouts.

Last night, an older Scout interrupted this Patrol's Meeting to try to take a younger Scout out to work on his Life requirement #6, using EDGE to teach a skill.

The younger Scout is the planner for the Patrol's next camping trip, and he was working out plans with his Patrol mates.  

The younger Scout was obviously frustrated by this demand (from the look on his face) and turned to me for guidance.  I dismissed the older Scout and told him this was time for the Patrol Meeting, and that the younger Scout was to stay and finish his planning with his Patrol Mates.  

This morning, the parent of the older Scout sends a scathing missive to the Scoutmaster, outlining how his son has been trying to complete this requirement for months now, and is not getting any support from the Troop.  (This is factually incorrect, and the SM handled the email response to the parent perfectly.)

The parent made brief mention of the Patrol Meeting scenario last night, and made a comment in reference to it that makes me believe we are just not getting through...

"I understand the importance of patrol meetings, but don’t get why they would take precedence over completing rank requirements."  This, followed by threats to leave the Troop if the Troop does not immediately make and implement a plan to help their Scout finish the requirement.

Important to note also, this older Scout rarely comes to meetings, and has not been on a Troop outing since Oct 2024.  He did not make arrangements with anyone to try to work on the requirement during this meeting...

smh

https://youtu.be/V2f-MZ2HRHQ?si=ljwnDk_wERNKzhz4

2 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

Hello Fellow Scouters: Due mostly to my own lax planning, I'm pulling together plans for tomorrow's Bear den meeting. We'll be working on the "Roaring Laughter" elective adventure. Thankfully, it doesn't look like this one will require too much planning and it's a great activity for an indoor den meeting in the middle of winter.

Requirements are as follows:

1. Think about what makes you laugh. Discuss these with your den or family.
2. Practice reading tongue twisters.
3. Play charades with your den or family.
4. Have a "funniest joke contest" with your den or family.
5. Practice "run-ons" with your den or family.

Has anyone successfully covered this elective with their den?

Any tips for making this a memorable den meeting?

- BwC

Recommend you choose tongue twisters that do not twist into profanity

Example of a naughty: "I saw Susie sitting in a shoeshine shop"

Example of a nice: "Rubber baby buggy bumpers"

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Preview the jokes... make sure they are Scout appropriate.  I know some ditties on dirty underwear that I learned in Scouts as a kid  Not to be told in polite company...

1 hour ago, Armymutt said:

That's probably a less desirable outcome than having a mechanism whereby the Scouts can decide they want a new adult leader.  

There is a mechanism already in place...

1.  Scout tells parents they would like a new Scoutmaster, and articulates GOOD reasons for it.  Parents tell committee: committee evaluates and takes action, with advice and consent of COR.

2.  Scout tells Boards of Review they think they'd like a new Scoutmaster, and articulates GOOD reasons for it.  (BoR is made of Committee Members and parents.)  Committee evaluates and takes action, with advice and consent of COR.

Although I understand the sentiment, youth must not make the decision of who should be Scoutmaster.  (Inmates running the asylum and all  )  To implement this would mean an abdication of responsibility by COR and Troop Committee.

Unfortunately, reality is often that the Scoutmaster is simply the person with a pulse who said they'd do the job.

In 45+ years of Scouting, I've never seen a unit with a decent succession plan.  Still looking for that unicorn. (Yes, I have failed to get this accomplished in many a unit.  If I was allowed to be the benevolent dictator, things would have been different.)

2 hours ago, yknot said:

It's a great idea and good on you for trying but liability is the issue. They are in no authoritative position to confer any kind of credentialling and if an incident occurs it opens a can of worms that could only lead to enhanced liability. It's easier to just say park it and drive in. 

Your council is "supposed" to have an Enterprise Risk Management Committee that should review this...

Good Luck,

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-026.pdf

2 minutes ago, Tron said:

Yes, staff driving a units vehicle or towing a units trailer is not normal. I can't say if it is unique to Beaumont; however, I have been to many scout camps and never experienced or heard of this before. 

At the camp I grew up in (1980's, LOL!), our Camp Director got fed up with shenanigans, and went to a system where, when units arrived in the main parking lot, they loaded all their gear into a camp trailer, and Ranger or Asst Ranger drove it to their campsite, with staff members assisting on loading and unloading.

The issues then were too many cars in camp, drivers far exceeding safe speeds on camp roads with campers running everywhere, and people not getting their vehicles out expeditiously.  So, about my third year on staff, the Camp Director instituted that procedure, and it worked well for the next five years I was on that staff...