yknot

Has it been a week yet??? Free Brittney!

Council mergers are not necessarily a bad thing. For one, one of the ongoing issues with scouting is how variable the experience is depending on what unit and council you are in and what kind of people are involved. While 'home rule' can be good it also has its downsides. Maybe some more integration and consolidation of struggling councils into more successful ones would be good overall for scouting although maybe initially painful for those affected by it.

The BSA could certainly immediately release the names of any individuals who were convicted. It could also separate out those who are in the IVF for financial, theft, or criminal reasons. An independent third party could establish criteria for whether names should be released for those abuse related situations that did not lead to conviction. I don't think the public particularly cares about the names of people who were listed because of financial malfeasance or a DUI.

I think one of the more interesting concepts that came out of Michael Johnson's statements was for the first time a senior member of BSA ackowledged that Scouting is a high risk activity when it comes to predators and child abuse. We've talked about it here on the forum but BSA has not even wanted to discuss that although it is pretty clearly a reality. I thought Vieth's outlining in black and white some of the reasons why was useful. It's why BSA can't defend itself by saying we are doing what everyone else is doing and more regarding YPT. The baseline for scouting has to be higher because of

There was just an incident from a camp this summer involving restroom cameras. The discovery of the cameras resulted in the perpetrator being caught, but a review of the cameras also captured multiple incidents of scout on scout sexual activity in the restroom. This kind of thing is obviously happening despite current youth protection policies. We don't know whether or not it was abuse -- it might have been consensual between two kids of similar ages and size -- but it was at minimum a youth on youth protection violation of concern. No parent wants to send their kid to a camp where that is occ

It is run more like a cult than a functional nonprofit organization.

I reached that point earlier than this, maybe a year ago, but found Johnson's comments validating about some of the deep concerns I have developed over the years about National and how it runs the program. In my estimation it has become a self affirming, self congratulatory out of touch cult rather than a functional, modern day nonprofit youth organization. I think there are good people involved. I think there are pockets where the program works well, but those pockets require a lot of alchemy to create and sustain. The program by itself, as administered by the National organization, cannot be

I don't think BSA is bad 100% of the time. I've loved parts of the organization. But it's also fair to note that many people who have viewed BSA in a favorable light over the years have also been those who have been interested in perpetuating some of the social issues BSA has had difficulty adapting to. A lot of those people left when gays and girls were welcomed but a lot still remain.

Parents ARE discussing youth concussions and injury rates in sports. That's part of the reason why US youth participation in sports is in decline, and in particular in football and soccer. On the other hand youth participation is up in baseball and basketball -- two sports not necessarily known for concussions. They happen, just not as visibly. One thing to consider is that scouting can be very insular. The people who are into it are often really into it, sometimes a little cult like, and it is often combined with church life, politics, world view, etc. Not so much the case with sports.

I feel like I've entered some kind of alternate reality with some of these comments. Yes, there are examples of places in BSA where it was true to it's own oath and law. However, Boy Scouts in general is not regarded by people outside of it as an example of a tolerant or inclusive organization. Over the years it has generally excluded or segregated people by race, gender, orientation, and religion. It has a history of being behind the curve on almost every important social issue. It allows this by unit to this day when it comes to religion and orientation. It also has a significant current iss

Let's not give the moderators anything more to do. I don't know any of them, but to me it seems like they are doing a lot trying to keep up with the volume of posts over the bankrutpcy. Maybe we can just try to get less offended or not worry about tiny arrows. Some of it might be generational. For example being told to Google something isn't really a pistols at dawn comment, it's just functional. We're living in a world where High School reference libraries are being turned into multimedia coffee bars because the answer to virtually anything you want to research is at your fingertips. It'

This is about abuse in the Catholic Church in France but has some interesting parallels with US BSA case: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/france-catholic-church-report-abuse/2021/10/05/05ae5c22-254c-11ec-8739-5cb6aba30a30_story.html

Yes, I've read all that too. It is illegal to sell corded blinds with pull cords because they've been recalled. The custom blinds you are talking about have been reconfigured. The general recommendation by the CSPC, property managers, realtors, blind suppliers, etc., is to throw recalled blinds out due to safety risks and liability.

See the quote by the head of the WMCA below: https://abcnews.go.com/US/window-covering-manufacturers-ban-blinds-potentially-hazardous-cords/story?id=52318032 The CSPC has enforcement powers, even for voluntary recalls, which it will exercise at will especially for products that involve child safety, which can include legal action. Why would anyone in scouting want to see scouting promoting the repair and retention of products that are illegal to sell when the recommended action and industry standard is to replace? This is a consumer item, like a crib or a car seat. You don't r

I, for one, have been specifically talking about Mic O Say in all my comments. You brought up OA and claimed MOS has nothing to do with BSA despite evidence easily obtained and provided for you at least a couple times on Google. BSA doesn't have to do anything to address it other than to enforce its own rules. Honestly, OA ought to be concerned about Mic O Say because from the perception of the general public, OA will be lumped in with Mic O Say when it all eventually blows up. The public won't see any of those fuzzy lines of distinction drawn by scouters. It's the situationally inapp

Appropriate attire is required for all activities under BSA Youth Protection and Adult Leadership rules. Start there. The recent inclusion of girls in the program, as an earlier poster noted, is a logical time for BSA to enforce its own rules.

Thank you for posting that. The Reddit poster's views are current from this summer, as are other posts with current Summer 2021 photos on Reddit. It seems almost impossible that anyone involved beyond a passing level with National or OA has never heard of this Council and its activities or would be able to dismiss them. It's debatable how "adjacent" the Council, camps, and society may be given that it is all clearly operating with BSA approval. It is using branded logos, materials, and webistes and intertwining program and fundraising aspects and leadership. I hope some of these re

That's an outdated recommendations from 2001 that has had numerous updates, including a 2020 recall. Wouldn't it be better to teach scouts to be aware of what the Consumer Safety Productions Commission is? They cover safety aspects of many things in a scout's life, from products in the home, like blinds, to vehicles to camping gear. Why ignore them? You woudn't if it was climbing rope or carbiners or propane tanks that have been recalled.

It is clearly associated with BSA. I'm not sure why you are not seeing the connection: https://www.hoac-bsa.org/mic-o-say Pick through here. You'll find a lot. https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/research-compiled-in-the-boy-scout-series-in-indian-country-today However, if you think shirtless youth wearing loincloths, even over shorts, in the company of adult men in camp ceremonies in the woods for no reason is not inappropriate from a youth protection standpoint, then that's the explanation for why this kind of thing persists. That's good news.

Search on Google and/or Facebook for Mic O Say or Scouts Native American appropriation and you'll find plenty of photos that show youth barechested in loincloths and they are current. I don't know how it persists in the present environment but it is hard to argue that BSA is the leader in youth protection with photos like those extant.

I'm not talking about swimwear, I am talking about camp ceremonies, and I am talking present day. As far as swimwear, there are a lot of scouts who are competitive swimmers and they are used to wearing performance suits. I don't see much difference between genders in that regard whether you are talking square inches of coverage or form fit. In and around the water, swim wear is appropriate.

Alright. Let me put it another way. Corded blinds are no longer being sold because they are a safety hazard. They do not meet industry standards. Where I am, if you are selling a house, you either have to remove or replace corded blinds or you have to disclose them because they are a liability risk. If you repair a corded blind in someone's house rather than replacing it with cordless, and some child accidentally strangles in the cord in the future, you have some potential liabilty. It is simply not worth teaching that skill or involving scouts in that kind of repair. And corded blinds are jus

There are many cases and claims however that do involve intentional cover up, especially if you look beyond just what has turned up on this Forum. It ultimately may not serve the best interests of BSA and children for the bankruptcy to have been filed, because if these egregious cases were told publicly in court it might jolt more people out of denial or deflection. BSA is still in effect covering up youth protection violations today. How otherwise do you explain, for example, the continued existence of units that parade youth wearing loincloths? BSA is aware but ignores it, presumably for con

I understand it's a volunteer problem, but if BSA knows it lacks the volunteers to do the job properly, should it be continuing to offer programming? The US Trustee recently asked BSA why they were pursuing Chapter 11 instead of Chapter 7 if they didn't have enough money to meet the requirements of the law. Youth Protection is the same situation. If you know you can't do the job properly, then maybe you should desist. It puts the importance of maintaining the program ahead of the safety of kids.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, what you appear to be saying is that because everyone else was doing it, getting away with it, and didn't know how to handle it, BSA should not be in this situation. Your feeling seems to be that BSA is somehow being unfairly singled out for accountability. If BSA is not held accountable, though, then how would we as a society ever begin to address child abuse? How would we make that "accountability" more fair? I'm assuming you mean some kind of higher power, like government, should realize that this is an endemic problem wherever youth are involved and ... do