AltadenaCraig

Agreed. The question is, why? Some would argue this is purely due to human development during Jr. High / Middle school. I say its because quality scout units successfully ween over-indulgent hyper-involved Akela's from their newly minted Scouts. I see the same thing, but I draw a wholly different conclusion. During Webelos, if not before, we should be marketing Scouts BSA as "break time" for Akela's Give these parents the "well done" thank-you's and then invite them onto the Troop Committee, but emphasize that activity involvement is the role of the SM/ASM's and the PLC, with supp

Love this idea. Agreed, Jameson76. But how do we "laser-focus" without some kind of metric? I'm a big supporter of JTE, but I think it needs to measure scout-lead outdoor activities. Our district is chock-full of adults who are focused on completing "Merit Badge Packets" but who couldn't "Go Do Stuff" to save their lives. If our girls-in-Scouts-BSA is to be successful. We HAVE to have metrics that accurately identify and discriminate the Green-Bar-Bill units from the posers. From your words to God's eyes. Amen.

Like DuctTape, I too agree with your observation that the methods are largely complimentary. However I subscribe to the notion there's one common denominator: The Patrol Method. Clarke Green over at scoutmastercg.com posits one can reasonably derive the others from this one method, but not necessarily vice versa. If not the primary method, I would at least consider The Patrol Method the first among equals. Clarke similarly finds "Character Development" as a common denominator among scouting's Aims. Here's the link to his podcast where he says it much better than I: https://scoutmastercg.

Agreed. We're all adults (not to mention volunteers & teammates) and should behave as such. It's one thing to approach adult personal behavior In General as an educational opportunity - of course we should all be students of the scout oath and law (though, alas, I personally require repeated instruction). It''s another for any of us to appear to call-out the behavior of other adults under the veil of championing those values. No one appointed any of us Lone Ranger.

Qwazse: I follow your posts and appreciate them as coming from a good egg. I expect you'd be the kind of person to take any constructive criticism well. My guess is that if I heard you say something that really offended me I'd have the confidence to approach you personally and mention my discomfort, knowing that you would appreciate my sharing my feelings. If her relationship with the potty-mouth is secure, I'd advise Wisconsin Momma to similarly make mention of her feelings one-on-one. If it's not, then let it go. We're here for Scouts' character development, not that of Scou

WisconsinMomma: Keep your focus on Scouts, not on adults. You don't have time for this rabbit-hole, inviting the risk of being seen as a moralizer or a prude, etc. Of course, if this language is used in earshot of Scouts that's a different matter. Adult-only committee meetings? Let it go.

Thanks to all ... I'm really getting a lot out of this thread. I'm encouraged by my younger patrols - they're exhibiting high enthusiasm for what I'll call "vanilla scouting": Patrol method in the outdoors. They're engaged and reasonably attentive at PLC's, they have fun with one another, and the more advanced of my younger scouts exhibit care and concern for the youngest - taking them under their wings and helping them with skills, advancement, etc. Perfect! My struggle is with my oldest scouts. I hate to "write them off", but I'm just there with them. I've concluded that my pr

I really like ParkMan's "stages". Parkman may not have served, but I was an active-duty regular US Army officer for several years, and Parkman's model works into my thinking. But I guess that really shouldn't be a surprise given Scouting's development. Arguably it was Baden-Powell's Boer War leadership skills that gave context and structure to the wonderful outdoor experiences which Beard and Seton were introducing to the youth of their day. I gather the "problem" we're trying to solve here is the Patrol Method for "Stage 3" or thereabouts within the upcoming G2SS. I'm envious of thos

I've begun floating to my Troop Committee the idea of establishing one or more Venture Crews for our older scouts. I'd avoided it previously because I foresaw the boys continuing to work toward Eagle while any girls who'd joined didn't have that option. Moreover there didn't seem to be all that much that a venture crew could do that a scout patrol couldn't. Now with girls able to pursue Eagle, as well as the murky G2SS impending requirements, it's dawning on me that Venturing will be my Underground Railroad to freedom for my older scout patrols. Such a transition might be a little

Anything in particular regarding his vision that you're comfortable sharing?

I think they do, too, which is what scares me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a closet atheist - far from it - but I do agree with the earlier posts that Duty to God is redundant given our other values. Moreover, singling that duty out from the others (and without providing additional training or strict limitations on how to discuss that duty), is an invitation to our more fervent scouters to infuse their beliefs into other aspects of the program. My District has already had to remove one Eagle BOR chair for his grilling of candidates' beliefs. With National's doubling-down on the policy

Queue Clarke Green at Scoutmastercg.com https://scoutmastercg.com/category/patrol-method/

I heard it at our last Commissioner's meeting and I about blew a gasket - for all of the reasons stated earlier. Any Council with any sense will try do what the service academies did when they graduated the first females in 1980: They'll bundle all of those with eligibility (based on a range of birthdays) into a "class". There won't be any "first" individuals, just the first class.

Bingo. I've enjoyed - and hope to continue to enjoy - the camaraderie of my LDS Scouter friends (they can still enjoy scouting independent of their church - if they can't, that's another problem). But I've long felt the "LDS Scouting" publications and special classes at Commissioner College made me feel not only that the "tail was wagging the dog", but frankly I felt a tad resentful at the apparent exclusivity.

Well that’s what I get for relying on my memory; nice catch NJCubScouter (I’ll swear that strip read Cub Scouts BSA in my day ... but that was 50 years ago!)

More likely the ribbon above the uniform right breast pocket, which for Cubs and Venturers says "Cub Scouts BSA" and "Venturing BSA". Seems reasonable that "Scouts BSA" would be a logical fit between the other two programs.

No kidding. Note that nowhere in this thread do we see "Camp Fire Girls" or "Campfire". Mark my words, GSUSA, you're about to become similarly irrelevant ... and you've brought it all on yourselves. My goodness, with the NY chapter of NOW thumping on us on the one hand and apparently genuine appeals from young ladies seeking "Eagle Scout" on the other, the BSA was straining credulity to ignore the situation. Talk about a gift horse. If the GSUSA had promoted their Gold Award half as effectively as they've marketed Thin Mints and Do-Si-Do's we wouldn't be having this conversation.

LOVE this! Dorsey, Miller ... and Slide Hampton!! Our Troop meets near the Rose Bowl and annually attends the parade. Big-10 bands are ALWAYS the best - hands down (something to do with the weather, maybe?) I remember Purdue at the '67 Rose Bowl; later that month your school lost two great alums in Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee. I made a fuss about the beauty of 'To the Color' followed by 'Retreat', IMHO. But Tatoo beats them all. Though not a MB required piece (likely because its too long) it's lovely nevertheless: http://www.music.army.mil/music/buglecalls/tattoo.asp

Wonderful stuff, TAHAWK; thank you so much for the scan and the share. I'm reading it carefully and notice that pages 14 & 15 appear to be missing from the scan, above. If you have access to those pages, would you be so kind as to include them as well? Thanks again for your kindness - - Craig

Wow, congratulations to Bugleson ... and to your Troop for having a Bugler - super! I'll risk being nit-picky (just because I'm bored right now) and suggest a few modifications to SSScout's wonderful post, above. Note, all of the bugle calls in the links below are required per the Bugling Merit Badge: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Merit_Badge_ReqandRes/Bugling.pdf 1. I like the idea of alerting the Troop with "First Call", but as it's officially a "warning that personnel will prepare to assemble for a formation", perhaps the SPL could announce the call with "Ladies &am

I don't suppose you have drafts available that you would be able to share on this thread? Would make a wonderful Christmas present to us!

We're a "Thorns & Roses (& Buds)" Troop as well. Yep, a great way to clear the air around the final-night campfire; each scout gets to contribute and be heard. At the following troop meeting we pull from another old-school (JLT ?) tradition: the "Par-18" evaluation. After the opening ceremony, the SPL calls for a voice-vote on each of the previous weekend's activities, requiring consensus on each question (from one to three ... you know it was really awful if they yell "zero!"): Was the job completed? Was it completed On Time? Was it completed correctly?

I had a similar experience. One year our Troop sent a critical mass of scouts to NYLT who came back all fired-up, etc. That was the last time our troop sent any scouts to NYLT until I took over as Scoutmaster four years later. Thus the need to promote attendance and in include that as part of the "grade". Potential "gaming"? No doubt. I expect that happens across all organizations and industries. But it shouldn't stop us from trying.

I'm actually rather fond of the JTE as a balanced scorecard. At a high level it emphasizes a sustainable, fiscally responsible organization with a program providing overnight camping and service projects. All good metrics at the organizational level. But an organizational scorecard provides only one view. Nearly all of the concerns expressed in this thread are with operations (Scout-lead vs. Adult-lead) ... for which the JTE can't measure, nor was it designed to measure. I strongly agree the BSA should take longer strides at QA of the operational component, along the lines of "

I'm more sympathetic to mentorship. I agree we should avoid "checklists" and "policies", etc., which in my experience result in tying my hands as Scoutmaster more than they compel performance in a POR. On the other hand I do see value in the mentor idea in order to "set a scout up for success" when refocusing or starting a troop anew. At the risk of taking some quotes on this thread out of context, here are a couple of examples: In providing logistical and administrative support, a fully staffed Troop Committee typically has an Equipment Coordinator and a Chaplain. Isn't it rea