Twocubdad

Yes, 100 hours. And it is posted on the council web site and enforced. If, in the review committee's estimation, a Scout's estimate of 100 hours seems padded, they will reject it anyway.

We antelope have learned to occupy ourselves with productive persuits (i.e. grazing) while waiting for the bears and buffalo, so sometimes we're busy when you finally get around to us.... I used to be an Antelope, a good 'ol Antelope too! But now I've finished 'Loping I dont know what to do. I'm growin' old and feeble and I can 'Lope no more So I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

Our fee this time is tentatively $1350. I think it was $1200 in '05. Trying to hold cost down, the council has dropped the usual side trip would have added $5-600 to the costs. I can't imagine that any council looks at jambo as a fundraiser, but they sure don't mind if the contingent leave money on the table. Last time out the amount left over in our council raised some eyebrows. It's SOP in most, and I suppose all, councils to require any event -- jambo, camporees, day camps -- to budget a contingency fee which, if left unspent, ultimately goes to the council. Obviously, there is a need to make sure events don't lose money (I don't think we qualify for bailout money -- at least not yet) and the balance covers soft or overhead costs attributed to the events. Having run a number of events like this (mainly day camp), I think it is important that the vounteers take care that events create neither a deficit or a windfall.

Are the parents getting food for themselves or for their Scouts? Not that it really makes much difference. We used to have over-indulgent parents who would bring special food for their kid, but the menu was what the menu was. Food was included in the cost of the campout, so if you didn't want to eat that was your decision. I don't recall that we let the Cubs select the menu. The pack always provided the food and cooked as a group. It was not uncommon for us to have 100-150 people on a campout, so the menu was generally built around our ability to feed that number of people cooking in the woods. Even with those numbers, we still had a fairly sophisticated menu. One dad had a 3x4-foot piece of steel cut we used as a griddle and could cook pancakes for 100 people in 20 minutes. We mixed batter in a 5-gallon bucket with a cordless drill and paint paddle. One year all the boys made hobo dinners and we used the same ingredients to make a really nice beef stew for the adults. We always included 4-5 Dutch oven cobblers for dessert later around the campfire. For breakfast once we had an "oatmeal bar" with maybe 12 different toppings -- chocolate chips, fruit, different jams, syrup, brown sugar, etc. That was fun because most of the boys initially turned up their noses at the oatmeal until they tasted it. None of them had ever had real, cooked oatmeal. They thought we were giving them the instant, microwave gruel they were used to. They went nuts when they tried the real deal. The point is that even though we had a bunch of people to feed, we tried to set the bar pretty high and set a good example for the Scouts. Now, 6-8 years later, the Boy Scouts still talk about some of the meals we had as Cubs. I wish I could say the Boy Scouts have taken the lead and now cook great campout meals, but every now and again we see a flash of effort. You never know when a seed will sprout.

What's the Scoutmaster's opinion of all this? While this is really a committee problem, I would think the SM's opinion would carry great weight with both the COR and CC. If I were the COR I would certainly pay attention if the SM were of the opinion that a change in the CC was needed. And if I were CC and the SM suggested to me that it is time to move on, I would likely take the advice. I think you are going about this pretty well. Give the CC a while to smoke it over then have the COR or SM bring it up with her again. This is like any other relationship. You've got to go about it the right way. If people feel like their being pushed out, they will push back. Use the best resources (people) you have to make your best case with the CC. Of course, if the COR, SM and CC disagree with you, then you're barking up the wrong tree all together.

I suppose the real answer here is that this is all stuff you will learn at camp school. I wouldn't sweat the details too much until you get trained and have a better understanding of the program and your job responsibilities. I do, however, think you need to have a heart-to-heart with your DE regarding your concerns about the camp program and camp director. If your little voice is telling you to tread lightly, you need to listen. Unfortunately, there are a lot of folks out there -- in BSA and out -- who aren't particularly interested in change. They've found their comfort zone and are happy where they are. If your DE is worth his or her salt, he or she will understand that enthusiasm is the #1 qualification for running day camp. It may well be that the DE sees the same problems you do and is looking for someone with your enthusiasm to shake things up. But if that's not the case, you need to understand the politics and where the thorns are. Whatever the situation, it sounds to me like you will be a great addition to the day camp. Program director is by far the best job to have. You get to do all the fun stuff and let the camp director handle all the administrative headaches. And camp school is a blast! Have fun!

Found it. This is from the Cub Scout Day Camp Administrative Guide, page 29. You'll get a copy of this in you registration materials for camp school Day Camp Director The day camp director is the volunteer or professional on site conducting the Cub Scout day camp. The day camp director shall be a man or woman 21 years of age or older of well-known good character and ability. In additional to being certified at national Camping School for administration or management, the day camp director shall: Be responsible to the day camp administrator Supervise the personnel and operating details of the day camp Recurit, interview and train day camp personnel Conduct, in cooperation with the program director, a camp staff training course befor the opening of camp to familiarize the staff with the day camp program See that standards for leadership, program activities and health and safety are maintained Be a freelance person at the day camp Always have a "Plan B" Possess and display a maximum of the day camp director qualities shown on page 31 Evaluate Program Director The program director is the volunteer or professional on site responsible for the Cub Scout day camp program. They plan the program with the help of the area directors or session directors. The program director shall be a man or woman 21 years of age or older of well-known good character and ability. In addition to being currently certified at National Camping School, day camp program or the program director shall: Be responsible to the camp director Promote day camp attendance at roundtables, pack meetings and activities Help unit leaders plan and carry out a successful day camp through the use of personal coaching, training and program aides Help the camp director conduct a camp staff training activity Train and supervise a group of program aides to help unit leaders Evaluate

I'll try to dig out the official job description for you. I teach day camp administration at National Camp School and just received this year's materials. With the holidys, it may take me a while to get in to it all. At camp school you will be cross trained to serve as either camp director or program director -- it's the same training and certification for both positions. Generally, the CD is concerned with administrative stuff and the PD, obviously, handles the program stuff. Because both of you are cross-trained, that means that you have the ability to craft a division of labor between the two of you that suits your abilities and interests. Although I was officially camp director, I always enjoyed developing the theme and activities so I was really more functionally the program director. The important thing is that you work with your other director to make sure things run well.

It's been suggested and I would agree that the main problem is the leader is unable to identify the animals or plants himself. I'm pretty handy at plant identification, having grown up next door to a lady with an incredible wild flower garden. "Move your fat foot! You're stepping on my Trillium" was a good way of learning what a Trillium looks like. A good friend of mine always teaches this section at outdoor leader training and is very good at it. He's a real mountain man and not only identifies the plants and animal signs, but talks about the various folk uses of each. He really makes it interesting -- I could spend days in the woods. But if you haven't grown up with it, or spent a lot of time in the woods learning it, I don't think many folks are going to learn it well enough in the hour-long training. But there's nothing wrong with learning this stuff along with the Scouts. There are a number of really good guide books available. There's nothing wrong with looking up plants and animals in the books along with the Scout. I recommend guidebooks which are very specfic to your geographic area. It's frustrating to spend 10 minutes deciding which tree you're looking at only to read further and learn that what you think you've identified is only found in the Mongolian Stepps. I would also advise not to make it more difficult than it needs to be. There are at least 15 or 16 common varieties of oak trees in our area. "Red oak" or "white oak" is close enough for me. Likewise, "hawk" is okay, too. I don't need the model number. I also like the square-foot-nature game, too. I done this before in the lawn in front of the Scout hut. It is amazing how many different plants and animals you can find in a 12x12 block if you know what to look for.

Don't you just love Gold Bond? When I was a kid my grandfather used to drench himself in the stuff. I had forgotten about it until a few years ago. Would not made it through a couple weeks of 100-degree-plus Webelos camp without it. Both boys and I won't go out without it. Word of warning: If you run out of the body powder, DO NOT substitute the foot powder for use on the giblets! WOW You'll only make that mistake once.

Your post isn't clear whether or not the boy who reported the incident was the victim or just a witness. If he isn't the victim, I would confirm the incident with the boy who was the target of the bullying. His take on things may temper my response. On the other hand, if the story you have can be taken at face value, I would respond quickly and decisively. You've already received some good advice on how to proceed. But I would encourage you to take a hard line with this type of behavior. It can get out of hand easily. Don't fall into the trap of thinking you have to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt before you can act. Been there, done that, got the patch. If you believe you have a resonable understanding of what took place, go with that. Boys can be experts at playing the "reasonable doubt" angle. Don't play that game. This isn't a court of law and it isn't the public schools. You need to do what you think is best for the troop.

Your post isn't clear whether or not the boy who reported the incident was the victim or just a witness. If he isn't the victim, I would confirm the incident with the boy who was the target of the bullying. His take on things may temper my response. On the other hand, if the story you have can be taken at face value, I would respond quickly and decisively. You've already received some good advice on how to proceed. But I would encourage you to take a hard line with this type of behavior. It can get out of hand easily. Don't fall into the trap of thinking you have to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt before you can act. Been there, done that, got the patch. If you believe you have a resonable understanding of what took place, go with that. Boys can be experts at playing the "reasonable doubt" angle. Don't play that game. This isn't a court of law and it isn't the public schools. You need to do what you think is best for the troop.

My old troop was a microcosim of what was happening nationally. We had 13 Eagles in '73 including six at one Court of Honor. I don't think there were any the following year and maybe only one in '75. In addition to the new requirements which took effect in '74, our troop went to National Jamboree in '73 and there was quite a bit of competition among the guys in the troop to go to jambo as an Eagle. As to the statistics, in any of your research have you run across anything on retention? I'd be interestd in that data. Specifically, what's the normal "mortality rate" for a group of boys joining Scouta at age 11? How many of those boys will still be active by age 18? How many make Eagle? How many will remain active through age 18 but not make Eagle? My hunch is that the number active Scouts who age out without making Eagle is substantially lower than the number of Eagles who age out of the program(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

We charge $125 per year and do no fundraising. That covers all troop expenses like advancement, camping gear (we provide all patrol gear including tent and cooking gear), program materials, and camp fees charged to the troop. It does not cover individual cost like food for campouts or summer camp fees. Yes, we understand the argument that the boys should be paying their own way and are looking at possible fundraisers which will be both profitable and within the ability of the Scouts to do most of the work. Up until a year ago we held a troop yard sale which generated about half the troop's annual budget. For a number of reasons it's been less and less profitable to the point we decided it was not longer worth the effort. Parents who feel strongly that the Scouts should be earning the money for the troop are encouraged to have their son earn the $125 themselves. Question: Which member of the PLC is responsible for developing and maintaining the troop budget? Please reference appropriate BSA resources.

The key to understanding this is knowing that you don't break in the hat, you break in your head. I can also tell you that campaign hats should be worn higher on your head than most of us who wear ball caps are accustomed to. It should sit fairly high and level on you head.

Friendly cup of coffee my foot! It's time to kick some backsides. This is an adult problem and needs and adult solution. Your son needs an advocate, someone to go to bat for him, whether it your, his dad or a troop committee person. Call this bozo Troop Eagle adviser and give him 24 hours to approve the project or provide your son with the info he needs to appeal the decision, AS IS REQUIRED BY BSA ADVANCEMENT GUIDELINES. If he doesn't come across, go back to the DAC with the same demand. At that point I would write a SHORT letter to the Council Advancement Chairman explaining the situation and requesting quick a review and approval of your son's project. Failing that, they should provide you with instructions for appealing their decision to National. Send copies of your letter to the Scout Executive and Council president. I am sick and tired of the empire building that goes on in Scouting with people using their tenure and experience to throw their weight around. If people get their knickers in a knot, TOUGH!

Most folks here wear the beads as described above: Twisted to make a secondary loop with the necker tails poking through. But the people at Gilwell last summer were wearing theirs with the thong through the woggle, just like the neckerchief. I like that, mainly because I revel in being contrary and curmudgeonly. I especially enjoy it when people try to "fix" my beads and I get to tell them that I'm wearing them the way I they do Gilwell.

Camp Grimes (Mecklenburg County Council) and Camp Bud Shiell (Piedmont Council) are both nice and not too far from each other. They in more in the foothills (less walking up and down) but are still pleasant weather-wise.

Earlier in my experience as a Scouter I was more into the idea of solving problems rolling up your sleeves, getting involved and volunteering yourself. Two things have tempered my thinking on that. One, serving as Scoutmaster, the district committee and a council-level committee is enough. I'll take responsibility to do the jobs I have well. The people doing the other jobs -- training, in Brian's case -- need to do the same. Secondly, I have come to learn that not every problem committee or function wants the help. A few weeks ago on another thread someone made a suggestion I thought was absolutely inspired. My apologies to whoever suggest this originally for not being able to give you credit. Put your complaint in a letter to your Chartered Organization Representative. Have him or her forward it to the Council's Scout Executive and Council President with his or her own letter asking why they Council is not fulfilling their responsibilities to the unit as outlined in the in the Charter agreement. Good luck!

GW -- of course he could have refused. And had the contact come at the mall or over the phone, I have no doubt that his radar would have been on and he would have declined. The point is that they were using the aegis of Scouting to collect information. Do we not have standards regarding how we handle such information?

Do you know what you get when you mix politics and religion? Politics. I do have a bone to pick with the LDS/BSA relationship people. Last summer, number one son went to world jambo and visited the Faiths exhibits. He spoke with Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, Sikhs, Mormons and just about every other major religion known in the world. Many gave religious tracts and documents (the one from the Sikhs was particularly interesting.) He came home with a Jewish Scout prayer book (which he gave to a troop member as a Bah Mitzvah gift), a Book of Mormon and a Koran. Interestingly, only the LDS church asked for his name and address and then used that information to send people to our home. To me, that was over the line and a violation of his privacy. I know that our/my sensibilities about privacy of the youth participants isn't necessarily shared around the world, but I don't think that sort of thing would have been tolerated within the US. Quite obviously people here in the states were involved in the decisions to set this up. And you cant write it off as an over zealous volunteer. The program had to be decided and supported at a fairly high level. Of course, the guys who showed up at our doorstep were very courteous, polite and persistent. I had to very pointedly tell them I didn't appreciate how they came to get my son's name and to please not come back before they stopped coming by.

You are absolutely entitled to wear it. I wear a '73 jambo patch on some shirts and a '07 world on others.

How many of you have a troop outings committee or coordinator? What is their job description? What do they do? How do they interface with the PLC and/or Scoutmasters? How do you maintain the lines between the PLC planning outings and the committee handling things? Does it change depending on the outing? Thanks

At a highland games about a year ago I spoke with a gentleman from Clan McLaren who was also a Scouter. He was telling me the clan has a program to help provide Scout units with kilts. It may take so digging around to find the right guy, but try Googling Clan McLaren Society North America. We're going to the games this weekend and I'll see if the McLarens have a tent. I have three different kilts and can tell you absolutely that nothing is worn under a Highlander's kilt -- everything is in perfect working order.

I think Bob White got the break down right in his first post. But I don't think a new CC or COR is going to change anything. The Scoutmaster of this troop is a good friend of mine -- well, if it's not him, it's three other guys just like him. He walks on hallowed ground. People avert their eyes and speak in hushed tones when he's in the building. I'll guarantee you half the troops in his council wish their program were like his. Nothing is going to change until the SM wants it to. Even if I were coming in as a new SM with the blessings of the CC and COR to change things I would still move slowly. There's no need to make a big deal of the changes. We had a little bit of this stuff going on in our troop when I took over as SM. I simply and quietly stopped enforcing stuff. I let the boys take the MBs they want at summer camp (although we do make recommendations) and Life Scouts begin their Eagle projects when they're ready, not after they've finished all the MBs.