yknot

If they have any kind of historic designation you can't tear them down. But frankly they have a lot of appeal to businesses like architects, art galleries, breweries that want the cachet of an unusual or landmark building. It's just changing demographics. Part of my family lives in the south and megachurches have taken over the landscape. They are almost like small cities and offer everything from coffee shops to gyms and summer camps along with services. These little rural churches can't compete with that. It's kind of analogous to scouting.

These two portions of that statement concern me. First, publicly crowing about how the UMC was able to negotiate a minimum liability contribution doesn't seem smart. Second, raising funds for the Trust seems like a conflict of interest. The drive to increase membership is why BSA so often turned a blind eye to chartering org and other oversight shortcomings. This puts the UMC in the same position of having to "sell" scouting.

In my area there are a number of fading rural and semi rural congregations, most of them UMC, that I expect might/will be consolidated, closed, and the parsonages and churches sold off. Many of these properties are very valuable and there are a number of old historic church buildings in my area that have already been converted into homes and businesses. In some cases this is ideal because the new owners are better caretakers of these historic structures than the failing congregations that can't afford to replace roofs or do other repairs. However, like scouts, it is very sad to see these commu

We assigned each rank a pack meeting and pack admin/leaders did the rest.

In multiple places, it is stated that lapsed units lose their BSA insurance until their paperwork is completed. After two months, it becomes a dropped unit and I believe you lose your unit number. The exception might be UMC units who have negotiated a March extension which is likely memorialized in formal documents. If we have learned anything from this bankruptcy process, it's not to take anything on good faith unless you have it in writing. We also know that councils often have incomplete, out of date, or wrong information. The suggestion to put it back on the CO to make the judgement call i

If your charter is expired and nonexistent you should not be running program. That has been standing BSA policy. The UMC has an agreement with BSA to extend its disputed charters to March. I do not think the Catholic Church has any such agreement. In one sense, negligence can already be assumed if the unit leadership is aware it is not chartered and yet is continuing to run program. It just seems like you are sticking your foot into a bucket of muck if anything happens. I'm not an attorney but this just seems common sense to me as sad as the situation is.

I don't think so. The current structure simply doesn't work and that's why there have been so many problems. Maybe a loose federation of independent local councils would result in the responsibility for oversight clearly residing in one place: the local level. The way it is now there are simply too many cracks in the floor for problems to fall into and no oversight or real consequences.

Trail cams and collection by photo or notebook sketch are great Leave No Trace/Outdoor Ethics ways to meet some of the requirements in some of these outdoor oriented merit badges or rank elements. There really is no reason to actually collect specimens from the wild, even insects. Unless they are invasives, like Lantern Flies, they all serve a purpose that should be respected as much as possible. The goal is learning and you can learn just as much by observing or taking a photo.

That's not the one I was referring to. It's one by elitts that was posted on Monday starting with "First..." If I could figure out how to cut and paste it here, I would do so for you. Although I disagree with the comment you selected as well. Alcohol use disorders are clearly linked to abuse. I've worked in juvenile diversion. It is a pretty common denominator that cuts across social class and standing among other things.

I have said nothing combative, simply pointed out when people are not making any sense or when I disagree. For example, I can direct you to the post on the bottom of pg. 6 where the commentor clearly states that we should not screen out functional alcoholics. Wow. I have directly stated a couple times that I don't agree with that. You may not like my opinion, but that's what it is.

If so then that's a straw man of your making since he was based on your example lol. Bottom line is that I don't think we should trust people who are hiding problems that can impair their judgement or execution of their responsiiblities around kids. This should always be the case anywhere but given all that has happened in scouting it seems to be more critical than ever. You seem to be arguing that we should not be so vigilant. I flat out don't agree with that. I don't have any problem with people who like adult beverages at the proper time or place. I certainly enjoy when appropriate. B

Again, you're not making any sense. That's an enabler's litany if I've ever heard one. I mean really, you are using this logic to propose having a narcoleptic drive kids to summer camp?

Listen, no one in scouting wants kids to be hurt, and especially not the folks on this forum. Some say some silly things, but that's only out of ignorance. Most of the people here would pull out the brass knuckles if they ever kinew, heard, saw, thought something bad was happening to a kid. We're going to figure this out. We, as a society, are going to do better going forward. This bankruptcy case is going to help with that.

Scout camp isn't cheaper when you have to take time off to volunteer to help staff the camp. I'm self employed, so that's a big expense right there. The group camps around here are more, but they offer a whole lot more. The draw for scout camp isn't that it's cheaper, it's that you get to spend a week with friends.

I agree. I wouldn't send my kids to scout camp without a parent also attending. Why did your unit pick such a distant location? Was there no discussion about cost and convenience?

Our summer camp with early sign up discount was about $450. We were required to send three adults for the week. Since no one can take off that much time from work, every parent of every scout attending had to volunteer for at least a 24 hour shift, which we could do as the camp was less than 2 hours away. Our unit actively fundraised all year long but the only part of those funds that went towards summer camp was to pay for swim tests. It is pricey. We did get a multiple sibling discount though. Ask if your camp offers that.

You're not making sense. My biggest problem in scouting has been with the functional alcoholics. The others are obvious -- no way you'd let them near a kid. It's the people who you don't suspect and who are able to hide a problem most of the time -- child abuse, drinking, drugs -- who are the issue. You trust them because you don't know they have an issue. They are part of why scouts has such an abuse issue and why it is in bankruptcy.

Hikes at the cub level are more fun if you give each one a theme. We were lucky enough to have access to a naturalist and he did a series of cold weather hikes focused on deer and deer sign, birds and small game, and trees and local plants but you could also just bone up and lead them yourselves. You could also do geocaching or simple orienteering, a nature scavenger hunt with teams, Yukon Trail style games. Maple sugaring Ice skating? Bike ride Visit a local farm to see how the animals and farmers handle the cold weather. Horse farms can be particularly interesting, esp

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but that is prohibited by federal law.

OK. Well I'd say that's a completely wrong belief on multiple levels. Adults who are dependent on alcohol should absolutely be screened out. The reasons are so obvious I don't think it's worth articulating them.

I really can't parse out what you are talking about. You strangely seem to be defending alcohol use in scouting because you don't believe it's linked to child abuse despite a preponderance of evidence otherwise, but I am sure that is not what you really mean.

That's a great John Wayne story. If only they always arrived toting a giant cooler filled with evidence lol.

Alcohol use and abuse is intrinsically linked in multiple aspects of child abuse, including sexual. Germans have very unusual attitudes towards alcohol use in general as well as alcohol consumption by minors. I am not sure what you are trying to say by pointing that out as a comparison.

I think it's still around it's just less overt. Unless you ban travel mugs and plastic water bottles, you have no idea what's in them. I had problems in my own unit when I was Committee Chair and was aware of problems elsewhere in the district, council, and region. Some of the folks on this forum are exemplary scouters in exemplary units, districts and councils. But it's a big country though and you may not be the norm. One of the issues we've seen with the abuse cases is that there is no real oversight or consequences for lack of oversight by BSA to ensure that people are following the progr

Sometimes that's true but sometimes it's more perception than reality. Case in point one camp out upon arrival a female ASM immediately pointed out scouts were setting up hammocks under deadfall with high winds forecast. The SM told her not to interfere with scouts. An hour later a male ASM upon arrival immediately ordered scouts to move the hammocks because they had set them up under deadfall with high winds forecast. He was thanked by the SM. It was the attempt at tactfulness by the female ASM vs. the direct approach by the male ASM that made the difference in how the action was perceived.