yknot

I, for one, have been specifically talking about Mic O Say in all my comments. You brought up OA and claimed MOS has nothing to do with BSA despite evidence easily obtained and provided for you at least a couple times on Google. BSA doesn't have to do anything to address it other than to enforce its own rules. Honestly, OA ought to be concerned about Mic O Say because from the perception of the general public, OA will be lumped in with Mic O Say when it all eventually blows up. The public won't see any of those fuzzy lines of distinction drawn by scouters. It's the situationally inapp

Appropriate attire is required for all activities under BSA Youth Protection and Adult Leadership rules. Start there. The recent inclusion of girls in the program, as an earlier poster noted, is a logical time for BSA to enforce its own rules.

Thank you for posting that. The Reddit poster's views are current from this summer, as are other posts with current Summer 2021 photos on Reddit. It seems almost impossible that anyone involved beyond a passing level with National or OA has never heard of this Council and its activities or would be able to dismiss them. It's debatable how "adjacent" the Council, camps, and society may be given that it is all clearly operating with BSA approval. It is using branded logos, materials, and webistes and intertwining program and fundraising aspects and leadership. I hope some of these re

That's an outdated recommendations from 2001 that has had numerous updates, including a 2020 recall. Wouldn't it be better to teach scouts to be aware of what the Consumer Safety Productions Commission is? They cover safety aspects of many things in a scout's life, from products in the home, like blinds, to vehicles to camping gear. Why ignore them? You woudn't if it was climbing rope or carbiners or propane tanks that have been recalled.

It is clearly associated with BSA. I'm not sure why you are not seeing the connection: https://www.hoac-bsa.org/mic-o-say Pick through here. You'll find a lot. https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/research-compiled-in-the-boy-scout-series-in-indian-country-today However, if you think shirtless youth wearing loincloths, even over shorts, in the company of adult men in camp ceremonies in the woods for no reason is not inappropriate from a youth protection standpoint, then that's the explanation for why this kind of thing persists. That's good news.

Search on Google and/or Facebook for Mic O Say or Scouts Native American appropriation and you'll find plenty of photos that show youth barechested in loincloths and they are current. I don't know how it persists in the present environment but it is hard to argue that BSA is the leader in youth protection with photos like those extant.

I'm not talking about swimwear, I am talking about camp ceremonies, and I am talking present day. As far as swimwear, there are a lot of scouts who are competitive swimmers and they are used to wearing performance suits. I don't see much difference between genders in that regard whether you are talking square inches of coverage or form fit. In and around the water, swim wear is appropriate.

Alright. Let me put it another way. Corded blinds are no longer being sold because they are a safety hazard. They do not meet industry standards. Where I am, if you are selling a house, you either have to remove or replace corded blinds or you have to disclose them because they are a liability risk. If you repair a corded blind in someone's house rather than replacing it with cordless, and some child accidentally strangles in the cord in the future, you have some potential liabilty. It is simply not worth teaching that skill or involving scouts in that kind of repair. And corded blinds are jus

There are many cases and claims however that do involve intentional cover up, especially if you look beyond just what has turned up on this Forum. It ultimately may not serve the best interests of BSA and children for the bankruptcy to have been filed, because if these egregious cases were told publicly in court it might jolt more people out of denial or deflection. BSA is still in effect covering up youth protection violations today. How otherwise do you explain, for example, the continued existence of units that parade youth wearing loincloths? BSA is aware but ignores it, presumably for con

I understand it's a volunteer problem, but if BSA knows it lacks the volunteers to do the job properly, should it be continuing to offer programming? The US Trustee recently asked BSA why they were pursuing Chapter 11 instead of Chapter 7 if they didn't have enough money to meet the requirements of the law. Youth Protection is the same situation. If you know you can't do the job properly, then maybe you should desist. It puts the importance of maintaining the program ahead of the safety of kids.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, what you appear to be saying is that because everyone else was doing it, getting away with it, and didn't know how to handle it, BSA should not be in this situation. Your feeling seems to be that BSA is somehow being unfairly singled out for accountability. If BSA is not held accountable, though, then how would we as a society ever begin to address child abuse? How would we make that "accountability" more fair? I'm assuming you mean some kind of higher power, like government, should realize that this is an endemic problem wherever youth are involved and ... do

That's from 2012. The standards were updated in 2018: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/historic-safety-standard-to-eliminate-majority-of-corded-window-coverings-from-us-market-takes-effect-300765221.html

This will vary by state, district, and school but today many classrooms have two adults by default because so many kids require instructional aides especially K-8.

I don't follow your logic. Why is delusion an excuse for BSA but not for COs? BSA also signs a chartering agreement with each Council, which basically stipulates an annual health assessment of units and several supervisory tasks. At least once a year, BSA, through its district and Council designees, would have been alerted if a unit was not following bylaws, etc. No one could blame BSA if a case occurred in units that were out of compliance and the BSA was unaware for the first months of charter, but at the end of the one year term, they should have been aware and should have revoked the chart

As far as the "Scout" name, does any of it really matter? I know BSA, and maybe even GSUSA, would like to trademark "Scout" but that is like trying to trademark "Runner" or "Tracker" or "Hunter". It's just something people do. You've got Army Scouts, Sports Scouts, etc. that are actual jobs that also use the Scout name.

It was one aspect of a longer conversation where my point is that life is very confusing for kids today. They are very different than kids in the past and their stressors, pressures, and challenges are different. The fact that they are having more difficulty coping with modern life is borne out by statistics that show ever increasing rates of depression and suicide that are showing up at younger and younger ages. They are also starting puberty much earlier, with all those hormones and stresses as well. The 10 year old you dealt with 20 or 30 or 40 years ago is different than the same aged kid

Yes, there is significant training and each district must have a HIB specialist on staff. There is a matrix and an escalation in my state too, but in daily practice in real life it basically turns into virtually anything can be interpreted as a HIB infraction and once reported it requires a mandatory investigation. It might ultimately not be ruled that way when the investigation is concluded, but the students and the families are still required to go through the process which can be intimidating. One interesting phenomenon is how easily the system and the process can be subverted by an actual

Where are you getting this information? They don't "convict" school age children of bullying. Generally cases of harassment, intimidation, and bullying are handled within the district and disciplined with detention or suspension and/or referred for counseling. The only time it would go to court is if a parent sues. The issue for today's kids, though, as I have been commenting about so frequently to you that it does feel like I am on a replay loop, is that almost anything can be interpreted as bullying or microaggression. The recipient definitely controls what is perceived as bullying

It's not circular to me. If I feel like I have to explain or defend what I said to a kid, I probably shouldn't have said it in the first place. That's why kids are different. That's my point. BSA's own membership numbers show that it has been struggling to connect with kids in recent decades. It's not just me saying kids are different. Other youth organizations seem to be doing a better job of adapting to this. A lot of organizations saw declining membership as the numbers of school age kids dropped, but none so precipitous as BSA. And many other new youth organizations have sprung up

My feeling is that if you feel like you have to defend teasing, it is probably best not done. Kids are always in a subordinate position to adults and it's hard to get a true read of what they really think even when you think you do. Kid on kid teasing is even worse. Kids today have a very strange social and cultural lanscape to navigate. Their counterparts in the 1960s may have had to worry about physical landmines; kids today have to be vigilant about not putting a foot wrong and hitting a social landmine. Say the wrong word or post the wrong thing on social media, and your life can be b

Kids today are very different in some important ways. They start puberty at younger and younger ages and are increasingly likely to be depressed. Suicide rates have increased dramatically over the past two decades, with more suicides occuring among younger, middle school age children. The events of their time are leading them to mature faster in a physical sense but obviously leaving a lot of them without the skills to cope with the stressors and pressures of their daily lives in a psychological sense. I haven't seen many adults who are capable of teasing kids in such a way that builds charact

If you have any agriculture near you, try there. We have a farm that does events through December and they rent small tents to groups for a nominal fee or sometimes you can get it for free if you also buy tickets for the corn maze or other activity. I can think of worse fall pack meetings to have. Some farmers also have equipment barns. Ask a firehouse if you can meet in one of their bays. They might be willing to move a truck outside and leave the garage bay door open for you to meet. See if there is any empty warehouse spaces or empty buildings with garage bays. Most of the

I have been hearing of councils that don't want to serve as the chartering org as well. That's something for BSA to resolve though in its reorg plan I would think.

Wouldn't the liability concerns for any future charter though be the same as for any old charter? The UMC COs that are switching to facilities use around here are doing so because they don't trust the liability situation and coverage going forward with BSA. It's not just child abuse concerns either but what would happen if there was an injury claim or some other problem. The BSA has a lot of the traditional COs completely rattled and spooked and from where I sit it doesn't look like those reactions are without cause. An organization they trusted for decades and took at their word because of th

Let's not drag the innocent Harris Hawk into this sordid tale. They are lovely creatures, which is why they are so suitable for falconry. They are less likely to talon your face.