InquisitiveScouter

4 hours ago, yknot said:

no single unit or supporting organization would be able to afford it.

Do we know this?  I haven't gotten a quote yet, but I intend to...

17 hours ago, ALongWalk said:

I am at the point of thinking there is no way National survives now. Sure hope that LC’s are discussing some sort of confederations that will allow Scouting to continue. 

We all need to begin thinking about this "What if?"

If you desire to continue supporting Scouting, what will you do if BSA goes Chapter 7?

(Let's make this a new thread, please?)

Get yourself a Scout Handbook, and MASTER the skills there.  This will pay dividends with your Cub Scouts now, and later when/if you transition into the Scouts program.

On 8/30/2022 at 10:35 PM, curious_scouter said:

Next month PLC wanted a canoe trip, that'll be $30-$50 per Scout due to canoe rentals mainly.

Find another Troop that has canoes and ask to borrow (or rent) at lower cost.

We have a local Troop that, in it's heyday had 100+ Scouts.  Once upon that time, they bought 22 canoes and two canoe trailers.  Nowadays, they are around 20 Scouts.  I asked to use a rack of canoes in exchange for refurbing the canoe trailer.  (repacked bearings, bought them a spare tire, fixed trailer wiring, pressure washed the gunk off the trailer, replaced old bungees (a hazard) with painter ropes (which are taken off the rack as tiedowns and used as bow & stern painters on the trip; Scouts learn and use two half hitches, trucker's hitch, and bowline, a lot!))  For about three hours of work for two people (me and one other adult who likes to be a grease monkey with me), and about $10 a head in materials, we now have a perpetual invitation to use their boats.

Another idea that our Scouts like: find your local historic hikes, and earn the patch or medal.

https://tap.scouting.org/bsa-historic-trails-index/

And a cycling trip is always a hit.  Find your local trails, and make an adventure of any size!

https://www.traillink.com/

56 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I also don't really know how to answer a parent when they ask what does the $75 cover?

It goes to cover page 19 & 20 😜

https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/221576300_201912_990_2021030217778557.pdf

PTC plans to appeal to the State Supreme Court.

Grrrrrr

11 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

into enforcement

Into effect, maybe, but not enforcement 😜

3 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I am a fan of standards but I dropped out of NCAP Assessment Team participation as every camp we assessed, passed.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  smh

As an MBC, I have a copy of the book (I learn a good deal from them), and loan it to the Scout if they wish to use it.

Never put your name on a survey with BSA.  They are not anonymous, and all responses will be given to your SE and up.  Nothing good can come of it unless you wear several pairs of rose colored glasses and offer lots of money.

9 hours ago, qwazse said:

My apologies if I didn’t mention Camp Potomac, although it would have added miles, and I’m not sure if there is a safe enough back-country route to it.

On the other hand, IQ did not PM me to arrange delivery of some outstanding espresso.

Oh, and was that supposed to be me delivering outstanding espresso to you, or vice versa?? 🤪

Thanks, we looked at it, but it was not feasible for us.  That was our longest day - 63 miles.  The youth planner and trekkers decided on the Y. 

Next time, perhaps.

Have them go to this website and enter their ZIP code (postcode).

This site will show them all the Cub Packs within their local area, and give contact info (hope it is up to date 😜 )

https://beascout.scouting.org/

There is a map view on the search, and they can see exactly where the Packs are located in relation to their home.

Good luck!

4 hours ago, RainShine said:

An unfortunate update on my post: its a few years later and that patrol of young Scouts are older now. I hate to say it, but they don't remember the patrol cooking favorably and don't want to go back that camp. As an adult, I thought it was great and I observed the guys made a lot of progress and it was good for them in every way. But in our troop, the Scouts decide which summer camp to visit and they have firmly crossed that one off the list. <heavy sigh> This year's summer camp dining hall food was uneven, at best, but they don't want to cook at summer camp.

Was that an established BSA Council-run camp?  Did the Scouts pick the menus and buy the food?

We did our own summer camp in 2020, with the primary focus on Cooking MB for all Scouts who needed it.  Each Scout within a patrol who worked on Cooking Merit Badge came up with menus (counselor-approved), made their own shopping lists, and did their own shopping (we took field trips from camp).  Yes, it was a logistical challenge, but they owned it.  For the last few meals of camp, there were not enough meals to cover the requirements for Cooking MB, so younger Scouts worked on their TF, 2C, and 1C requirements.

They learned a tremendous amount. I definitely noticed an increase in cooking skills, teamwork, and speed on subsequent weekend camping trips.

Our Scouts remember this as one of their best camps.

We just finished a week-long cycling trek on the Great Allegheny Passage...Pittsburgh, PA to Cumberland, MD.  Started from Camp Guyasuta ( @qwazse stomping ground).  Eleven Scouts (14 and up) and four adults,    Including fuel and tolls, and some donated MREs for two of our meals, and we hit $152 per person (Scouts spent a bit more for their lunch on the drive out, and ice cream stops along the trail!!!) Free camping in a few places along the trail.  Camping also at Ohiopyle State Park, Corps of Engineers campground in Confluence, PA,  and the YMCA in Cumberland, MD, at the end. (although I'd recommend finding an alternative to that one.)  We logged 168 miles total,  used a SAG Wagon. Great trip, and, with two local shakedown rides to prep, all riding requirements for Cycling MB complete.  50-miler award and NPS Resource Stewardship Scout Ranger opportunities also. Seven days (including travel days on front and back) total, six nights camping, five days cycling.

Doing your own adventures is far more Thrifty!

2 hours ago, EEEagle74 said:

I've been lurking for a number of months on Scouter.com.  I finally took the plunge and registered.

Understaffed LCs can't support the administrative requirements associated with an LC-sponsored unit.  This makes the UMC Affiliation Agreement a non-starter.  Furthermore, an understaffed LC can't help a unit find a new Chartering Organization should the unit elect to retain its UMC meeting/storage space via the Facilities Use Agreement.  Prospecting and signing up a new CO will likely require some significant District Exec support, especially now that more national organizations (Elks, VFW, Kiwanis, etc.) are discovering what the traditional Charter Agreement requires of responsible COs.  

The LC for the units our church charters (101 years for the Troop) has no DEs, one back office employee, and an acting Scout Exec (for the last 15 months) who has a day job in Texas as the Western Area Exec.  If our church doesn't act as CO, these three active units will likely disband.  Given the bankruptcy-driven turmoil affecting Scouting, I suspect that many units face the same choice between two unworkable agreement formats.  What's sad is that our church understands and takes the CO responsibilities seriously.  Many of the Troop's adult leaders have been church members, some of the youth attend our church, and the COR has been an active Scouter and former LC employee.  

The fact that BSA and the UMC Ad Hoc Committee on Scouting "continue to talk" indicates that our units/LC aren't the only ones facing these unworkable choices.

Welcome, lurker!!

I've had enough of these conversations with adults who are not adhering to uniform standards, that I really do not go after youth much anymore.

The conversation kind of goes like this...

http://www.scoutsforequality.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/isa_composite_320.jpg

"Oh, that's a different patch.  What does that mean?"

"It's my knot showing support for LGBTQIA+."

"Is that an official BSA knot?"

"No, I just like to wear it."

"Did you know that was against BSA's uniform policy?"

"Yeah, I just like to wear it."

"So, what does it mean to you that "A Scout is Obedient"?

Usually the conversation ends there.  People know they are wrong, but their sense of personal expression carries more authority than their sense of integrity in adhering to established standards.

You cannot convince people with anything other than setting the correct example, and pointing out the error.

If adults will not adhere to standards, we have no ground to stand on to require youth to do so.

32 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

So what happens if someone shows up at a BOR wearing swim trunks, flowers shirt, and flip Flops?  Do we have the BOR; try to figure out the reason for this attire; send them home to change; or cancel the BOR.  Perhaps we try to find out why;  well, they are on the way to the beach and just stopped off to have their BOR.  We can justify or legitimize anything.  Most people shy away from unpleasantness and take the path of least resistance.   If we just say it's OK and overlook things I won't make waves.  If a standard is established then meet the standard.   If the standard is ignored then don't set the standard.   

If you know the Scout owns a uniform, then you can hold the Scout to the standard.  The key here is, do not let owning a uniform be a barrier to participation.  But, if they have one, you can expect the Scout to wear it.  Also, establish that expectation up front in your Troop SOP's (or whatever you have.)   If you have established that expectation (I recommend in writing) and the Scout shows up dressed otherwise, then ask them why.   Then (as long as the Scout is "clean and neat in appearance and dressed appropriately) (how's that for a subjective assessment??) the BOR can make a judgment "according to the Scout's means"  This standard must apply to all within the Troop.

A BOR CAN reject a Scout due to uniforming "...as long as they are dressed to the above description."  Swim trunks and flip flops would be out.

G2A:

8.0.0.4 Wearing the Uniform—or Neat in Appearance It is preferred a Scout be in full field uniform for any board of review. As much of the uniform as the Scout owns should be worn, and it should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly. It may be the uniform as typically worn by the Scout’s troop, crew, or ship. If wearing all or part of the uniform is impractical for whatever reason, the candidate should be clean and neat in appearance and dressed appropriately, according to the Scout’s means, for the milestone marked by the occasion. Regardless of unit, district, or council expectations or rules, boards of review shall not reject candidates solely for reasons related to uniforming or attire, as long as they are dressed to the above description. Candidates shall not be required to purchase uniforming or clothing to participate in a board of review

@Mrjeff, I share your confusion over uniforms.

When a standard is not held, it is no longer a standard.

When those who are supposed to be in "authority" do not adhere to a published standard, then followers can disregard all published standards.

It's the broken window theory. 

You can see this attitude prevalent everywhere.

Cultivate your own garden, and those who seek your virtue of excellence will follow.  Leave the rest to their own...

7 minutes ago, yknot said:

safety instead of one of million patches when we are the only youth organization that actually does stuff with kids in the dark.  

Because it isn't a revenue generator like patches are 😜

Mummer's parade?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DmG5TudEg8BU&ved=2ahUKEwjsjPrYhrP5AhXOFlkFHSZnDPcQxa8BegQIDBAF&usg=AOvVaw12nd9NsHLSzD-ae_E5r_3b

Marianas parade???

6 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Had several meetings this week about what is going on in Scouting. . Apparently I am spreading rumors since I keep up with the bankruptcy , state what is being told in court (via this site and others), and ask questions that the PTB either do not want to answer, or do not know the answer because they are not informed.

I asked about council mergers since BSA plans to downsize the number. Answer is council mergers wont be happening if goals are met. I asked about why we are investing in a camp, when the merger possibility exists and the camp will get sold. Told again no mergers are going to happen if goals are met. Asked about when the changes to YPT will occur, and was told  I am spreading rumors.

Sad thing is I find out more here and on other sites, than I do from my council.

You're just a troublemaker 😜

18 hours ago, Scoutcrafter said:

Den leader for 5 years, now ASM. 2 kids in scouts, one still in cubs, the other crossed to Scouts BSA last March. I'm pretty passionate about BSA scouting.

I was somewhat active on the official BSA forums before they were deleted. Reddit is a mess. So I'm looking for a new home to debate discuss today's hot topics. Hopefully I'm in the right place. Nice to meet you.

Welcome!  You are in the right place!!