Twocubdad

This relates to a minor dust up I'm involved in locally, but for those of you in a position to know, how much does you council underwrite the cost of summer camp? Eamonn mentioned in another thread that camp cost each Scout $160 per week, which is the same we pay here. Does that cover the operating cost of the camp? Does it turn a profit or carry a loss? I'm not talking about capital cost or on-going maintenance or probably even the ranger's salary (which I'm sure far exceeds the income from camp fees) but only the direct cost of operating the camp program for the summer. I would think it would include things like staff salaries, food, program supplies, training and such.

If you locate you camp chair just so, you can secretly keep on hand on the string and raise or lower it to catch the people you want just at the right height.

Come on, Scoutnut, spit it out!

I agree 100% with the need to deal with the problem counselors throught the camp director or advancement committee. That's an adult problem which needs to be dealt with by adults. Where I disagree somewhat is that by denying a Scout a fistful of MBs he obviously did not earn that we are "punishing" him. Punishment would be to deny the unearned badges AND to take away another earned badge for good measure. Who is being harmed by the unearned badges? The Scout! He may not like when he's told he needs to really complete the badges, but in the long run he is the one who benefits. And let's be honest: the boys know when they are getting away with something and when they aren't. (Just to be clear since this is an old thread, understand there is a difference between a counselor making a judgement call as to what's good enough versus approving a MB that is flat-out unearned.) By the way, Bob, I think your observations about summer camp programs are interesting. But can you imagine what Scout camps would be like if all merit badge classes were dropped? Short term, all our guys would spend the first three day hanging out in hammocks or swilling soda at the trading post. But it would be interesting to see what they come up with once that gets boring.

Isn't litney the Penn State mascot? However you end up doing it, Chip, I think the service is a great idea. Installing the new unit "officers" before the Chartered Organization is a great way to reinforce the relationship whether your unit is chartered to a church of a Kiwanis club.

I'm not familiar with the mega camps either. We do have a few camps in the area that attract more boys than others, but they tend to serve larger councils and/or offer something that attract the Scouts to them. Within a two hour drive of here there are seven or eight different council camps, so it is easy for troops to vote with their feet. Ultimately, you have to look at what is best for the program. While we may wax nostalgically at the loss of good ol' Camp Runamok, if the bigger, newer mega camps can offer more quality program choices, better facilities and help keep the costs down, that may be the way of the future. Hopefully the folks making decisions about the future of the camps focus on program delivery more than efficency and money when they decide.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

First of all, don't expect much real help from the district. They may send in a commissioner who will be pleased to offer a great deal of advice but isn't going to get involved in the real work. Ultimately they are going to tell you "it isn't our unit" and leave it to the CO to straighten out. That's not much help if the CO/COR is a big part of the problem. Officially, your troop doesn't have any responsibility to the pack either. But that you refer to them as your "little brother" pack, I suspect you understand that there is a real world relationship between the units. Both boys and leaders probably still have friends or younger brothers/son in the pack and feel some connection to their alma mater. Not to mention that in many ways the health of the troop can be connected to the health of the pack. I'd like to hear your plan for helping the pack. My hunch is you probably have some pretty good ideas. You certainly know more about what is needed that we do.

Non siblings can't share a tent? That is so ridiculous at to not need comment. I think you handled that part of it well. I probably would have pulled out my copy of the Guide to Safe Scouting and asked if she could show me that policy. As to her smoking, I won't fault you for not being more aggressive about it, although some here may. Without dragging out the book, the policy says something along the lines of "Leaders may not allow other to use tobacco in front of Scouts." I take that to mean that I have a responsibility to stop others from smoking, not simply not doing it myself. Personally, I would have said something if she is lighting up in front of my kids. I'm probably not going to go into her campsite to say something about her smoking in front of her kids unless she is particularly aggregious. It would be a judgement call based on the circumstance.

I was going to offer to ship you a box, but the idea of using cedar pet bedding is even better. For a couple or three bucks at WalMart you'll have 10 times more shavings that you'll ever be able to afford the paraffin for.

For mostly political reasons the draft ain't going to happen. Does anyone believe Charles Rangol is really going to vote for it? (Fritz Hollings is enough of a coot that he just might.) I had a coversation this summer with a day camp volunteer who is a reserve officer. He made much the same point you do. His point is that the issue is authorized troop strength -- essentially the number of soldiers Congress is willing to pay for. There are more that enough willing, quality volunteers to fill the current ranks of the military. There is a relatively long wait to get in, depending on the branch you join. Recruiters are able to be selective in the people they recruit. His other point related to training. The WWII idea of infantry grunts going through basic in six weeks then put on a transport to the war is history. Training now takes more like 18 months. We don't have cannon fodder in our military. We have educated, highly trained professional soldiers. Now if you want to talk about compulsory national service, that's another topic.

What do you mean "not paying for the son's expenses"? Was the money general unit money or was it specifically for the CC's son's Scout account?

Keep me on the list. We're thinking about doing Baden-Powell's Boot Camp for our day camp theme next year and it would be fun to have a bunch of (cheap!) lemon squeezers for the camp staff.

This day and age with every little old lady driving a 5-ton SUV, how do you not have people with towing capabilities? Adding a receiver hitch is easy and takes only a few minute. If a couple folks would commit to making themselves available for outings, I'd have the unit pay for the receiver, around $100. The hitch and ball can stay with the trailer.

There's always room for another tarheel. Welcome to the campfire.

And then again, some people are just idiots. Every year we have one or two families who register, pay the dues and NEVER show up for a meeting. Remember you are dealing with 6 year olds. Their parents control the schedule, not the boys. If the parent's aren't interested in Scouting there's not a whole lot you or the boy can do. By all means call the parents. Ask if e-mail is a good way to communicate. Remind them of when you meet (I like to give everyone a calendar of every meeting for the year). Encourage them to attend. If they want to they will. Beyond that the best thing you can do is to provide a good program for the Scouts who show up.

You'll never get away from games, skits and songs as games, skits and songs is such a huge part of Cubbing. Of course the trick is to have NEW games, skits and songs for the Pow Wow. But how about this as an idea. Instead of organizing you Pow Wow around activities, why not organize it around the 12 Cub Scout values: ciizenship, fitness, compassion, etc. Each station includes games, skits, songs and activities that teach that value. Citizenship obviously include flag care but could also some new opening flag ceremonies (I've got a terrific on my son wrote himself as a Bear), ideas for civic-oriented service projects, a list of good local field trips to government buildings and leaders (some are better than others), a song book of patriotic songs and a craft making little American flags out of beads and safety pins. You're essentially taking the same material and organizing it long-ways instead of wide. These are all old Pow Wow standards, but instead of being at different stations, there are all at the one Citizenship station.

Requiring 1:1 Scouts to adults is a very conservative interpretation. We have single-parent Scouts and boys living with grandparents who would never go camping under that rule. How about families with more that one Scout? Did someone here say triplets? On the other hand, as some said it can snowball. We used to have a boy in the pack who lived with a very elderly grandmother. He always camped with his Den Leader and his two sons (boys in one tent, DL in another). But if three are fun, what's wrong with eight. The DL eventually would show up with just about his whole den in tow before the Cub Master suggested otherwise. The application of a little common sense goes a long way.

SWEET TEA?!?!? What kind of pinko commie outfit are you running?

You may have taken it all in good fun, but what about the next boy? Aren't there more positive way to learn about the camp? Looking for a skyhook may have been harmless (or not), but what about the next prank that gets thought up? You and your buddies may be able to control things (or not), but what happens when the next bunch of guys go over the line? This stuff has no place in Scouting. Sorry, but you're not going to find support for it here.

What is the status of our charter? What is the status of our individual registrations? What happened to the registration money? Why are we to "stay away" from any given individual? Who is the Chartered Organization Representative, Committee Chairman and Cubmaster of the unit? How can I join another pack in our area?

Wow! Are you sure you didn't get lost in the woods and wander into the local prison camp? The only thing our troop out-and-out bans are raimen noodles and Poptarts from patrol menus. Beyond that I'd say we strongly discourage electronics and a lot of junk food. Ban is probably too strong a discription because the enforcement is spotty. If a boy wants to listen to music at summer camp, that's not a problem. If he spends the week with his head stuck to a Gameboy it is.

Something here is very wrong. If it were simply a matter of getting the paperwork right or even the timing of getting the charter approved the DE should be bending over backwards to get things registered and running. That they are telling you to keep one or more of the pack organizers away tells me there is much more going on than just paperwork. I would want to get to the bottom of it before investing any more time in this unit. Call the DE and whoever at the church is responsible for the program (should be the Chartered Organization Representative, if they've gotten as far as appointing one). Ask questions and be aware of what you are getting into.

Oooooooo! Flames! Pyrotechnics! I like it.

Thank you for saying so, Bob. We handle the issue of boys attending campouts with someone other than their parent with a form that must be sign by the parent, the person taking responsibility for the boy and the tour leader. It is essentially a permission form for the boy to participate under the supervision of the other adult and an acknowledgement so everyone knows who is responsible for whom. The back of the form has a class I medical form so if something happens to the kid we have a copy of the consent to treat section.

This was the most hotly debated topic at SM/ASM training recently. One guy in my patrol proudly said conferences for Life Scout in his troop could last 12 hours! 12 hours! There have been Supreme Court justices confirmed in less time! Retesting is the big debate. It is quite clear that spending the conference making the boy re-do every requirement in the book is not the point of a conference. But neither do the requirements need to be taboo. You can certainly ask the boys about meeting the requirements. "So, do you feel like you've done a good job meeting these requirements?" "If I keel over, you're ready to jump in and do CPR?" Hopefully the Scout will be confident and comfortable enough to say, "You know, Mr. Ron, I still don't get how to tie a bowline." You may then spend a few minutes tying knots. It's not a pass/fail, but you've created a teaching moment, you've learned something about how the troop is operating and you're building a relationship with the Scout. You wouldn't have done all those things if you had thrown a rope at the kid and ordered him to tie five different knots.