Twocubdad

My understanding from a very reliable source is that only the covers will be in color. Other than the usual updates, the only other significant change is the price -- $5.00. The new books are supposed to be out around October. The biggest distribution problems we've seen is that existing books are in short supply. We couldn't get some of the books we wanted for summer camp.

Gee, sounds like dropping the kid off with Social Services may have been the best thing you could have done for him. I always tell parents that if they don't come for their kids when we call that we'll turn them over to the sheriff's department. I never considered that someone would call my bluff!In five years as a day camp director I sent one kid home for splashing "water" out of the urinals onto the other boys and trying to touch them inappropriately. As a SM, I sent one boy home for shooting younger kids with a slingshot (drawing blood) and another for sucker punching and giving another kid a bloody nose "just for fun." Both on the same camp out -- must have been something in the bug juice. There have been things I've learned after the fact for which I would have sent boys home. Instead they received suspensions. Generally, if you do something which warrants being sent home from a camp out, it'sprobably going to result in a suspension, too. Our troop's behavior guidelines clearly explain what behavior is expected and lists things specifically prohibited. It also explains that we don't punish Scouts -- that's the parent's prerogative. If a boy can't behave like a Scout, they don't get to participate in Scout activities. That may be for the rest of the weekend, a month or more, or on a permanent basis. The guys generally know that the consequencesstart with a stern lecture and proceed through a formal, sit-down conference (usually with your parent), a hearing with the troop committee, probation, varying length of suspension and ultimately expulsion. We don't have fixed consequences for anything. Some nearby troops have very specific consequences which resemblefederal sentencing guidelines. We try to always fit the punishment to the crime and to take the circumstances and the boy into account. As a result, some of the "sentences" can be convoluted -- suspension from all troop activities, followed by suspension from camp outs, followed by probation, etc. Yes, we put it all in a letter to the Scout. In those cases are usually the result of behavior which has put the Scout or other in harm's way. Our purpose in trying to ease the boy back into the troop is to give us the opportunity to observe him and make sure the dangerous behaviorisn't repeated.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

My older son read the article first and brought it to my attention, which, in-and-of itself, was nice. I liked the article. I thought it was remarkably candid, especially considering the "I'll-talk-about-what-I-want-regardless-of-the-question-asked" responses you usually get from CEOs and politicians. I was particularly pleased regarding his comments relating to our need to promote the character building and leadership aspects of Scouting to the public. A big AMEN from this corner. BSA spends too much time on the defensive. Locally, all our external communications make us look like Scouting is a program exclusively for underprivileged boys. We need to be selling the positive attributes of the program like leadership and character development.

On the Boy Scout side, we have a handout which is about 10 pages long and gets updated and adapted from year to year. It includes much of the basics, summer camp info and a copy of our troop behavior expectation policy. In addition, the first month after the new Scouts cross over is BSA 101 for both the boys and their parents. While the Scouts are working on basic skills with the new boys, we hold orientation meetings with the parents. The parents have their own breakout while the Scouts are in their instruction time. The four sessions generally cover: Week 1, Administration -- paperwork, apps, medical forms, calendars, summer camp sign ups dues, etc. Run by the membership chairman and treasurer. Week 2, Program basics -- mission, aims and methods. I do this on myself. Week 3, Advancement -- First year/First Class, procedures, expectations, etc. Run by our Advancement chairman. Week 4, Camping -- Schedule, equipment, what to buy, what not to buy. We usually have the owner of the local outdoor (a retired SM) shop do a presentation. We really encourage both parents to attend as we feel like the info we present is important even for the parent who isn't really involved in Scouting. That rarely works. I don't know that we get every family represented. This does NOT replace leader training. The new parents who are will be troop leaders are still expected to take the appropriate leader training. We start working with the Webelos II dens in the fall and encourage the parents to start taking BSA training before crossover.

We're in the no electronics camp with Doug and Acco. Camp is no place for that. You want to play video games and TM your girl friend all week? Stay home. And no homesick kid ever feels better after talking to his mom. We do have an exemption for program-related stuff like GPS or digital camera for the historian. Last year we let the camel's nose under the tent by allowing boys to listen to their C3PO player (yeah, whatever) at night, in their tents. Bad idea. This year everyone shows up with their I-phone music/game boy/microwave oven combo. I'm not getting in the business of policing that. Then there's the constant "he stole/broke/won't let me use my gizmo." Nope, I'm not fighting that battle either. So we're back to a No Electronic policy. Yet we still have scofflaws. I'm making my rounds one night this year and see the faint blue glow of a LCD screen from one of the tents. Turns out one of my older guys is sending highly inappropriate messages to his girl friend. Which opens another can of worms. Nothing is just a cell phone anymore. Do you guys really want to be in the business of monitoring Internet access at camp? Another issue we have is the adult use of electronics. For whatever reason, this was a big problem this year. One guy probably spent 8 hours a day on the lap top. He came to camp why? It sure wasn't to help me. We're close enough to home that we can tag-team leaders (I and one other guy are there the full week, but we have other dads rotate through for bench strength). Seemed like the first thing the replacement dads did was wave their cell phone around and yell, "who want to call home." We're going to nip that in the bud next year with a better adult orientation/training session. I understand that these days many adults need to check in with the office occasionally, but it needs to be limited and discretely done away from the Scouts. As far at the issue of email reports home, this year was the first we had the ability to do that. Our camp now manages all merit badge classes and sign ups on line, so we had Internet access for the first time. I think I sent email reports with photos Tues, Wed and Thurs which our troop webmaster forwarded to all the parents. I don't know that it was so much an anxiety thing as it was just fun to know the Scouts were enjoying their week at camp. The other non-scout camp my boys go to posts slide shows every couple of days. We enjoy watching those. It's just nice to see what we're getting for our money.

I hope this late reply won't be considered resuscitating a dead horse, but I found this thread while researching this precise subject. I am currently living this nightmare. I won't bore you with a recitation of our council's Eagle project review process as it is largely an amalgam of all the worst-case processes described above. I could (and have) written long descriptions of the problems with our process, but there are basically three: First, the expectations for the proposal are entirely out of line for the abilities of a 14-to-17-year-old boy. One of our ASMs described a recent Eagle proposal as worthy of a Six Sigma green belt. From the proposals I've helped with, a "good one" in the council's view is generally 50+ pages and requires anywhere from 30 to 50 hours to produce. Included in that is probably 10 to 15 hours of adult coaching/editing/ghost writing. In addition to a step-by-step descriptions ("using carpenter's glue and 8d galvanized nails, attach the sides of the birdhouse to the back...."), Scouts are expected to include photos, site maps, detailed drawings, detailed material lists, budgets, schedules including work days, number of volunteers needed and total manhours; yadda, yadda, yadda. One of our Scouts had his project denied because he didn't include the dimensions of a picnic table he was to build. WHO CARES! It's a picnic table! In terms of the leadership and benefits of the project does the size of the table matter? And please understand that I make a clear distinction between the proposal and the project. It's the proposals which are crazy, not the projects. I'm all for Scouts who take on challenging projects which stretch their ability. In that regard, I would rate many of the projects which our council approves as marginal at best. Secondly, the bureaucratic baloney the boys are required to navigate turns into a big "gottcha" game. In another post it was mentioned that a Scout was asked how pencils would be sharpened. Our guys haven't asked that, but I'm sure only because they haven't thought of it. A big frustration is that the board won't review projects at all if all the bureaucratic hurdles haven't been met. We had one kicked back because a locally required form wasn't attached. A month later, when the boy resubmitted the proposal with the form, it was rejected for lack of scope. So now we've wasted two months.... Third, many of the local committee's policies and requirements are above and beyond what is required by BSA and in some cases in outright contradiction to BSA policy. Project are required to be of at least 100 manhours where the BSA guidelines clearly state that there is no minimum time requirement for a project, only that the project be of sufficient scope for the Scout to demonstrate his leadership ability. The use of power tools are prohibited (a power tool being anything with a motor) in contradiction to the Guide to Safe Scouting which clearly allows the use of power tools. To my mind, the whole approval process is an added requirement. So, how does one go about changing this? The friendly cup of coffee hasn't worked (I tried). The chairman was more than happy to "explain to me" the process, but wasn't interested in sitting down for a more substantive conversation. Do we just start appealing all denials to national? Someone mentioned an audit/review process. Is that national or was that just a local thing? Bob White -- one thing which may help would be to have a reference for your list of six things the district/council SHOULD be looking for. Is that published somewhere? I've really gone to school on this the past year, taking the local Eagle project courses and reading all the locally-available literature, including the Advancement Policies and Procedures. But I know that sometimes BSA publishes more details in materials for more advanced training courses which aren't otherwise easily available. Any help is appreciated. As you may tell, this is really frustrating me. It isn't like we can go out of council on this. We're stuck with this process and there seem to been no checks and counter balances.

No intent to disparage or ridicule you whatsoever. But from the limited info you posted, it sure sounded to some of us with day camp experience that you were being fed to the wolves (tigers, bears and Webelos, too, I suppose.) That you have the former camp director helping is a major assest and it sounds like they are helping you with the administrative stuff. Great! As to your original question about programming, the idea of contacting the local SCA is a good one. Our Webelos camp several years used a knights theme and had those guys come out run a fencing station. I think we did a camp-wide search for the Holy Grail in which the dens were given clues to try and find what ever gizmo the grail was. Costumes were good too. Lots of aluminum foil went into creating suits of armor. Generally speaking though, don't get overwhelmed with the theme. Most of what you are going to do remains the same regardless of theme. Maybe the archery range becomes the "Long Bow Tournament" but it's still archery. We always joked that regardless of the theme of the camp, if we ever dropped archery, BBs, canoeing or fishing that we would all be skinned.

I would suggest a station including a rack, iron maiden and a variety of other Middle Ages torture devices. I bet that by the end of camp you will be strapping your Field Director to them! You have got to get some experienced help! What happened to the old camp director? Or is this a first year camp? (And if it is, four weeks at three sites is an unbelievable first bite.) Where are your camps held? If they aren't on BSA property, you have a tremendous amount of work in front of you. For example, you have to have a letter from a local hospital or urgent care facility stating that they will accept patients from your camp; you have to have a similar letter from the local fire department; you have to have the drinking water at the facility tested or documentation showing that it is from a municipal source. All this relates to the accredidation process and can be found in the Camp Standards which your Field Director should have given you months ago. Actually, you and your Field Director should have used the Camp Standards form to conduct pre-inspections at all three sites weeks ago. I fear for you. I was a camp director for five years, have served on the faculty at camp school and now do day camp inspections for our council. If you like, please send me a private message and I'll be glad to help however I may.

I;ve had excellent result with Advantage Emblem (www.AdvantageEmblem.com). Great service, free design work, reasonable prices. I've used them for both the troop and district stuff. Patches, hats, shirts, neckers, etc. Ask for Jenni. She's our sales rep and is terrific.

Let me address this from a point of view other than money. If you don't believe the district/council events are up to snuff or are too expensive, don't go. If they don't meet the needs of your unit, you feel you can do a better job within your unit or you feel you have good program without them, stay the heck home. For a long time I thought I had to be at every Roundtable, every district committee meeting, every event to "support the program." No. It is the responsibility of the district/council to support the unit, not the other way around. If your pack has a good outdoor program without attending district events, you should be congratulated. If anyone gives you lip about it, ask them what the purpose of the district program is. Our unit recently chose not to participate in district event because, 1) it has become a hassle and we really don't care to participate, and 2) we replaced it with another outing that our boys and leaders are really excited about. I caught it from four directions at the last Roundtable for "not supporting" the event. That's not my job. I'm here to provide a good program to the 40 guys in my unit. That said, I will point out that I believe there is a difference between program and finance. I do believe we have a responsibility to support the Council financially. The big difference there is that my FOS contribution is an individual matter. How much or if I contribute is my own decision. If the FOS campaigns were directed at unit treasuries, that would be a different issue.

Baloney ... or Bologna ... or maybe baloney was right after all. Plenty of chow for us omnivores at the IST dining hall. I ate bangers every morning until I figured out that was what was giving me the runs. So I ate bacon, which is more what we would call ham or Canadian bacon. Tuna, chicken or shrimp salad for lunch everyday. Dinner always included at least two meat selections. Junior, sitting here next to me, tells me he also had bangers every morning until he, too, figured out that they were giving him the trots too. By the way, no on wants to eat burgers in the UK. Yuk! Ground beef just isn't the same there. I had a $40 burger at the Hilton at Gatwick and could barely choke it down. The fire ban is correct. But no one could look at the site and even consider striking a match. All the sites were essentially in hay fields. Even if fires had been permitted, fuel would have been an issue. The wooded areas were few and far between and I really didn't see the down wood around like you see in the woods here. Don't believe everything you read.

OGE and some of the old timers may remeber a professional who used to post here, Dave something, I think. One of his hobbies was sewing and I think he developed a set of requirements and even an outline of a MB book. I think I remember that he had submitted it to national for consideration. So it's out there.

How much rope do you give your Scouts to lead instructional time during troop meetings? How far do you let them go before you pull the plug? Or do you ever pull the plug? How much do you let it affect the instruction the younger boys are receiving? Our situation: We've been in serious rebuild mode for two years. For the past year we've been running troop programs by the book -- PLC does the planning, we use the 7-part meeting plan, Scouts execute the plan. Last year the results were spotty at best. In the first place, all the monthly themes were a bit too advanced. Too much Wilderness Survival and Shotgun Shooting and not enough First Aid, Pioneering and other basic skills. Secondly, the boy's presentation skills were very rough. Everything ended up sounding like someone reading a school essay. Not near enough hands-on, active instruction. We tried to address this at JLT this summer. We spent a lot of time working on presentation skills. We also spent a lot of time discussing activities and how to make programs interesting. The themes the Scout selected were more basic. Unfortunatly, the results thus far have not been good. This month's theme is cooking. It hasn't helped that for two of the four weeks the guys responsible for the program bailed -- "surprise" mid-term exams, ect. (The SPL tapdanced through one week, I filled in another.) When they have done a program it's been more of a glorified snack time than any sort of real instruction. The highlight has been two second-year guys cooking French toast. They actually did a good job of breaking down the skills and teaching. I feel we set rather clear expectations of what we were looking for, however I will admit our new SPL doesn't really have the hang of staying on top of the program guys and making sure they are ready. As always, the issue is the fine line between "Scout led" and "Scout led into the ground." Where and how do you draw that line?

I'm on our district committee and the awards sub-committee. We base DAM selections strictly on service at/to the district level. Consequently this means the receipients are always day camp people, commissioners or OA chapter folks. There seems to be a bias against M&M (money and membership) volunteers on the district committee, but truthfully those folks seem to rotate off before the meet the tenure requirement. Service at the unit level -- Cubmasters, Scoutmaster, Den Leaders, etc. -- doesn't count. Neither does service at the Council level. Our district camping chairman's nomination was declined because those things he had done which were most noteworthy were for th Council camping committee. That this guy was a member of the Council camping committee because he was our DISTRICT REPRESENTATIVE to the Council made no difference. Although I'm on the selection committee, I have a standing objection to the criteria we use. In my opinion, the function of the district is unit service. Consequently, the highest form of service to the district is running a really great unit program. We overlook a lot of great volunteers who do terrific work in our district simply because they focus on their unit, not district events. It is curious to me that at the Council level, Silver Beaver awards are routinely awarded to long-term volunteers who provide exemplary service only at the unit level. We have Silver Beaver recipients who have never earned the DAM. As to the perpetual problem of avoiding the good ol' boy network, our committee only considers individuals for awards based on written nominations. We may know of a volunteer who is really deserving of recognition, but if no one thought enough of them to nominate them, we, as a committee, won't make the award out of the blue. This keeps the committee from getting together and giving the awards to our buddies. We do, however, do a little politicking during the nomination process to encourage nominations of deserving folks. The down side of this is that there are years where the nominations are pretty sparse. Part of the problem is that the people who are involved and get the nomination forms are the ones who should be nominated. We've been trying to get the nomination forms out to the second-tier volunteers and parents to make them aware that they need to nominate the leaders in their units.

Yes, we done all that. The best thing we've done is to assigne the dad to other jobs. That tends to work for awhile. Eventually the father and son drift back together. There are some weird family dynamics going on that are above my GS level. The dad seems to think he as to solve all the problems because if the son goes home and tells his mom what "really" happens on campouts, all heck is going to break loose. The dad thinks he's doing the right thing by directing the son to me. It's taken me awhile to figure out that I just have to be the bad guy and stand there admist all the boy's tears and long looks from the dad and say, "No, you cant tent with your dad, go back to your patrol." I have no interest in trying to fix family problems, but I really struggle to keep it from interferring with the patrol method. The thing that works best is assigning the dad a job where he is physically away from his son's patrol. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have to add that over the past 6-9 months, the boy seems to be outgrowing a lot of his issues. Summer camp last year was the last time we had a big problem. Also, in the dad's defense, he really doesn't go looking to meddle and stays back if the son doesn't have problems. So there is hope that time will cure all this.

A couple other active threads on Scout behavior reference requiring parents to attend campouts with their sons. How is this working for most of you? I have one ASM who hasn't quite found time for training over the past three years who attends every campout with his son. The boy has some combination of ADHD/Aspergers/bipolar. The dad's primary function is to walk in front of the boy picking up sticks and stones which may be in his way. He's constantly jumping in solving problems for his son. Rules never seem to apply to this kid. There is always some reason he shouldn't have to eat with his patrol, participate in the activities, or sleep with his tent mate. While the dad always makes the son ask me to be exempted from the rules, but the dad is usually standing over his shoulder with a long look on his face. Several times Scouts in his patrol have mentioned to me at SM conferences that this dad's meddling is one of the things they don't like about their patrol. On the other hand, we have another Scout with similar behaviors. He's gotten in trouble from time to time and the troop committee and I have debated requiring that the father attend campouts with the son. Ultimately, we decided that the father is more trouble than the Scout and we would rather deal with the Scout alone than to put up with the father's attitude. The dad seems to have a rather thinly veiled contempt for the Scout program generally and a rather openly hostile opinion of me in particular. (He's not exactly on my Christmas list either.) It's rather clear that the dad would prefer the boy not be in Scout, but the mom seems to call the shots in the family. Do any of you require parents to supervise their Scouts? How do you do this without destroying the patrol method? Do the parents do more that just sit in camp in case of emergency?(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Oh, that's nothing. The one that really piXXXXX -- er, makes me very angry, is the dad that brags about all the great places he and his wife are going while I have his kids at summer camp. All but sits in the back of the Scout hut going through Club Med brochures. And this guy was my former ASSISTANT den leader who decided he "had done enough" when his boys crossed over. Grrrrrrr..... I wonder what Club Med brochures taste like?

I've been our district day camp director for five years. Under the previous administration and during my first year at camp we had a separate Webelos camp. It ran Wed-Sat with Friday night being a campout. With overnighters being discouranged then outright prohibited at day camps, we lost that advantage. My second year we combined the two camps and just ran one week. Staff time was the biggest factor. The adminstrative staff and area directors were being asked to take two weeks for camp. That was just too much. Even with Webelos and Cubs in the same camp, we don't do a whole lot differently between the dens. The Webelos just tend to go a little higher, longer and faster than the cubs. Fortunately, the Council runs a Webelos resident camp later in the summer, so that takes some of the pressure of us to do Webelos-specific things. They have ample opportunity for that at resident camp.

C-Bolt, a few things for you to think about: What was the difference between your Jambo troop and your regular troop besides the leaders? Did the Scouts behave or perform any differently? My observation is Jamboree, OA and high adventure groups tend to attract not only the top-line leaders, but the top-line Scouts, too. Could it be that because the Scouts in your Jamboree troop had their act together, there wasn't much to yell about? Is there a pattern to the yelling and/or nagging? What are the Scouts doing when the yelling/nagging is taking place? I am a SM and tend to yell more than I like. But I tend to yell when things aren't going well. Generally speaking (and not always, I'm not perfect) if I'm yelling about something it's because I was ignored when I 1)hinted around about what needed to be done, 2) suggested at what needed to be done, and 3) out-and-out told someone to do it. I will admit to getting cranky when ignored. I also tend to yell more on Sunday mornings than I do on Saturday mornings. On Saturdays if the Scouts want to goof off, have breakfast late and not get things squared away, then the Scouts tend to suffer the consequences by missing or shortening whatever activities were planned. On Sunday mornings the same behavior tends to be on my dime. I'm the one who hears about it when we are late returning home. As an Eagle Scout and troop leader, how and what can you change to make things better in the troop? What is the easiest way to get the leaders to shut up about uniforms? You've mentioned that the Scouts want to have fun, but the adults want to be serious all the time. I get this from some of the Scouts in my troop. My first question is how do you and the other Scouts in your troop define "fun"? If fun is hanging out with the guys, talking game and styling for your friends, then why not just go to the mall? There are girls at the mall, the food's better there, and you can dress however you like. The fun of Scouting is participating in activities like camping, hiking, climbing, shooting, mountain biking and canoe trips. If the guys in your troop don't consider those things fun, they really should find an organization that better meets their needs. As an Eagle Scout, you know that these activities take work, practice, planning and effort. I talk to the Scouts in the troop I serve about having a "seriousness of purpose." This doesn't mean we run around with a scowl on our faces memorizing passages from the Citizenship merit badge books. It simply means we try to stay focued on those things we as Scouts do. The payoff -- the fun -- comes from being able to participate in those fun activities. There is a time and place for everything. We try to include time for the guys to just goof off and be themselves with their friends. But if the Scouts are goofing off when they are supposed to be packing up on Sunday morning or maybe while another Scout -- or worse yet, ME -- is talking to the group, we going to have a problem.

Okay, a couple points of clarification. Since it wasn't really the point of the thread, I didn't go into all the specifics of reviewing projects. In our council, completed projects are submitted with the Eagle app. After the app is verified by the registrar, it is assigned to a trained district rep (and I'm one) who checks out the project and represents the district advancement committee on the Eagle board of review. If I were given Richmond's son's packet and the facts of his project were as I understand them, I would refer the project back to the advancement committee. It would all be resolved one way or another prior to the BoR. I may have given the impression that this would all have been dumped on the Scout at his Eagle board. No. What likely would happen would be that the Scout would be asked to find something else he could do for the band or school which would expand the overall scope of the project. It wouldn't necessarily have to involve shelves in the band room. Some solution would be found. We wouldn't just tell the Scout, "sorry, this doesn't cut it." All that is from my perspective as a district advancement guy. As a parent, I think John's advice is good. You need to initiate the conversation with the advancement committee. But I wouldn't go in to the conversation trying to sell the idea that the project should be accepted because the band director is okay with it. My point is that through no fault of your son, the scope of his project has fallen below what is acceptable. You -- excuse me, your son -- needs to be asking the advancement chairman what he can be doing to make it right.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Let me make sure I understand. The approved project was to build, from scratch, two shelves and expand a third. Part of the project was completed by moving an existing cabinet from the Scout building. At that point the band director decided she didn't need/want the rest of the shelving after all. You son has about 10 hours into the project. Is that his time personally or is that 10 manhours total? Does that include his time spend preparing the proposal? In our council that would not cut it. This sounds to me like a significant change in scope for the project. Our advancement committee requires that any change in scope of a project be resubmitted. Yes, you have to stop, document the changes and have them approved. Did your son's proposal include an estimate of how long it would take? Was it significantly more than 10 hours? If I've got my facts right, the original project was to build two and expand one shelf. He relocated one. That is a significant change. The essence of the Eagle project is leadership, not construction. I can't see that moving and reinstalling a cabinet would take a whole lot of time. Manhours is a fairly reliable quantitative (but not qualitative) measure of leadership. You can manage a few people for a long time or a lot of people for a short time. Either one requires the planning, communication and organization skills we are asking the Scout to demonstrate. Our council has a guideline that proposed Eagle projects be in excess of 100 manhours. A project significantly short of that, or one where the committee feels the Scout has over estimated the time, will be rejected. If a completed project comes up short of 100 hours, that's okay, as long as the project is completed as planned. Had your son built all the shelves he had proposed but just completed them faster than anticipated, he would be okay. Deleting a significant part of the project is not. That the band director is satisfied with the project is immaterial. I'm sorry to be the party-pooper, but if I were the district rep on your son's Eagle Board, I would not approve the project.

How come a missing kid is in the BSA, on a trip, and it's fodder for CNN? Visuals. Two parents crying in the lobby of the police station while a detective works the phone won't make the local cable channel. This story had great views of the mountains, 100+ people running around in the woods, scent dogs, helicopters overhead. The only thing that would have made it any better would have been if it were located in a top 5 market. I'll also say that kids like this scare the dickens out of me, too. We're not setup to provide 24/7 direct-eye-contact supervision. This ain't kindergarten -- we don't walk single file with everyone holding hands. Part of the program is for the boys to be given a level of autonomy. If a boy can't be trusted to manage himself as a basic level, he needs to be in another troop. I can't be every where/ see everything even if I wanted to . Last campout we had a new guy who wanted to test the theory that tents are flammable. He sat in his tent lighting matches until his tent mate took them away and threw them out in rain. (Note: Buddy system at work!) As I told his parents, I we're not set up to handle that level of stupid. Of course the problem is that you can't know which Scout is going to try to burn down the tent or hitch-hike home. (I can make a good guess. Probably even rank them in order of likelihood.) But that's where the parents come in. Unfortunately how many of them don't understand the program, or worse yet, are looking for "a weekend off"

Boy, I wish I could get up to the level of having these problems. When I stepped in, the troop had almost no troop program. The PLC never met, there was no planned troop meeting programs, no JLT in years and probably one-in-three campouts cancelled due to lack of adult leadership. Needless to say, it's been a long slow rebuilding process. I've been SM for about 18 months (I registered here as "Twocubdad" a LONG time ago) and have been through one planning cycle. In retrospect I can see that the boys may have had too much lattitude in planning the program. The monthly themes this year have been really fun (mountain biking, shotgun shooting, wilderness survival, etc.) but those "gravy" themes have been at the cost of a lot of basic Scout skills. Consequently, I've taken a bit heavier hand in planning the next couple upcoming campouts. Fortunately, at the planning conference in August, April and May were left a little fuzzy. So I've not had to change any plans, just guide the planning a little more. Next August I'll start with a SPL who has watched the process for a year (and hopefully completed NYLT), so I'll be able to work with him in advance to structure the annual plan a little more. I guess the Scoutmaster has a learning curve, too. One thing that has been both facinating and frustrating is the boys' resistance to doing things "by the book." They want to re-invent the wheel at every turn. Troop meeting plan worksheets are viewed as just one more homework assignment. I can't tell you how many times I've suggested a Scout look through the Program Features book for ideas only to have him glance through it for a few seconds and then set it aside. I'm not sure how to crack that nut. Building the troop has been like eating an elephant, one bite at a time. Everytime I ask the PLC to do something, it the first time they've done it. We're just starting to get the hang of planning and running troop meetings -- After almost 8 months, we had enough successes that the boys are beginning to see if they plan things properly, the troop meetings work. (This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

2Eagle -- can I print your post and put it on our Scout Hut wall? Spot on. It's all about setting priorities and making choices.

Well it certainly wasn't hard to come up with a Scoutmasters' Minute for tonight's meeting. With a buddy, he would have been home in his jammies Sunday night. According to the Scout's dad on TV tonight, he was homesick and was trying to walk to the road where he could hitch-hike home. He was in camp because he wanted to sleep in instead of going on the hike. His mother is also quoted in the paper that he is on Ritalin for ADD, but doesn't like to take the medication. It sure doesn't take much to read between the lines. How many of us have guys like that in our troops? But consider this quote from an AP story: "Adults involved in the Boy Scouts are taught to follow 'Two Deep Leadership' which meandates that at least two adults be present for all camps, trips and outdoor activities. The organization prohibits one-on-one situations between a scout and an adult. "But John Akerman, scout executive with the Raleigh-Durham area Occoneechee Council said it would make sense to leave one adult behind with one scout if the other scouts are with other adults on an activity." That is: a) a local policy adaptation b) a new change in the Guide to Safe Scouting c) just one of those things those dang scout executives say, or d) the dumbest thing you've ever heard