Eagle94-A1

While it is noble to listen, sometimes you need to explain why it cannot be and have them face reality. There have been many girls who wanted to be Scouts. Sea Scouts, Exploring, and Venturing have been coed for a long time. Is it fair to those girls who have followed the rules, were members of the BSA, but not give them Eagle because they did not spend summers in Canada? Best Example I can give are teh fraternal twins that were in my district. Brother was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Venturer. He became an Eagle. Sister tagged along for Cub Scouts, got briefly involved in GSUSA and quit, then got into Venturing as soon as she turned 14. Is it fair to her?

@Oldscout448 I sympathize with you. This is not the same program many of us signed up for. But there are some who are fighting tooth and nail to keep it the way it has been for as long as possible. But man is it frustrating. Parents are so focused on the recognition that they do not care about the experiences their child will have. Corporate hiring folks with academic credentials, but no real experience. But again, there are folks fighting tooth and nail. I think about you when I'm on the trail this weekend. Yep my new troop is going backpacking.

Yes, we want her to go through the entire process properly, just like all the other young men, and now women, in Scouting. While it is an exceptional point in Scouting, it is still not a time to reward those who have violated BSA policy. Her argument originally was that she had done the work while not registered with the BSA and tagging along with her brother and dad. While I had not seen tagalongs except at Cub Scouts until recently, apparently this is a big thing in other areas. If she receives Eagle for that, what about all the other sisters who tagged along througout the years? Her current argument, the one apparently the one her Scout Exec approved of, is that she earned Scouts Canada's highest award, and should be given credit for that. And they did, to Life. The problem that many of us have is A) the family did this as a way of bypassing BSA policy and B) she is not Canadian and thus does not meet the "Youth from other countries who temporarily reside in the United States, or have moved here..." portion of the G2A. Again she and her family want to be rewarding for ignoring the rules.Sadly it does a great disservie to the other young ladies in Scouting who have played by the rules. Sadly you would be surprised. While I agree with national making Ms. Ireland wait like everyone else, I have seen cases where individuals received Eagle without earning it. In my district recently, we had one Scout who did not complete his Eagle Project in time. Long story short, the benefiting organization kicked him and the Scouts working with him off the property because not only did he not follow directions given to him, the damage he caused required a contractor, and could have caused the benefiting organization to be fined due to lack of ADA access. Further, after 20+ years of working with Scouts on doing Eagle Projects, they no longer allow Scouts to do work their. It was only after threats of lawsuits that he received his Eagle. But the worse case was the one National approved after being denied at the district and council level appeal. major problems were discovered, and it was my first encounter with 'pencil whipping" The Scout was 13, and had plenty of time to rectify the situation.National stated "you do not punish the Scout for the mistakes of the adults" in their letter to council granting his Eagle. When the district advancement committee got the letter, they resigned in protest, stating " national can conduct these boards of review now."

Correct. Even for Eagle Scout, National will give the Scout their Eagle even if not properly earned. Regarding Ms. Ireland, I am told she will indeed have to wait, despite her local council apparently giving her Life.

Yes, I do not think my method of putting holes in my hat is a good one. Being shot at by German Scouts was not fun. And yes holes in the brim and body lead to water under the collar and in your hair. Definately need a raincover when I wear it out. My "new" Smokey however is still in it's press and only worn for ceremonial stuff. 25 years old and still looks new.

So the local council is approving Life, based upon her work in Canada. If she was Canadian, I could understand. But she is a US Citizen, and doesn't meet the "Youth from other countries who temporarily reside in the United States...." part.

With some of the suits I have seen, that is a real concern even without stuff sewed onto them. Some of the incidents that have happened in the Olympics, i.e. suits splitting during a meet, have happened at the meets I guarded at.

Upon closer look, I think it is. Sidney Ireland is the most prominent, but I am willing to bet there are others who are taking short cuts and what not. sad thing is that there are girls who are busting butt and are doing it by the book, but because of a few we are questioning them as well. Sadly this is not a girl only phenomenon. I see it with boys too. Heck one Eagle Scout I met got it after appealing to both the Council, and National. National finally gave it to him because "you do not penalize the Scout for the mistakes of the adults." Entire district advancement committee resigned in protest.

These pictures of Sidney Ireland in a Scouts BSA uniform at the State of the Union Address on February 5, 2019 which was 4 days after girls were allowed in. Note teh Life Rank.

Chocolate? CHOCOLATE! WE WANT CHOCOLATE!

My comments are not directed at the girls only, but ALL Scouts. IMHO there is indeed a trend of "rank inflation," or more specifically a lowering of advancement standards by national that has lead to "rank inflation." The standard for advancement use to be "Master the Skills" as stated in BSHBs prior to the 12th edition in 2009. But even before 2009, I was seeing a lot of "one and done" in regards to advancement. Even with the removal of "Master the Skills" from the BSHB, the Guide to Advancement stated until approximately 2015, "The badge represents what a Scout CAN DO, (sic) not what he has done." Now "Master the Skills" is not in there. And the Guide to Advancement states, "Advancement, thus, is not so much a reward for what has been done. It is, instead, more about the journey: As a Scout advances, the Scout is measured, grows in confidence and self-reliance, and builds upon skills and abilities learned. The badge signifies that a young person—through participation in a series of educational activities—has provided service to others, practiced personal responsibility, and set the examples critical to the development of leadership; all the while working to live by the Scout Oath and Scout Law."

Cross Over use to mean one specific event: Moving from CUB SCOUTS TO BOY SCOUTS (now SCOUTS BSA) . Don't know when the term started being used to mean moving from Tigers to Wolves, Wolves to Bears, and Bears to Webelos, but IMHO it has denigrated the actual Cross Over Ceremony. Yes moving up within Cub Scouts can be a big deal, but it is not the same as moving fromthe Cub Scout program to the Scouts BSA program.

In my humble opinion, YES EACH CANOE NEEDS A MAP OF SOME SORT! (emphasis and here on out emphasis too ) Doesn't matter if it's map case and bought maps, or made your own in ziplocs. THINGS HAPPEN. I was in LaDomaine, Quebec paddling and a storm hit. We got all stretched out, buddy boats didn't stick together, and my canoe was by itself, out of site of everyone. We had no idea where the rest of the group was, and kept paddling, hoping we were on the right patch to catch up with them. Thankfully we were, and we found them. Especially since I got hypothermia. 🔵

You are correct, it is not new science. However when I teach BLS, there is a lot of confusion regarding when to use Compression Only CPR, which is only on adults. Even instructors were saying you can do compression only on infants and children. Had to show the journal that said still needed to do mouth to mouth, or mouth to mouth and nose, for infants and children. Actually they want you to start with compressions, then breaths now. The idea is that some oxygen is still in the bloodstream, and by pumping, you can get it going where needed.

Guide to Advancement stated that until recently, I want to say until about 2015 or thereabouts. And no, they have dumbed down the standards.

Once upon a time, they did for the youth. I remember when a first aid certification, let alone a WFA cert was not needed to do high adventure. Just 13 and First Class, which at the time required First Aid Merit Badge, or higher. Maybe National requires the various certs because it recognizes "One and Done" is becoming the norm? Heck even the G2A no longer says such things as "Master the Skills" and "The Badge represent what the Scout CAN DO (sic) not what he has done." Instead the G2A says "Remember, it is more about the journey. A badge recognizes what a Scout has done toward achieving the primary goal of personal growth." 😞

Once upon a time, a NCS certified COPE director could do the inspections on those structures over 6 feet. Sadly I did not have any time with the troop I grew up in to let them build the Boatswain's Chair we use to do at Scout Shows. a 25-30 foot tower on one side, 20-25 foot on the other, aircraft grade steel rope connecting the two, and a USN Boatswain's Chair to ride between the two towers. One pioneering project I have seen done, and the Scouts love, is catapults. One of the activities in the old JLTC syllabus, today's NYLT, was building catapults and launching water balloons at the other patrols. It's a great way to cool everyone off on a hot summer day. Staff had a blast walking in with ours already made and pelting the participants while they built theirs. 😎

Yep, found the relevant clause in G2A and changed my post. you beat me to it.

I thought I read somewhere that T-2-1 physical fitness requirements and Personal Fitness requirements cannot be completed at the same time. Never mind. Found out double dipping is now allowed by the Guide to Advancement 2019 unless specifically prohibited by the requirements. 😠

The pack I had been in for the past 10 years, and many packs I had the honor of either performing at, or watching my OA chapter team perform at, had BOTH ceremonies done the same night. Depending upon the pack, or the situation in the pack, either the AOL Ceremony had a specific ending and the troop(s) took over for the Cross Over Ceremony, or the two ceremonies were interconnected. But it is always two separate ceremonies. Why two Ceremonies? Not everyone continues into Scouting. I have seen some Webelos just receive the AOL, then not Cross Over. I personally would rather see this, than the Webelos Cross Over, then never be seen again, especially after handing out over $100 of troop neckers, slides, etc. Yes a Troop I was in was told a bunch of Webelos were Crossing Over to them, when the pack knew before the ceremony they were leaving Scouting after earning AOL. Not only a huge chunk of change was lost when we were on a very tight budget, but a lot of time was wasted as the neckers and slides were handmade by adults in the troop. I have also seen Scouts who did not earn AOL, but had turned 11 and were Crossing Over with their den anyway. Usually these were the guys who joined either late in 4th grade, or in 5th grade, and had to earn Bobcat, Webelos, and AOL. With the 2015 Program Change, and its 2016 revision, that won't happen as they now need to earn Bobcat and AOL.

I think part of the negativity towards this Scout is that there has indeed been adults saying their girls will be the first female Eagle, and they will do anything to reach that goal. Sidney Ireland is the best example of this as her troop has been pushing this issue since before girls were allowed. Sidney is currently wearing a Life rank, despite just having enough time as a Scout for only First Class, let alone Star and Life, and they have been pushing an Eagle Project on their council. Part of it is that a lot of experienced Scouts have seen this "Eagle at any costs" attitude before when it was just boys. Heck I ran into one Eagle whose family was SM, ASM, and COR/CC, as well as MBCs, and sped him along the trail. When his EBOR caught discrepencies and problems and told him how to rectify the problems, they appealed to the council (and lost), then to National. National granted him Eagle stating "you do not penalize the Scout for the errors of adults," which caused an entire district advancement committee to quit in protest. Those who have not truly earned Eagle, not only do a disservice to themselves and other Eagles, but to all Scouts. I believe the concern to keep the standards is the cause of the "negativity."

My thoughts. If she actually met the requirements AS WRITTEN, and truly "Master the Skill" needed for advancement, good for her. Now it's time to give back to her patrol and troop while continuing her journey. HOWEVER, if short cuts were made, fudging done to get stuff checked off, and a few other things I've seen done with boy units as well, Then I am strongly opposed to this. And as others have stated it does a disservice not only to the Scout, but others as well who will see her with that First Class Rank, and expect her to have the knowledge, skills, and abilities that rank entails when she does not. I have worked with Scouts who had First Class or higher rank, and couldn't do basic skills like knot tying or first aid. Heck this past weekend at camporee, EVERY SINGLE PATROL needed some instruction to complete the knot tying event I staffed. NSPs I could understand, but we are talking venture patrols ( do they still call the older scout patrol that?) with Life and Eagles in them. Advancement should be a journey, not a race. Eagle is not the goal of Scouting, but rather a recognition. The goal is to produce responsible, informed, and active citizens.

Compression Only is Friends and Family. Although it is mentioned in Basic Life Support. Sorry it's been a while since I taught Heartsaver so I need to review if they practice it or it's just mentioned. Just remember, if it is a infant or child, YOU MUST DO RESCUE BREATHS! ( MAJOR EMPHASIS). Compression only CPR is not effective with kids because the problem is most likely to be respiratory and not cardiac. Had a discussion about this with another instructor about it and had to pull out the actual article explaining the new science.

Depends upon which AHA class you take. Friends and Family is the compression only CPR class. It's very basic, and it's purpose is to get folks comfortable doing something in an emergency. The Heartsaver series (Heartsaver CPR and AED; Heartsaver First Aid, CPR, and AED) is for non-first responders, and does teach one man CPR and AED using 30:2 compression to breaths. It also doesn't teach using an ambu bag since that is for 2man CPR. And it covers adults, children, and infants Basic Life Support for Health Care Providers teaches both one-man and two man CPR and AED use for adults, infant and children. Goes over the 30:2 rations for all of one man CPR and 2 man adult CPR as well as the 15:2 Infant child 2 man CPR. Also teaches ambu bags

Not really. There is an agreement between all the different first aid/cpr agencies to use the same content. American Heart Association is responsible for CPR criteria that everyone else follows. American Red Cross is responsible for the First Aid side of things. They pretty much work together I am told.