yknot

Just FYI on the Methodist side, they appear to be pretty well organized nationally and especially in my state. Every weekly email from the state conference has had a directive not to recharter until the bankruptcy is resolved. I can't envision a scenario where individual churches would defy that.

That's because other than increased fees, it hasn't had much effect unless you are in a council that is selling camps. Most councils, at least by me, are still saying business as usual. If BSA survives bankruptcy by leaving COs vulnerable, that's going to change quickly. BSA has support because it's seen as a moral force for good in the community by certain groups. If COs that have been sponsoring units in good faith start getting sued, that won't be the case. Also, I think scouting can be a bit of an echo chamber. We hear what we want to hear and dismiss what we don't. What I hear outside my scouting/community/church circles when talking to people who don't know I'm involved in scouting is different. The world is not on fire because scouting has abused tens of thousands of little boys, but there are huge demographics of parents who might smile and tuck a buck in your popcorn jar because they know your kid from little league but will never let their own kids within 100 miles of a scout unit.

Yes, it's just incomprehensible. But so much about present day life is. I don't know whether BSA is damning themselves by behaving this way, or if they've just learned to play by survive at all cost rules like everyone else. There is so much commentary about how the woke world has destroyed scouting and yet I see it as a slow collapse from within.

Two thoughts. It sounds like common horsesense, which has often been lacking. It also sounds a teensy bit like a threat. It's one thing if COs don't want to sign the traditional CO agreement. While it's yet to be worked out how councils would be able to handle that responsibility en masse, it still keeps traditional relationships in place to some degree. It's another thing if the relationship turns chilly or even hostile and a facility use agreement might be problematic. The difficulty for these COs is that many have only dealt with their local unit or maybe council level, which often operates based on warm personal relationships at the unit level and somewhat sensibly at the council level. They are just now being exposed to how national operates and it must be eye opening, especially for some of the intra denominational factions that have been so supportive so far. That might change.

That is treating him as if he has the intellect of a toddler. Lawyers may tell you what you can and cannot say, but an experienced professional in his field knows what pieces he has to work with. The defense that he came from outside scouting and therefore wouldn't know is also unbelievable. Companies like his that come in and help manage a restructuring often come in cold and have to do some degree of due diligence. It doesn't make any sense.

He's a human resources executive so his expertise is directing human resources. There aren't that many binding agreements in BSA that affect human resources, i.e., employees and volunteers, who for all intents and purposes are employees, that would be relevant in a restructuring. Chartered agreements between the council and the unit and the unit and the CO and whatever employment contracts/agreements that are in place for professionals. You could argue some subcontractor agreements. That's it. Not a big reading list. It's an unbelievable claim.

I don't know what to make of that comment by Mosby. There is no rational, reasonable explanation for that. He has a human resources background and was involved in several corporate restructurings. That's why he was put in that position. Such agreements would have been his bread and butter. Covid is yet another reason why he should have known about them because BSA's position during Covid has been to follow the direction of local health authorities and your CO. I'm not a fan of his. I think he was a poor choice but then again perhaps there wasn't anyone else willing to take that on.

I've never done a high adventure trip with scouts although we've had crews in our units go to both Phimont and Sea Base. You can never go wrong by being over prepared. Everyone might be fine in normal conditions over years of doing these trips. However, you never know when you might be faced with unexpected weather or some other unusual condition. It's a good instinct to get your scouts out swimming in open water conditions. We recently concluded the Olympics. Many successful athletes did their best to simulate Tokyo's extreme weather conditions while still at home. Do what you can.

This is high drama. I'm hanging on your every post.

Kids are a little different today. Maybe that's what Fred is referring to. It's not coddling. It's recognizing that the 10 and 11 year of today is different than the 10 year old of 20 years ago. Social media, 24 hour cable, peers, whatever, they don't have the same tolerance for games that they think make them look silly. It's why I feel like a lot of the program that seems great and nostalgic to many adults is actually out of sync for a lot of kids. When I did my first cub scout summer camp, the kids loved the shaving cream song. By the time of my last camp, they mostly thought it was really weird and uncool. That pre teen age to early teen group I think is really struggling. The world has changed so fast for them. They used to be pretty much considered kids. Now, despite the fact that they actually are taught far less coping skills, they are dealing with more and more adult situations. Some of them want to hide under the covers but others want to be treated like adults. Just my opinions, obviously.

I'm not sure what you are saying here, because your tone sounds like you are arguing with me but your words sound like you are mostly agreeing with me. The boys in Baden Powell's care were likely not at risk of being preyed upon by him simply because he was homosexual. They were safe because of his character. The homophobia in scouting that links orientation to character has confused the two. I've had double dads and double moms in my units and never worried about them. The biggest danger appears to be from people who are hiding what they are and use organizations like scouting and churches to cloak their intent.

Furthermore, to anyone of the same homophobic opinions, you need to read up on Lord Baden Powell beyond the sanitized biographies written about him. He was without doubt a repressed, crossing dressing homosexual. Still a great man, with great wisdom to impart about kids, but that is undeniably who and what he was.

In high school I had a friend who looked so like a boy she was mercilessly teased and called butch. High school reunion ten years later she looked like a super model. 20 years later happily married with kids. The class heartthrob went into acting, had minor success, and is gay with a husband and a kid. I do not care what people do in their personal lives as long as it does not hurt anyone else. Scouting's problem was not with homosexuals, it was with pedophiles. The homophobic culture of scouting only aided and abetted them in their predation. Character is character. It doesn't have a color or a gender or a religion.

We've discussed this in other threads but almost all of the BSA surveys I've taken are guided -- meaning the survey is constructed in such a way as to give support to an already desired conclusion. Gatekeeper questions keep leading responses that move towards the hoped for answers. This is a very common technique and is used by almost every entity with an agenda.

I'm sure you must be aware of this article from the LA Times from August 2012, but it does allude to some BSA policies including the fact that both probation of suspected abusers and suspensions were abolished after 1988. Up until that time, some offenders were placed on probation. There are some links to further research attached. I've always remembered this article because it was so horrific and was right around the time my eldest son crossed over to Troop. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:boAe1_XlNOMJ:https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-boyscouts-20120805-m-story.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

FYI, upstander is a pretty common term the kids have heard for years in school assemblies on bullying, inclusion, etc. Be an upstander not a bystander. I haven't taken the training but based on your excellent recap, a lot of the content you have outlined here is cribbed from standard presentations to school age audiences, including quotes, with some 2020 hotbutton updates. Not sure where this goes from here. Was anything said about Native American and other cultural representations/appropriation in scouting? I've wondered how any merit badge on this subject would square that.

If enough occurred that the ASM was forced to resign then that is enough for the youth victims to seek compensation. The fact I find most chilling is that he likely went on to have other victims elsewhere afterwards. These people are sick. They don't stop.

The wording here is that Paddle Craft is strongly recommended: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/#b Edit: The other reason to have this training is to protect yourself from liability in the event something happens.

I think what he is referring to is the conservative/liberal split within the Methodist church, which is occuring both inside and outside of the US. Many other denominations are having similar issues. It's still basically the UMC though right now.

Lotta drug detection dogs out of work due to the decriminalization of marijuana... perhaps a new career path. Camp deputy dog.

I think Eagle1970s advice was good. What you do on your own time is one thing but if you're in scouts we can't have cameras in the bathrooms. This is kind of a problem with BSA's packaged YPT. By the time it comes out, it's out of date. It needs to be a real time.

I just drove by that place the other day. My dad saw it fly overhead on it's way to Lakehurst right before it exploded.

Virtual beers and steaks have been in your inbox from time to time too, ThenNow. IRL I send actual steaks and beers, but this will have to do.

I am so appreciative of Cynical Scouter's insights and postings, along with several others on this site. There are a few people on this site who I regularly send mental steak and beer dinners on me.

Here's the version I found. Pretty horrific. https://dailyjournalonline.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/scout-chaperone-charged-after-cameras-found-in-s-bar-f-scout-ranch-shower-rooms/article_6574f813-b7fe-5790-9b74-7be6ff182fe2.html