FireStone

If the Patrol Method is dead in any unit, it was dying long before Family Scouting got here. Units I see today still effectively using the Patrol Method are doing so because they fostered a PM culture over many years and continue to do so. Units that stop using PM likely had other barriers to continuing on with it long ago. I don't know they story with your local unit(s), but as a possibly over-generalized comment I think blaming Family Scouting for the woes of any particular unit's shortcomings or failures is a cop-out. Patrol Method has been a struggle to maintain for many units for decades. Units that wanted to keep it going have done so, in spite of the hurdles. Blaming Family Scouting, a programing initiative that is primarily focused on the Cub level, for any failure of the Patrol Method seems misplaced.

It might just be sheer luck that I wasn't one of those Eagle Scouts. If premarital sex is a disqualifier for Eagle, I guess I should turn in my medal. I agree with previous sentiments, that it should be more about how Scouts respond to their circumstances. Do they take responsibility for their decisions? Do they do what is necessary to handle those responsibilities?

I wish that were the way it could always be. But the heavy emphasis on the importance of YPT these days makes it seem like there is very little room for us to do anything to correct any kind of behavior without always asking ourselves if we're operating within YPT guidelines. The good thing about our current YPT program is that it is structured in a way that makes it hard for us to forget about it. The bad thing about YPT is that it's structured in a way that makes it hard for us to forget about it, even in situations where maybe we didn't really need to think about it in the first place.

My Pack's policy is that if an adult is willing to take on the considerable time and effort to be a volunteer, the least the Pack can do in return is cover the dues.

Outstanding news, glad to hear they are giving these girls the chance to join and earn all the way to Eagle. Not going to lie, I might tear up a bit if I get to see Sydney Ireland wearing an Eagle medal. 😥 That girl deserves it, she's shown bravery and scout spirit above and beyond.

Heartbreaking story about the Seneca Valley boy. And the absolute failure of the school administrators to do anything about it afterward. That boy is essentially given a life sentence, he'll never be able to completely free himself of the false accusations, and his entire high school experience is forever marred by this. Meanwhile the girls get off without even a school disciplinary measure. The boys parents hands are tied, they have to file this lawsuit, even though I suspect they really don't want to. Their son has been through so much, if it were me I'd rather the nightmare end as soon as possible. But if no one else will do anything about it, what choice do they have? Personally I'm glad that women feel more emboldened today to discuss real assault and abuse. I support the intent of the "Me too" movement and at the core what it aims to do. However, although "Me too" can be a force for good it can clearly also be used as a weapon against the innocent. We need to find a fair balance in all of this and ensure that what was set out as a noble movement doesn't end up doing more harm than good.

I'm glad the clipping corners thing is gone. I never liked that a mistake was permanently marked on something that a Scout should be proud to have earned. We don't permanently mark anything else in the scouting world because of a mistake, even a safety mistake, so I never understood the need to do so with these cards. I wouldn't hesitate to take a knife from a scout if a major safety violation is witnessed. I don't care what the official policy is on that, I think safety supersedes all else and until the issue can be adequately dealt with by whoever needs to deal with it (probably DL first), the situation needs to be made safe for all.

Excellent points, I'm flush with notes on good responses now. And I like the idea of inviting the complainers to run the derby next year, until one of them takes me up on it and then changes all the rules. That Bryan article is excellent.

It's kind of hard to believe, but even though it's only October I'm already getting questions/comments about the Pinewood Derby in my Den. I'm mostly trying to put off most of the Den discussion until we're closer to the event in January, but I would be interested in some opinions so I can thoughtfully address some parent concerns when the time comes. So what I've had brought to my attention so far are these comments: Dads build the cars, it's not fair. Mr. Smith clearly built his son's winning car, you should not allow that. Can we do smaller trophies so everyone gets one? I let my son build his car last year and he came in last, so this year I'm not letting that happen. Let's have all the kids build the cars at a Den meeting and hand them in, so we know scouts made all the cars. Scouts should make their cars 100% themselves, parents should only watch. Ok, so first and foremost I have serious concerns about the general opinion of the derby among my den parents. If someone is responding their scout's loss last year by pledging to build the car themselves this year, I'm kind of sad for the state of things in my den. Now on to trying to build an improved opinion and approach to the derby... Let's get one of these items out of the way quickly. Participation trophies. Not happening. That's a Pack policy, and one I agree with. The comments about dads building the cars, and the accusation that Mr. Smith made his son's car. First, I don't know that he did. I know his son is pretty handy, involved in STEM groups/activities outside of scouting, so it's not unreasonable for me to think that he had a lot of involvement in building his car. I don't expect any scout to build a car 100% from start to finish. It's supposed to be a collaborative project with parents. The paint job was (in my opinion) clearly done by the scout. The shape of the car was pretty basic, so who can say if a kid or parent made it. Just because it won I'm not going to assume that it was overly parent-made. What do you say to that parent making that accusation? The suggestion to build the cars at a Den meeting isn't unreasonable, coming from the same concern that dads build the cars and wanting to have more scout hands-on involvement. Although I struggle with that one because I worry that making this a group activity takes away the intent of the derby to begin with, a fun project for a scout and parent to do together. I guess overall I'm struggling with the balance between scout-built and parent-built, and how to express that to the den parents. And it seems really hard to put that into any sort of rules or regulations. Especially when I'm being asked in some cases to go outside of Pack rules and institute our own specific den rules. Or to lobby the Pack to change rules. Any suggestions for how to handle these questions/comments I'm getting?

Horrible. Just horrible. Praying for those scouts.

Neckerchief slides have been a hot topic in my pack. Lots of parents and leaders have expressed frustration with the ever-changing uniform each and every year of cub scouts. Cub scouts should have a universal neckerchief slide for all ranks. Some folks think we should have a universal neckerchief for the whole Pack, and I don't disagree. Until they do that, and in light of this recall which means I have to tell all of my den parents to return those slides, we're going with a DIY solution. I'm bringing paracord to the next den meeting and we'll make our own. It's bad enough that we have to buy new stuff every year, with pretty frequent price increases (seems like not all that long ago slides were just $2). Now we're paying those rising prices for cheap (unsafe) merchandise.

We had a good turnout at our recruitment night, but still a lot of siblings in attendance who aren't joining. I spoke to a family of 4 kids, all scouting age, and only the 1 boy was joining, his 3 older sisters were not. One of our Den Leaders with a daughter told me she doesn't want to join. We did have a lot of interest among girls for the Lions program, and a few Tigers. But it doesn't look like families who already had boys in the Pack are getting their daughters to sign up so easily. So while I'm encouraged by the overall numbers, I suspect it's still a lot of mixed reactions and interest levels on a local basis.

Reading this thread up to this point and not knowing whether your sone would be staying with this troop, I was kind of wondering how that would work out. In all unfortunate likelihood this SM would have made life more difficult for him going forward. Sad that it came to this but in these kinds of situations there often is no other way forward. Glad to hear your son is happy to continue scouting elsewhere.

That sounds about right to me. Girls are in Cub Scouts now. Troops can't invite Packs/Dens that are open to girls to Troop functions and then say "No girls allowed."

We charge $85, which covers the usual stuff and we give each scout Boys' Life, a neckerchief, and handbook. We do charge for activities and trips throughout the year. Usually $15 per person for camping trips, B&G, $10 or less for other activities. End of year picnic is free for all scouts and families.

College is meaningless if you go just for the sake of getting a degree. What I don't get is the mentality that college is just about the degree. Every high school kid gets it drilled into them that if they want to get into a good college they need to do more than just show up in class throughout high school. And yet when they get to college, all they do is show up for class and work towards graduation, and then wonder why they end up feeling like it was a waste. I don't think college is a waste of time or money, as long as you go there intent on doing something to better yourself and grow from the experience, in addition to getting that degree. My college had mandatory community service project time required of every freshman (I worked for Habitat for Humanity). I learned the most valuable lessons throughout my college experience outside of the classroom. And I grew as a person more than I think I would have without the college experience. Lots of so-called "experts" today want to quantify the value of a college education, put a number to it and figure out if it pays off. But their only determining factor in that seems to be the question of whether you get a job in your chosen field after college and how much that job pays. My profession (art director, graphic design) doesn't require a degree. In many job interviews I've been on, college never even came up. It's all about your portfolio, showing what you can do, not what school name is printed on your diploma. But who I am, the person I became after those years away from home and in college, the connections I made and the path my life took afterward, that was all heavily driven by just being in college, going through that experience and growing from it. Somehow this particular discussion about the value of college often comes down to putting the blame on the schools, that they don't prepare kids for jobs, they are somehow failing their students. I don't agree with that. College is an opportunity. It's up to every college student to decide what to do with that opportunity, and just like every other educational step in the lives of students before college, nothing is guaranteed at the end just because you showed up. This belief that colleges are failing students is entirely turned around. It's the students failing themselves, or maybe the parents failing their kids, if those students go to college thinking they're entitled to (or guaranteed) something at the end of it just because they showed up to class and passed the tests, or that the benchmark for a worthwhile college experience only goes as far as some perceived dollar value of that degree.

Exactly what programs are now being tailored specifically to the needs of girls? I've only been seeing an increased promotion of the availability of traditionally boy-favored programs aimed at bringing in more girls. Like inviting more girls to participate in STEM programs, for example. But they're not changing those programs to focus on girls. Is something different happening in your neck of the woods?

I came up in the generation that was tasked similarly to today's cub scout, having to change neckerchiefs and hats every year. And I have none of them in my box of old Scouting stuff, because I think at some point they held little sentimental meaning to me. Change stuff this often and it holds little value to those who wear it. It's just a throw-away item that kids burn through in a year and move on to the next thing.

I was told at my council Scout Shop (Northern NJ) that they have 50,000 yellow Wolf neckerchiefs in stock. Now I don't know if that means 50,000 for our council (hard to believe), for the regional area, state, etc. But I guess the point was that there are still a lot of yellow ones around.

My gut feeling on this so far has been that we're moving to something that more closely resembles UK scouting. So going fully coed is part of that, and I suspect it has always been the BSA plan. But to make the move a bit easier to swallow, they are doing this transitional separated troops/packs/dens thing. I don't have a crystal ball, but my expectation of the future of the BSA is we're fully coed within a decade.

We just had our sign-up night and got 14 new Scouts, of which I believe 4 were girls. 2 Lions, 1 Wolf, and 1 Webelos. I expect we'll get a few more in the coming weeks (people take home the information and sometimes sign up later). Last year we signed up 5 new Scouts total, so definitely a nice increase over last year.

If exhausting the existing supply of yellow neckerchiefs is the criteria for rolling out the red ones, current Wolf scouts could possibly be Eagle Scouts by the time the red ones are made available.

I've discovered the value of a truly good Den Chief recently. Like I had no idea I had a really good one and only found out when I heard about how little some of the other Den Chiefs contribute to the other Dens in my Pack. A good Den Chief (or two) can be a lifesaver, I'd imagine even more so in a struggling Den where the adults need a lot of help.

It's very unfortunate that his response was to hold firm on his unreasonable policy. And his policy, while having only good intentions, is indeed unreasonable. You mentioned that your son was at camp for a week, where there would be plenty of opportunity to have a conference. And your son attended Ordeal weekend recently, where as someone mentioned would be tough to hold a SM conference at but still it shows your son is active and attends events beyond the weekly troop meeting. He's doing what the SM wants, to have older scouts active on trips. It just happens that the one opportunity the SM is giving your son to have the conference is one of the seemingly few times that he can't make it. That's entirely unreasonable.

Correcting the records with documented evidence doesn't mean the evidence is the record. Like it or not, if National says Scoutbook is the official record, that's what it is.