Eagle94-A1

So, I posted the plan for tomorrow that the Scouts came up with, editing out that they are doing the lesson and making it appear that I am doing instead. One of the adults sent me some suggestions. What I find funny is that A) I've been doing and teaching canoeing for over 25 years, and the plan the Scouts posted is 95% what I would do normally, and they think my 5% suggestion makes sense and are going to add it. B) Last time we planned for 2 meetings in the water, something came up and it ended up being 1, and C) Part of the "lecturing" is being done while the canoes are being unloaded by th

I admit, I like six month election cycles. Part of that is I think if you elect a poor leader, you do need to deal with the results. After all in the real world, there are very few recall laws on the books. Part of it is that I've seen school extracurriculars happen in cycles, and they tend to be 6 month cycles. But I really do not like the rule my troop has:you cannot run for reelection except after a 6 month break. Sorry if you can handle the jon for another 6 month term, and your peers vote for you, you should be able to do it.

Funny thing about the second suggestion, they were joking around coming up with what they thought were crazy ideas, then when it went to put down what they were doing, completely ignored their crazy ideas. I had to say they forgot them and they needed to be added to the list to chose some. I could visualize the faces when I told them that.

ACTUALLY, I was reminded that several of the adult faction had not taken swim tests this year. So they are non0-swimmers and can't do boating unless they ride with an adult. Unfortunately more of the Youth led faction are in the same boat, and 1 is Aquatics Supervision certified.

"Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" I had a nice chat with the 2 Scouts in charge of the meeting Monday. They had a good plan, they agreed with one suggest as it "makes sense," and then really liked a second suggestion, and took off with it. So far so good.

@@Stosh True, some parent's don't get it, and don't want to get it. Remember the Scout we had advancement issues with? Only time we really talked to mom was when behavioral issues arose, and then it was our fault for not bringing it to her attention earlier! Um, invited you to parents' meetings to discuss how things operate and how we do things, and you never showed up. The issue I'm discussion is adult Scouters who either been through the program, or have completed training, and still don't act like Cub Scout leaders. Yes, I admit I needed deprogramming, but some folks just are not ge

I'm going to channel @@Kudu and pull some quotes he has on his website: One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction. --Baden-Powell, from the article "Are Our Boys Degenerating?" circa 1918. And from Green Bar Bill The Game of Scouting To an outsider, Sco

The problem IMHO is that adults either A) having never experienced Boy Scouts take the Cub Scout leader model and apply it to working with Boy Scouts and B) Adults who have Boy Scout experience either forget what it's suppose to be about, or need "deprogramming" from Cub Scout leader mode. As stated earlier, some adults do not have the patience to handle the organized chaos of Patrol Method.

I'm going off topic slightly as it does have some relevance. This week has been a long stressful one for me, not only because of what I found out about Monday's meeting, but also everything else going on in my personal and work life. With finding out that things went backwards Monday, I completely forgot about a conversation last weekend until I was talking to oldest. Anyway, I found out that the troop that has had problems over the past few years will be getting a new adult as an ASM, and may possibly take over as SM. The CM of my pack, who is good friends with the SM, and has actually

Thanks for the solid points. I gotta work on language. And also how things are presented. When I talk to the Scouts, I try to leave things as open ended as possible. But I to automatically give orders at times. That does make a difference. The SM's Minute is off limits UNLESS the SM is not there. Part of that is that he is a wealth of knowledge. Part of it is the SM is declining in his abilities, and the SM's Minute is a big deal for him that we do not want to take away. I'm hoping that the SM realizes that the troop is in good hands for him to step down. We had an AT crew, a summer camp,

That or put up a banner saying "Coffee, donuts, and card games for leaders in XYZ room" Seriously though That is the problem. We got leaders acting like den leaders and not Boy Scout leaders. And what the adults do not understand is that there interference is making matters worse. On a different note, SM put me in charge of this meeting coming up. I've already talked to the SPL and one of the older Scouts to run it. I plan on being the SSD and SA guy.

UNDERSTATEMENT! (emphasis, ok maybe yelling at the top of my lungs in agreement with ya ) The patrol method DOES work if adults do not interfere with it. It's messy, organized chaos, and takes patience and time to do it right. BUT in the long run, it is nor only the easiest, but the best way to do things.

I'm going back to my youth days and experiences, so bear with me. PLs are responsible for their patrols. They make sure menus, shopping, duty rosters, etc are done. They delegate different aspects of patrol life, i.e patrol QM, patrol scribe, etc, and help those individuals out as needed. They make sure the members of their patrol are learning, and for the mixed aged patrols, advancing up to First Class. They also represent the patrol at the PLC, and bring down duties and responsibilities that the PLC may assign, i.e. Hawks have cleanup this month, Ravens are doing the ceremonies, etc. In

Unit was not given marching orders, the adults were. Adults were suppose to have specific responsibilities, basically be "patrol counselors" for their assigned patrol which did not include their own son, except for the venture patrol ASM. However my responsibility is to work with the SPL and ASPL when the lead ASM cannot, and to back up the assigned patrol counselors if they are not in attendance, inlcuding my son's patrol, if needed.. The challenge is that there have been NO (emphasis) opportunities for the patrols to work together as a patrol, with the exception of the venture patrol we have

That is what is getting not only me, but also the older Scouts frustrated: we are not improving, but regressing. And as a result, with the exception of one or two activities, the Scouts are not having fun. And I fear we are going to lose them.

I admit I don't know much about Mic-O-Say, nor have I met any members to my knowledge. But some of the actions and attitudes I've read here remind me of some of the OA members and lodges I've ran into over the years. One lodge in particular is coming to my mind about their attitude and actions, which caused the area director to get involved at a conclave! Like any organization, it is comprised of a variety of members. Some are good, and some go overboard.

@@fred johnson Part of the challenge is that the SM is not doing what he is suppose to do. Not trying to blame him, but his age and physical condition are factors involved. Hopefully he will be retiring soon as he has left a gap so to speak. The "Heir Apparent" has challenges too, mostly job related, and I've been asked to help the SPLs out. So I have been directed to help out. The challenge is there IS (emphasis) not only a lack of unified vision, but also when the SM does give all of us ASMs our marching orders (happened twice to date) the very next meeting or two everything changes

'Nope, no adult, an immediate election, i.e. vote of confidence in the SPL. I don't do troop elections. My SPL was always selected by the PL's as to who will support them and they determine how long that SPL stays in that position. Having the troop elect Mr. Popularity instead of a servant leadership PL creates more hassle than if the PL's just pick their own. It was surprising that my PL's picked one of their APL's to be SPL. This APL was doing a fantastic job supporting the PL, the other PL's figured he'd be a good choice to support them too. :)" That's just it, he's "popular" bec

Apparently so. Sad thing is that my tests were pretty much worthless IMHO as I not only got very little sleep, the primary event that caused me to get the test done didn't occur during the test. It occured last nite once again. So I missed a meeting for nothing. I think having an adult replace the unwilling SPL would do more damage than help in the current situation the troop is in. I think it would destroy what little Scout spirit they have. The Scouts are willing to do whatever the SPL asks of them. Maybe I'm as interfereing as the the other adults trying to get him and the others more

Ok I admit I do too much for the troop. I've explained, demonstrated, and have tied to guide the SPL into planning and running the meetings. He only ranfor SPl because he felt obligated to as he was nominated. He really doesn't want the job, and it shows. Since he was out of town this week on the AT, I asked him prior to leaving what he wanted done for the meeting. He said stick with the plan:canoeing. So I asked one of the older Scouts not going to come up with a plan. I even told the SM that this week's meeting was all arranged. I had to miss because of some medical tests yesterday.

Don't I know it. I personally beleive alot of the problems the troop has had is because of adult over involvement. And you know me, I may want them to go to a specific camp, i may promote and advertise a specific camp, but I let the Scouts decide and go where they want to go.

Back when DALE was announced it was going to SCOTUS, I had a CO tell me they would no longer charter a pack. I had until the end of the School year, about 4 months, for the pack to find a new CO as they would no longer be allowed on the property. When BSA changed the youth membership standards, we lost a bunch leaders, donors, and an entire troop went to Trails Life. In fact, it was the troop my son first visited and wanted to join. Our membership number in my district have dropped, and it looks as if we may have to merge with another district because we do not have enough youth members to

I would love to say the Scouts, but it's complicated. 3 years ago, it was suggested to try something new by one of the ASMs. Boys agreed, and we went there and had a good time. When it came around to last year, unanimous decision was to go back to that camp, which we did. This year got interesting. I don't know if one of the ASMs got involved or not, but the SPL put his foot down at the planning meeting with the PLC saying we needed to go back to our home camp this summer, which we did. I know the adults talked about trying to convince the Scouts to go back to the home camp, so I don'

I beg to differ. School and Scouting are two different animals. You cannot compare the two based upon my experiences as an educator and as a Scouter. School is regimented, disciplined, and has a hierarchy to instill knowledge. Scouting, especially old school Scouting as envisioned by BP, is a thing of self-learning. The Scouts do things on their own with SMs to guide and mentor, not supervise. You go to other countries, and Scouts will camp as patrols on their own without any adults present. In the US, that is no longer the case since about 4 years ago. In my 34 years in Scouting, the yo

Question is am I paranoid enough?