FireStone

Is it really possible that because of some local miscommunication this whole lawsuit has emerged? Kind of fascinating that this is even possible. Surely there has to be some kind of protection for the BSA organization from local volunteers going rogue. Can the national org really get sued for a volunteer putting bad info on a facebook page or google doc?

Congratulations to Zach on his Iowa state senate win. Regardless of what anyone thinks of his politics, it's great to see an Eagle Scout rising in public service.

I've actually made the opposite argument in my Pack. I'm an Eagle and it has not prepared me at all for herding Cub Scouts. 😁

Badges aren't going away so t-shirts don't seem practical. Unless you're suggesting that we do away with badges, too.

Closer to what local units are selling, but I'm not sure it's what the BSA actually wants us to be selling anymore. I've long suspected that emphasis on uniforms was being reduced. I struggle with this often, being my Pack's recruitment/marketing/promotions guy. The stuff I get from BSA, the photos, flyers, marketing materials, it all looks quite a bit different from what daily life in the Pack looks like. I mean, the activities are there, but the look and feel of it is substantially different. And I know it puts some parents off. We got some negative reactions to doing a non-sectarian prayer recently at the close of a campfire. I've heard comments about our flag ceremonies being "very military-like", and apparently not in a way that some parents like. The uniforms (especially at the Scouts BSA level) definitely have a military look to them. That's day-to-day stuff for us locally, but nationally you won't see much (or any) of that stuff in the marketing materials.

I've suspected for a while now that the uniform might become less and less a priority in the BSA. Seems like it's already happening, based on what I've seen out of National, more people wearing just the neckerchief in the UK style (friendship knot), marketing materials and photos showing scouts in casual attire more often, etc. So it kind of doesn't matter what we think of uniform standards, as they are likely changing as we speak.

I've heard/read similar things over the years and I've never understood it, how a single adult leader can essentially do as they please and district is powerless to do anything about it. I get the whole "CO owns the unit" thing, but we're all still administering the BSA program here, and it's amazing that the BSA (at the district level) really can't do much sometimes to enforce the methods of the program. For all of the rules and regulations we have, at the end of the day it seems like any of us can do whatever we want when it comes to how we dish out the program. It's no wonder we have current threads on the subject of parent interference. Adults at all levels of involvement seem bent on doing things their own unique way, and if they know they can get away with it, what's to prevent this kind of behavior in the future? Seems likely it will only get worse.

I kind of always assumed that most Packs had their "official" roster of leadership positions and then there was the "unofficial" one that was closer to reality. CM is also a DL, DL works with more than one Den, etc. In my Pack (and I suspect a lot of Packs) there would just not be any way to sustain the program without some multi-position overlap. Does that go against what the BSA says we are supposed to do? Sure. But the alternative is that we have Dens without DLs or we don't have a CM.

The curriculum may not be but the NRA certainly is, and they don't keep their political views out of their involvement in the BSA. Here's a sampling of the materials that NRA members send home with scouts: If it were just about providing good universal curriculum, I'd have no issue with it. But because of stuff like this, along with the NRA's highly political agenda, I'd personally prefer to see the BSA end their relationship with the NRA.

Family Scouting just came up as a real thing in the BSA lexicon within the last year. How could it already be a factor in the Patrol Method? We've been seeing difficulties with maintaining the Patrol Method for years, decades even. And Family Scouting is hardly a factor in most Troops yet, at least as far as I can see around my area. Not a lot of siblings and moms going on any camping trips yet. Just seems like the timeline doesn't fit for blaming Family Scouting on any of the BSA's problems these days.

If the Patrol Method is dead in any unit, it was dying long before Family Scouting got here. Units I see today still effectively using the Patrol Method are doing so because they fostered a PM culture over many years and continue to do so. Units that stop using PM likely had other barriers to continuing on with it long ago. I don't know they story with your local unit(s), but as a possibly over-generalized comment I think blaming Family Scouting for the woes of any particular unit's shortcomings or failures is a cop-out. Patrol Method has been a struggle to maintain for many units for decades. Units that wanted to keep it going have done so, in spite of the hurdles. Blaming Family Scouting, a programing initiative that is primarily focused on the Cub level, for any failure of the Patrol Method seems misplaced.

It might just be sheer luck that I wasn't one of those Eagle Scouts. If premarital sex is a disqualifier for Eagle, I guess I should turn in my medal. I agree with previous sentiments, that it should be more about how Scouts respond to their circumstances. Do they take responsibility for their decisions? Do they do what is necessary to handle those responsibilities?

I wish that were the way it could always be. But the heavy emphasis on the importance of YPT these days makes it seem like there is very little room for us to do anything to correct any kind of behavior without always asking ourselves if we're operating within YPT guidelines. The good thing about our current YPT program is that it is structured in a way that makes it hard for us to forget about it. The bad thing about YPT is that it's structured in a way that makes it hard for us to forget about it, even in situations where maybe we didn't really need to think about it in the first place.

My Pack's policy is that if an adult is willing to take on the considerable time and effort to be a volunteer, the least the Pack can do in return is cover the dues.

Outstanding news, glad to hear they are giving these girls the chance to join and earn all the way to Eagle. Not going to lie, I might tear up a bit if I get to see Sydney Ireland wearing an Eagle medal. 😥 That girl deserves it, she's shown bravery and scout spirit above and beyond.

Heartbreaking story about the Seneca Valley boy. And the absolute failure of the school administrators to do anything about it afterward. That boy is essentially given a life sentence, he'll never be able to completely free himself of the false accusations, and his entire high school experience is forever marred by this. Meanwhile the girls get off without even a school disciplinary measure. The boys parents hands are tied, they have to file this lawsuit, even though I suspect they really don't want to. Their son has been through so much, if it were me I'd rather the nightmare end as soon as possible. But if no one else will do anything about it, what choice do they have? Personally I'm glad that women feel more emboldened today to discuss real assault and abuse. I support the intent of the "Me too" movement and at the core what it aims to do. However, although "Me too" can be a force for good it can clearly also be used as a weapon against the innocent. We need to find a fair balance in all of this and ensure that what was set out as a noble movement doesn't end up doing more harm than good.

I'm glad the clipping corners thing is gone. I never liked that a mistake was permanently marked on something that a Scout should be proud to have earned. We don't permanently mark anything else in the scouting world because of a mistake, even a safety mistake, so I never understood the need to do so with these cards. I wouldn't hesitate to take a knife from a scout if a major safety violation is witnessed. I don't care what the official policy is on that, I think safety supersedes all else and until the issue can be adequately dealt with by whoever needs to deal with it (probably DL first), the situation needs to be made safe for all.

Excellent points, I'm flush with notes on good responses now. And I like the idea of inviting the complainers to run the derby next year, until one of them takes me up on it and then changes all the rules. That Bryan article is excellent.

It's kind of hard to believe, but even though it's only October I'm already getting questions/comments about the Pinewood Derby in my Den. I'm mostly trying to put off most of the Den discussion until we're closer to the event in January, but I would be interested in some opinions so I can thoughtfully address some parent concerns when the time comes. So what I've had brought to my attention so far are these comments: Dads build the cars, it's not fair. Mr. Smith clearly built his son's winning car, you should not allow that. Can we do smaller trophies so everyone gets one? I let my son build his car last year and he came in last, so this year I'm not letting that happen. Let's have all the kids build the cars at a Den meeting and hand them in, so we know scouts made all the cars. Scouts should make their cars 100% themselves, parents should only watch. Ok, so first and foremost I have serious concerns about the general opinion of the derby among my den parents. If someone is responding their scout's loss last year by pledging to build the car themselves this year, I'm kind of sad for the state of things in my den. Now on to trying to build an improved opinion and approach to the derby... Let's get one of these items out of the way quickly. Participation trophies. Not happening. That's a Pack policy, and one I agree with. The comments about dads building the cars, and the accusation that Mr. Smith made his son's car. First, I don't know that he did. I know his son is pretty handy, involved in STEM groups/activities outside of scouting, so it's not unreasonable for me to think that he had a lot of involvement in building his car. I don't expect any scout to build a car 100% from start to finish. It's supposed to be a collaborative project with parents. The paint job was (in my opinion) clearly done by the scout. The shape of the car was pretty basic, so who can say if a kid or parent made it. Just because it won I'm not going to assume that it was overly parent-made. What do you say to that parent making that accusation? The suggestion to build the cars at a Den meeting isn't unreasonable, coming from the same concern that dads build the cars and wanting to have more scout hands-on involvement. Although I struggle with that one because I worry that making this a group activity takes away the intent of the derby to begin with, a fun project for a scout and parent to do together. I guess overall I'm struggling with the balance between scout-built and parent-built, and how to express that to the den parents. And it seems really hard to put that into any sort of rules or regulations. Especially when I'm being asked in some cases to go outside of Pack rules and institute our own specific den rules. Or to lobby the Pack to change rules. Any suggestions for how to handle these questions/comments I'm getting?

Horrible. Just horrible. Praying for those scouts.

Neckerchief slides have been a hot topic in my pack. Lots of parents and leaders have expressed frustration with the ever-changing uniform each and every year of cub scouts. Cub scouts should have a universal neckerchief slide for all ranks. Some folks think we should have a universal neckerchief for the whole Pack, and I don't disagree. Until they do that, and in light of this recall which means I have to tell all of my den parents to return those slides, we're going with a DIY solution. I'm bringing paracord to the next den meeting and we'll make our own. It's bad enough that we have to buy new stuff every year, with pretty frequent price increases (seems like not all that long ago slides were just $2). Now we're paying those rising prices for cheap (unsafe) merchandise.

We had a good turnout at our recruitment night, but still a lot of siblings in attendance who aren't joining. I spoke to a family of 4 kids, all scouting age, and only the 1 boy was joining, his 3 older sisters were not. One of our Den Leaders with a daughter told me she doesn't want to join. We did have a lot of interest among girls for the Lions program, and a few Tigers. But it doesn't look like families who already had boys in the Pack are getting their daughters to sign up so easily. So while I'm encouraged by the overall numbers, I suspect it's still a lot of mixed reactions and interest levels on a local basis.

Reading this thread up to this point and not knowing whether your sone would be staying with this troop, I was kind of wondering how that would work out. In all unfortunate likelihood this SM would have made life more difficult for him going forward. Sad that it came to this but in these kinds of situations there often is no other way forward. Glad to hear your son is happy to continue scouting elsewhere.

That sounds about right to me. Girls are in Cub Scouts now. Troops can't invite Packs/Dens that are open to girls to Troop functions and then say "No girls allowed."

We charge $85, which covers the usual stuff and we give each scout Boys' Life, a neckerchief, and handbook. We do charge for activities and trips throughout the year. Usually $15 per person for camping trips, B&G, $10 or less for other activities. End of year picnic is free for all scouts and families.