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InquisitiveScouter

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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter

  1. 2 minutes ago, yknot said:

    AK47 has become one of the preferred weapons of choice in mass shootings.  

    Only, it isn't.  Preferred firearm for mass shootings? Handguns

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GY7acnqEfiwJ:https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    And this wasn't a mass shooting...

    And most people probably wouldn't know what an AK47 looks like.  

    • Upvote 1
  2. Yes, the actual news report itself is fearmongering, or, at a minimum, sensationalizing.

    Take this one:

    https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/10/20/court-orders-police-turn-over-records-related-accidental-shooting-death-boy-scout/

    "Carvalho was accidentally shot and killed when another child picked up an AK-47 at the shooting range on the Boy Scouts campsite near Honokaa."

    Would the story be any different if it said "Carvalho was accidentally shot and killed when another child picked up an unsecured rifle at the shooting range on the Boy Scouts campsite near Honokaa."

    Here's another one:

    https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/10/18/criminal-investigation-into-deadly-shooting-big-island-boy-scouts-camp-hits-roadblock/

    "Carvalho was shot when another boy, who police said was unsupervised, picked up a loaded AK-47 semi automatic rifle at the range. When the boy set the gun back down, it went off and the bullet struck Carvalho in the head."

    Substantially different if it was reported this way??: "Carvalho was shot when another boy, who police said was unsupervised, picked up a loaded AK-47 semi automatic rifle at the range. When the boy set the gun back down, it went off and the bullet struck Carvalho in the head."

    That is what I mean by fearmongering (and now sensationalizing.)  Again, the type of firearm was irrelevant.

    The first article in the thread is a good piece of objective reporting:

    https://www.mauinews.com/news/local-news/2022/08/child-killed-in-shooting-accident-at-hawaii-boy-scout-camp/

  3. 17 minutes ago, yknot said:

    Most of the general public, even those neutral or casually supportive of youth shooting sports and probably a lot of scout parents, are unaware that an AK47 could be at a scout range. This particular tragedy is about adult negligence and the apparent failure of training programs but on the macro level it may lead people to wonder what an AK47 is doing anywhere near a scout. The public facing side of scout shooting sports has been gun safety, marksmanship, and hunting as a component of outdoor sportsmanship. An AK47 does not fit into that picture. 

    The type of firearm is irrelevant.  And the mention of it, I equate to fearmongering.  This death could have occurred with a .22 single shot rifle, or even a pellet gun (.177)

    Here is someone else's perspective I am evaluating, but do not currently agree with:

    https://www.kake.com/story/47530873/opinion-why-im-rethinking-boy-scouts-for-my-son

    • Upvote 1
  4. 37 minutes ago, BearsBeetsBSG said:

    Thanks, MattR. 
    That’s a great suggestion for the rest of the girls and getting things going for them.  

    I think my question in regard to the Scout is, does this qualify as leadership for rank if she’s in the position but performs no actual leadership? Is that something the Scoutmaster can bring up in Scoutmaster conference and deny her credit for that position toward her next rank until she actually shows some leadership? I ask because she’s Life and closing in on Eagle. Does she get a rubber stamp on the requirement because she held the position?  That doesn’t seem right to me. She’s 15, so no risk of aging out before she gets another opportunity to lead her troop. 
     

     

    If a Scout is not performing, you must set expectations and goals (good material for an SM Conference).  (RECOMMEND you document this.)  After this conference, if those expectations are not met, then you may remove from the position and not give credit back until the time of the SM Conference.  Time served up until the SM Conference for expectations counts and should (must?) be credited.

    From G2A:  https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

    4.2.3.4.3 Meeting Unit Expectations. If a unit has established expectations for positions of responsibility, and if, within reason (see the note under “Rank Requirements Overview,” 4.2.3.0), based on the Scout’s personal skill set, these expectations have been met, the Scout has fulfilled the requirement. When a Scout assumes a position, something related to the desired results must happen. It is a disservice to the Scout and to the unit to reward work that has not been done. Holding a position and doing nothing, producing no results, is unacceptable. Some degree of responsibility must be practiced, taken, or accepted.

    4.2.3.4.5 When Responsibilities Are Not Met. If a unit has clearly established expectations for position(s) held, then—within reason—a Scout must meet them through the prescribed time. If a Scout is not meeting expectations, then this must be communicated early. Unit leadership may work toward a constructive result by asking the Scout what he or she thinks should have been accomplished in that time. What is the Scout’s concept of the position? What does the Scout think the troop leaders—youth and adult— expect? What has been done well? What needs improvement? Often this questioning approach can lead a young person to the decision to measure up. The Scout will tell the leaders how much of the service time should be recorded and what can be done to better meet expectations. If it becomes clear that performance will not improve, then it is acceptable to remove the Scout from the position. It is the unit leader’s responsibility to address these situations promptly. Every effort should have been made while the Scout was in the position to ensure the Scout understood expectations and was regularly supported toward reasonably acceptable performance. It is unfair and inappropriate—after six months, for example—to surprise someone who thinks his or her performance has been fine with news that it is now considered unsatisfactory. In this case, the Scout must be given credit for the time.

    There is other guidance related to this in G2A...

    • Upvote 1
  5. 1. Yes.  Our current unit is at a level of "greatness."

    2.  Many things, but these stand out:

    A.  Dedicated adult leadership that understands and pursues the Patrol Method!  They seek to become skilled themselves, maintain those skills, and cultivate a mindset of continuous, thoughtful, directed improvement of adult support to the youth-led program.  There is no "resting on your laurels." 

    - Dedicated adult leadership that understands and pursues training and adherence to BSA policies and procedures! 

    B.  A commitment to have an outdoor camping experience monthly.  Even if you have only two Scouts who want to go.  And I mean camping, not staying in a cabin 😜

    C.  A vision (and perhaps a mission statement to support that.)  "Where there is no vision, the people perish."  And it is best if this vision comes from the SPL!!  Here is our current one:  "Troop XXXX is the best Scouting experience in our community!"  And the mission statement, developed by the PLC, to support: "Troop XXXX is Scouting at its best. We use the patrol method to develop youth and adult members with an in-depth knowledge of Scout skills. Our Scouts and Scouters are trained leaders who consistently strive to improve ourselves and make our Troop better while striking a balance between work and fun. " 

    D.  JTE is a good system of metrics.  We use it to help set goals for our annual program.  We have achieved Gold in the last six years.  This year, we have aimed to score Gold in every category.  I have never seen that accomplished, but we are on track to do it this year!  I know some don't like it, but it works for us.

    E.  A robust relationship with the Chartering Organization.  Our COR has two Scouts in the Troop, participates in many events, and is on the governing body of the church that sponsors us, so the relationship is very strong.

    F.  A varied program that recognizes "ages and stages" and provides multiple opportunities for older Scouts, to include one unit-run "high adventure" trip per year.

    G.  A good relationship with your Unit Commissioner!  Although we do not have a Unit Commissioner just now.  The UC can take an impartial look at your unit and recommend improvements.  

    H.  Use Order of the Arrow as part of the Troop program to recognize Scouts who exemplify the Scout Oath and Law.

    I.  Meetings that are planned (including a game!!!), and the plan followed, as conditions permit.  (This is one we struggle with, as youth do not want to spend the time planning.)

    J.  Growing the ability to remove reliance on district/council/national for support.  Our biggest areas of consumption from these are uniforms and insignia (national), literature (for program and training) (national), Summer Camp (council-level, but not our council; with national standards and accreditation) and registration/advancement tracking (council/national).  It is easy (for us) to live without the district.  I would submit that we have the technology to do away with the council.   Or, at least, the multitude of councils we have now.  The primary raison d'être for councils now is to run a Summer Camp (and to raise money to pay their own salaries.)  I would submit this could be done from a State/Regional/Service Territory type of system.   This topic is a whole other discussion, but I think the mindset  of becoming as autonomous as possible in our unit has made us more successful.

    There are more, but I'll stop at 10!!!

     

     

    • Thanks 2
  6. 14 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    In the state of Texas, trailers of this size and GVWR are not titled at all.  The registration is just changed from one owner to the next. I have it registered and current tags.  I am as legal as I can be in that regard.

    So, in the end, how did you show you were affiliated with the BSA?

  7. 8 minutes ago, qwazse said:

    Oh, for the love of all that is right and holy ...

    Let the kid take a break from troop life! I've seen so many "wrecked" teens who were in this for their dads or grandpas. Maybe you have an exit plan, but I've seen plenty of dads who don't, here are some steps:

    • Thank him for telling you this early rather than holding it in. Invite him to keep doing that going forward.
    • Make it clear that if he wants to limit his scouting activities, he can. If he wants to resign from the troop, this is the perfect time to do it before they recharter him for the coming year.
    • Tell him he needs to let his SM and PL that he will only be staying to the end of the year. (Obviously, you may want to give the SM the heads-up.)
    • Let him know that you want, just like the Good Book says, to bring him up in the way he should go -- not the way you needed to go when you were a kid. Being a part of his life is more important than any bling in the world.
    • Let him know that the Oath and Law and Outdoor code don't stop because he's off the charter. You expect him to be noble and grow up strong and good. The world's counting on it. (Well, at least one stranger on the internet is.)

    A year or two away from the troop, and maybe a few camping trips with his boring family, boredom with summer chores when everyone else is at camp, and he might reconsider. Until then, forget this "transitional bump" and (with all due respect to @InquisitiveScouter) troop life is not something worth negotiating a reward with your kid. There are far more serious things to trade for (academic excellence, craftsmanship, family financial health).

    A scout is trustworthy, take him at his word. If he changes his mind in a few months, take him at his word.

    Oh, and @FireStone, don't be afraid to keep on scouting if you have a fulfilling role in your troop/district, but remember that we're here for you even if you're off the roster for the sake of your son. :D

    Concur, to a point.

    Family situations are varied and complex.  For our family, in the situation we have been in over the past years transitioning from a life on the move in the military to trying to set down some roots, Scouting is/was a great activity for our kids.  And negotiating rewards has worked extremely well for us.

    He asked for advice and I gave him advice.  Just because it doesn't or may not have worked for you, don't poo-poo other people's input.

    And by the way, we used Scouting in concert with faith, academic excellence, craftsmanship, and family financial health.  Scouting reinforces all of those things, as you well know.

    • Upvote 4
  8. My first read is that your son is realizing he is growing up, and responsibility/accountability scare the heck out of him.  So he wants to avoid those situations, in the hopes that something else will be available where everything is done for him, like in Cub Scouts.  BTW... very impressive that this young man perceives the actual reasons he doesn't wish to continue, and is able to integrate his feelings and thoughts, then verbalize them.  IMO, most Scouts have difficulty with this.

    Incentivize the behavior you want.

    You want him to continue with Scouting.  Currently, he does not.   Find out what motivates him, and use that as a carrot.  For example, if he really likes skateboarding, make a deal with him that if he does Scouting through Christmas, you'll get him a new skateboard.  Yes, it is OK to negotiate rewards with your children!!  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experimenting-babies/201907/no-youre-not-bribing-your-kids

    Also, do not push advancement!!!  Push experiences!!! Let's go camping/hiking/bird watching/climbing/rafting/cycling.  The advancement will follow!!!

    If he has fun without the pressure of focusing on advancement, and then later realizes advancement is a by-product of outdoor experiences, he may come around.

     

    • Upvote 2
  9. 15 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    At least in Texas the insurance of the tow vehicle extends to the trailer in the event of an accident.  So, whoever is towing is on the hook.

    The adult that found and purchased the trailer has been with the boy troop for years, their Scouts have earned Eagle awhile ago.  It was bought and donated for the used of the girl troop.  

    I do have a bill of sale that was signed by both parties and appears to be about as official as you can get and it was provided to the tag office today when I registered it.  

    I have been down this road many times... (pun intended?)

    1.  Yes, the driver's insurance covers for accidents for towing.  However, the insurance company will only pay damages to the trailer to the titled owner!!  And they will want a copy of the title (especially if the trailer is a total loss, since they take possession in that case.)

    2.  From your posts, the old Troop (or their old COR) is still technically the owner.  You have a bill of sale, and that is awesome.  Scan it and keep a digital copy 😜  Continue pursuing the correct and current titling/registration/plates.  Please don't use it again until done.  A Scout is Obedient!  Set the example and obey the law.

    3.  This whole thing comes down to taxes.   In whose name were you trying to title/register the trailer?  Unless your Troop is separately incorporated as a 501 C(3), they should not be on the title or registration.  It should be your COR.  For you in the UMC world of CORs, this could be a sticky wicket.  In a nutshell, only a legal entity can own property.  That is, only a person or corporation...  If you were trying to register the title in the name of a corporation, then the state usually asks for a letter from that corporation designating the person appearing to act as an agent of that corporation for the purposes of the transaction.  If you are registering the trailer under a private name (which I recommend you not do), then you'll most likely pay taxes (taxes and fees for vehicle title transfers vary state to state.)  If you register it under the name of a 501 c (3) (at least in our state) then taxes will be waived.  Here in this state, you must have said letter of designation.  YMMV.  Happy to provide the text of a letter for a template, if you'd like.

    Postscript:  Our Troop uses three trailers.  One canoe trailer and two gear trailers.  All three are registered to our COR.  We pay upkeep and maintenance, but they belong to our COR.  That way, if the Troop should fold, the COR can keep the trailers for a future unit that may arise form the ashes.  COR holds the titles, and receives the registration renewal notices, which they forward to us to remit.  This tenet is always true:  the COR owns all vehicles/monies/gear, but signs an agreement with the council (the Annual Charter Agreement) that all this will be used for the purposes of Scouting.

    "Be a good steward of unit resources and adhere to BSA Fiscal Policies. ie. Unit Money Earning projects"

    https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_BSA_Units_20220404.pdf

    See Dissolution of Unit section

    • Upvote 1
  10. No one asserted that. Someone posted above that a CP threatened removal.  All it would take is talking with the CE and getting agreement.  In writing, neither have that power unilaterally.  In practice, I have only seen CE's take this action (of course, not knowing what discussions were had with CP).

    It stands to reason if a CP and CE are tight, then the CP could get someone tossed.

     

  11. 50 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

    I have been on different sides of this unnecessary divide at different times.  First a board-serving district chair and council president, and later a double unit leader (as well as other program and council leadership roles). 

    While serving in council roles I often heard others express a preference to avoid interacting with unit and program people if they had opinions and behaviors that were so absolute as to be obstructionist.  When such a person presented himself, 80% of the time the obstructing behavior concerned camp property or program closely-related to the camp.  The remainder of the behavior usually concerned raising or spending of council funds – even if the person was not a financial contributor.

    While executives I worked with and I never engaged in the tactics mentioned in this posting, I occasionally found it necessary to wall-off myself from a person making extreme demands or obsessing about matters that were disproportionate to existential tasks at hand.  Those who chose not to support council efforts and aggressively positioned themselves as disruptors usually assisted Scouting in other ways they personally controlled.  My approach was to appreciate the assistance provided but not allow that person to derail a productive agenda.  As a now-unit scouter, I appreciate the efforts of council and district people and make an essential FOS contribution.  They know I am a supporter, even if I express an occasional disagreement.

    Our culture is drifting away from the practice of reasonable compromise and toward all-or-nothing, take-no-prisoners, and vilify-the-opposition behavior.  I dearly hope that we diminish such behavior between program and council scouters as we emerge from bankruptcy. 

    Well said! Wholeheartedly agree!

    • Upvote 1
  12. 3 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

    Um.....no they can't............check the by-laws and operational procedures.  Anyway, do as you see fit.

     

    Agreed that the membership regulations put an onus on SE & Council Pres to work in concert when taking such action.  But the Scout Executive has wide latitude to remove district and council positions.  Removal from Scouting has it's own procedure.

    Page 12

    https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Rules_Regulations_Sept20.pdf

    "District and Council Scouters. District and council Scouters must be approved by the local council Scout executive. Council Scout executives may remove or refuse to renew the position registration of a district or council Scouter when the council president and council Scout executive agree that the Scouter’s service is no longer desired or required."

    So, you can see there really is no standard here.  You'd hope there be a conversation between SE and member before such action is taken.  A "common courtesy" as it were...  But no, not here.  Ask the wrong questions, or provide an opinion in a survey that is not in line with the Scout Executive's desires, and you are removed from all these.

    Our District and Council volunteer staffs and committees are mostly non-functional or non-existent.  And our district and council programs greatly suffer for it.

    As long as the money keeps rolling in, the SE will do as they please.  It is a private organization, after all...

    I have contacts in both levels who privately confirm the SE does this unilaterally, without a single discussion with our Council President.  Now hearsay isn't admissible  But, when more than five trustworthy individuals confirm this (including professionals), based on their lengthy history with the council, and without any official communications from the SE, you have to form a judgement as to what and how things happen.

     

  13. you won't be tried for Boy Scout Treason?

    Yes, you will... in absentia, with no formal charges, defense, or appeal.  You will be blacklisted and excluded from participation at district and council level.

    This has happened to me and others in this forum, for asking questions about decisions, governance, and finances.

    @Mrjeffis probably right about board members, but when word reaches the professional staff, you could (repeat, could) have backlash.  Just tread carefully.

  14. 18 hours ago, Spatulate said:

    I will ask the SM to prepare the plan in a readable format to have SPLs present at the next TC meeting.

    If you use Scoutbook, just put the plan on the calendar there.  No need to come up with another product.  At the meeting, you can project the calendar on a screen one month at a time, and everyone can follow it together.  Technology can really help with this.

    Or do it by Zoom and screen share. (or your favorite platform)

    We do a trip-by-trip approval.  When a trip is approved, we put "Committee approved" in the admin notes on Scoutbook.

    • Upvote 3
  15. As from posts above, the Committee looks at the plan first through the lens of "Can we rally the functions, logistics, and bodies we need to support our Scout's desires?" 

    An example might be that the Scouts want to do a Troop cycling/camping trip.  You expect 25 Scouts to attend.  How many adults will this take to provide transportation and supervision?  Two isn't gonna cut it. (Unless you've got a 20+ passenger bus that one leader drives, and the other leader pulls a large trailer that can carry 27 bicycles and Troop gear.  You get the idea.)  So, what's it gonna take, and can we provide it??

    This is why it is important for the SPL (with SM, or adult that facilitated planning, attending) to present this to the Committee...  if only for the Personal Growth/Adult Association/Leadership Development aspects of it.

    Once the plan is approved at the Committee level, it becomes the demand function for a Troop budget. (Does your Troop have one?  Budgeting is a Committee function, not a Scouts' function.)  What resources will it take to implement the plan, and how are we gonna get those resources (like thru dues and fundraisers)?

    Our Troop runs an SPL term of 6 months.  Each SPL has the task to do an Annual Plan during this tenure.  With this scheme, at a minimum the first six months of new SPL's tenure is already programmed, and they can look ahead for planning, instead of trying to come up with a camping trip for next month.  The next six months after that on the existing plan can be tweaked, if the PLC wants to make some changes.  They are not "married " to that part of the existing plan.  (e.g.,  Previous PLC said they wanna do skiing, but we have changed our mind and wanna do snowshoeing instead.)  Then, they get to dream up (create) the plan for another six months after that.  This kind of long range planning makes for a much more stable program for our Troop and families, and gives us time to make adjustments and do adequate budgeting. YMMV.

    The adult leadership needs to help set a "battle-rhythm" adequate for your Troop's needs.

    • Thanks 2
  16. 2 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

    I personally would not start at the District level as the volunteers at the District level have little connection with Council level matters as part of their official duties as District officers.  The DE might be able to obtain a copy for you, but most DE's I've dealt with are not interested in any task that puts them on the radar of senior professionals that might reflect poorly on their jobs. And, such a request puts junior staff in a difficult position.

    The advice was more to obtain a warning for the OP'er if they don't have a good sense of the culture in their council before starting to ask these questions.  Hopefully, your District guys (talk to volunteers first) have been around a while, and can give you a good sense of how the council operates and treats them.  Their input and experiences will be a good indicator... concur that they won't necessarily be close to council ops, but the Chair or Commissioner may wear other hats in the council that do give them better insight.

  17. 1 hour ago, Christi13 said:

    Again the questions were:

    Who is allowed to attend the Executive Board meetings for a council?

    Can I as an Assistant Scoutmaster, OA Chapter Advisor,  District Committee member, and Unit Commissioner sit in and listen to an Executive Board meeting? Yes or No? 

     Would I be able to look at past meeting minutes? Yes or N 

     Would I be able to request looking at those minutes? Yes or No? 

    Is the Scouting program to be transparent in their work? Yes or No? 

    Is the Council expected to be transparent in their work? Yes or No? 

    Thanks 

    1.  Who is allowed?  It depends on what's on the agenda.  Some meetings are open (you may attend), some meeting are closed (you may not.)  It varies by council as to whom will decide which it is.  If all of yours are closed, it's a shame.  These meetings should be on your council calendar.  Call your District Key 3 and ask if you may attend.  (Yes, start at a low level to gauge what the reception to your questions will be, and the volunteers may have some knowledge about your specific council.)  Be prepare to answer the question "Why do you want to attend?"

    2.  Can I as ASM, OA,...? See above.

    3.  Past meeting minutes?  Varies by council.  And, if the meeting was closed, No.  Google is your friend... here are some examples

    https://www.mississippivalleybsa.org/about-us/our-executive-board/

    https://scoutingevent.com/Download/50968661/OR/Minutes__Council_Executive_Board_September_2020.pdf

    4.  Can you request the minutes?  Sure, but the answer may be No.  Start with your District Key 3. (I recommend your District Commissioner, then District Chair, then DE.  They will help you "take the temperature" of the council and see if your inquiries will be welcomed or viewed with disdain.  Start treading carefully...

    5.  Program Transparency?  Supposed to be, yes.  But there are times and instances where issues must be discussed behind closed doors to preserve anonymity of youth, privacy, etc.

    6.  Council Transparency?  Same as above.

    You may find some of this helpful:

    https://www.scouting.org/council-support/cebo/

    The "View" video links are inop, but you can download and view on your computer.  Expect vanilla and pie in the sky.  There is a difference between the ideal and reality 😜

     

  18. 6 hours ago, Jmatt0613 said:

    Hello everyone! I have come up with an update but it's not that good. Unfortunately, I have decided to leave my current troop after some issues arose. This is a drama that has been brewing in the background since our summer camp.

    I had a meeting with the new scoutmaster (NSM), Chartered organization rep (COR), and old scoutmaster(OSM) which was an intervention under the guise of a leadership meeting. (NOTE before this COR had not been present at troop functions for almost 1 year and OSM had only reappeared back in march) They essentially summed up the meeting into 3 things 1. I need to back away from the troop for some time to focus on myself and my future (they also agree to help and check in on me), 2. That I was not to attend ANY troop or committee meetings or ANY 2 deep leadership with the scouts until COR said it was ok too, and 3. They claim that it is to make sure my relationship with the scouts wouldn't be taken as me being a predator. I understood this and agreed with 1 and 3 but 2 is where I had a major problem because I had already agreed to help and be available to the new leadership and parents that came in.

    I stayed away as much as I could unless the scouts asked for help (I always take 2 deep leadership seriously because one mistake could ruin my life) the meetings that I did go to COR and OSM were not there but NSM was but he never tried to talk to me about 2 and was actually grateful when I actually showed up. Then our September committee meeting happens where all three are there. (I received an email from the  Committee chair informing us that there would be a committee meeting and that anyone can attend) Nothing was said to me before or during the meeting but COR wanted to talk with me afterward. He reiterated 1,2, and 3 to me again and told me that he would call me to help me with something before the next week. Since I had not been asked to help with any meetings during September I decided to not attend meetings and not interact with any scouts. COR never called or even texted about helping me and then proceeded to take a vacation the last week of September and the first week of October. COR was set to return the day before the October Committee meeting it was intentionally scheduled that way.  

    Two days before our October Committee meeting the Committee chair sent out an email reminding everyone of the meeting and was still an open invitation. As this thread showed I planned on attending to propose the Code of Conduct. I arrived a bit early way before any scouts or other adults showed up and just waited. When the SPL arrived I asked him about returning something that I had loaned him because I planned on almost quitting the troop and fully embracing ! 2, and 3 to the best of my ability. While doing this other scouts arrived and I got swarmed until the normal meeting opening which I stayed to watch with NSM. I was going to wait until the NSM was finished and walk with him to the committee meeting. Before that happened COR walked over and asked to talk with me so I followed him. Upon the talk beginning, he asked why I was there and that I  knew about 1, 2, and 3 to which I calmly explained that I was there for the committee meeting and what I had previously mentioned. He asked if I knew why he had told me to stay away and I just told him what 3 is. he agreed and asked if my mother knew about 1,2, and 3 and the real reason, to which I responded yes and said I was only there for the committee meeting. He then followed up with that if I attend another meeting of any kind he would have me removed in handcuffs. I simply asked why as I knew I had not broken any laws to which he responded "for what you did to those kids online I should have had you removed from the program a long time ago," (This is the exact quote and he didn't explain it at all. The reason is that I know is because immediately after I texted my mother a summary that included that line in full.) Cor then said I could stay for the committee meeting as I didn't have a ride there but then reiterated that if I come back again I will leave in handcuffs. During the entire committee meeting, I stayed silent, and as soon as it was over I went outside and ordered an Uber. As soon as I was home I emailed the NSM and committee chair that I am leaving the troop because I have become unwelcome by Cor and that if I attend another troop event I will be removed in handcuffs. I wished them the best of luck for the future and that I might not return again. 

    My scouting journey has come to an end against my will and I'm quite sad about it ending this way with people I considered family. This is not the ending I thought of or hoped for at all but if I stay any longer I am risking my future for nothing. I hope those who have read this have a wonderful time with however long you have left in this amazing program. I might end up updating this if any major events happen in the future.

    OK, there is a lot to unpack there... and some new info which is disturbing.

    I'm not gonna delve any deeper from a thousand miles away.  But I will offer the following:

    1.  You are young.  Unfortunately, with a group of other adults (parents), your views are not going to carry much weight.  They are asking themselves : "What is this college kid doing here?  He should be off with his friends doing college-kid stuff."  So, you are probably viewed with some suspicion for hanging around instead of "letting go."  That's probably the origin of #1 and #3 above, but just a guess...  It's a way for them to have you not be there.

    2. From your posts, I take it you are under 21.  BSA rules say "Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings."  So, from your posts above, "...I arrived a bit early way before any scouts or other adults showed up and just waited. When the SPL arrived I asked him about returning something that I had loaned him..." They probably took this as a violation (from #2 in your post). 

    3.  Someone in charge now does not want you there.  So, go, before things get worse.  Best thing for you and the Troop, ultimately.  There are a million other things to do in Scouting.  Find some.  Does your college have an Alpha Phi Omega chapter?  (No, start one.) How about a local NESA Chapter.  How about OA? etc, etc etc.

    4.  You were diving into a Code of Conduct for the Troop.  While the Scout Oath and Law applies to all, YOU actually have one to follow:  The Scouters Code of Conduct.

    https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/bsa-scouter-code-of-conduct/

    Make sure you follow it, always, in your other Scouting adventures.

    Happy Trails!

    • Upvote 1
  19. 7 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

    While important, maintenance can deferred. Paying the power bill cannot, insurance bill, payroll cannot. 

    Not indefinitely.  We have buildings that should be condemned (black mold, roof leaks, rotting structural members, etc.) because of deferred maintenance.

    I have repeatedly asked since I moved here to see our council's plans for camp... non-existent.  Our new Ranger, whom I know well, is scheduled for NCS soon, has asked for same to review and take with him to Camp School... crickets...

    Not going to give money to pay for further mismanagement.

    • Thanks 1
  20. 22 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

    Ever been something like a district finance chair, popcorn sales chair for a district, district solicitor for FOS or someone who spent significant time finding the least expensive insurance for your council’s service center?

    Lord, no!  Nor would I.  And why would I?  I wholeheartedly believe we need to gut the bloated structure we have, consolidate councils, reduce unnecessary/unproductive labor overhead.

    Too many feeding at the trough as it is, with no value added to program, unit service, camp improvement, training, etc., etc., etc.

    After all these years, I'm not gonna throw good money after bad!  A Scout is Thrifty!

    • Like 1
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