blw2

OK, so I see they have a WFA course on the calendar finally. It's about the only adult training left, that I'm really interested in taking.... & our training chair has been pushing to get some folks trained anyway. How long is the certification good for? I did a bit of searching and came up blank. Didn't look too hard, but figured this could be a discussion anyway.... I wouldn't mind having this training for personal reasons anyway, and to help the troop....but I won't likely be doing many high adventure BSA outings in the short term just based on my son's age. I'd hate to spend the money and time, only to have it expire before I start in on the fun trips!

I've mentioned before that I'm reading Rocks in my Backpack..... If you've never read it, the author was a long time SM in MN then CO. In CO his troop was a backpacking and mountain hiking troop. Seems like they did a lot of it through the years. It strikes me as somehow easier to do ad-hoc make your own adventure trips when you got almost infinite number of hiking trails, lakeside dispersed camping, etc...within a few hours drive. We have some public land here, but not nearly as much as folks out west have....and most of it isn't nearly as redeeming.

yeah, we went through many of those boring meetings too. Some of mine I'm sure were too, but I really made effort to get the scouts up and having fun as often as possible. I tried to move things from "announcements to the parents" to "let's recognize and then have some fun".

I will say this about the idea of den leaders not showing up to committee meetings or to support the pack generally... While not part of the committee formally, I hoped our DL's would participate. We were short staffed and needed all the help we could get.... folks to take on pack level events as chairperson to get in the loop regarding prepping for the pack meetings maybe take a roll in facilitating a skit or even if for nothing more than to brainstorm When I was CM and basically CC too, I had a few DL's that would barely if ever show up. They ran their dens, for which i was thankful, although a few didn't meet nearly enough in my estimation.... but it really left us short handed. A lot of things I wold like to do at the pack meetings either didn't get done or were very uncoordinated because folks were never available or participating in the planning For what it's worth, I always looked at the DL's to be the hardest working scouters in the pack, and I really did try to shield them from taking on too much extra stuff, but I needed them too sometimes...and I ended up feeling abandoned on more than a few occasions.

Good for you guys!!! our troop has entered the lottery for that same timeframe, but i haven't heard anything about it yet. Missed the meeting last night IF they announced it... Sadly though, my son will just skate under the age/grade requirement to go, so he'll be left out cold. He'll be 13 by that September, but not graduated from the 8th grade. Many of his friends I think will be 14 by then so they'll be going without him. That really is a shame.... it's things like this that will drive a kid away from scouts. I hope you folks don't have any cases like that in your troop.

yep, I sure have dealt with aggrevation in the pack.... this is sure sign you are getting too "close" you've got to figure out how to let go of it and focus on the den, or move on. If the entire den wanted to join another pack, it might be up to them but nothing says you can't have den meetings anywhere..... traditionally they would be held at the DL's house. You could do that and only travel the 10 miles for the pack meetings once a month of course if the new pack was good with that. The better approach might be to focus on good den meetings, do what you want to do. Don't go to the committee meetings if it's getting your blood up.... I didn't catch what year/rank are you working? and your username, beaglelover..... what is that about? I raised a couple litters of beagles when I was in high school. We hunted them and they weren't really pets, but they could be good dogs.....too high strung to be an obedient pet in my experience, but I know a lot of folks have them as house dogs,.....

I think an interesting twist to you plan might be to NOT require the necker.... instead, plan the events and challenges where the necker could be a useful tool, not in an obvious way, but very subtly.... plan it so that the scouts actually discover the idea for themsleves that a necker can be useful. You might have one in your back pocket more as a bandana, and they might if they are being observant, see you using it to great utility to work through the problems..... with the idea of letting THEM discover it. I'm a proponent of the uniform. Pretty much wear it through all of camp, even though "class b" might be the uniform of the day. But I think the underlying thing in what you wrote is huge.... focusing on making the scouting program something they are proud to be a part of...(& I would add something of value). With that in mind, if we were to step back and look at the big picture, would it really be so bad if the uniform went away entirely? I'm thinking as long as we are building character and the scouts are having fun, we are meeting the bigger goal, right? Interesting! I think that points to a natural desire for uniforming's sense of belonging and all of that. It really isn't such a bad thing.....just a balance to find what works and what doesn't

oh, look forward to reading more about your preparation and journey. Doing a trip log or anything?

yes to all posts.... helpful, interesting, and cool! like to read about older guys doing it.... currently watching a vlog series on youtube by a girl that through hiked last year. She seems to be going through at least mostly sober....and she's being a purist about hiking every inch.... but over all It really strikes me that the AT scene really is more of a "beatnik" social fest. Fun and making friends and all... I love the idea of that a little bit, but mostly I'm craving the nature and mountains. Kinda want to get away from crowds.

I should add, they chose, but I use that term loosely. As with most decisions I think they are heavily adult steered and swayed.

I see more adults bucking away from them. The scouts in our troop generally don't seem to mind them... in fact they chose, must like qazwse's troop

yeah, I tried for a long time to get a good buy on ebay for a bugle right after I signed on, but was always outbid. Eventually gave up

I've often thought how great it would be to have a proper scout hut. and thought if I ever become very very wealthy, maybe I'll make it happen for the troop. I'll have to add that feature to the design!

honestly.... I would start thinking about skipping the bridge. the rope bridge carries a certain sense of risk that the kids enjoy or fear, depending on the kid.... but it's memorable either way but once you start going to wheelchair accessible, all of that is sorta lost. I think an important question is.... "is this a ceremony for the scouts or is it for mom?" none of it is necessary or required.... the whole crossing over thing I mean. I'll throw this out for brainstorming though..... one of our council camps is set up with the campfire theater stage on one side of a small creek with a bridge going over to the seating side. We have a pack using it as their crossover bridge....doing a whole B&G camping weekend, inviting the troops, etc.... really seems like a good idea to me. Find someplace with a bridge and do it as a campout.

exactly. Wouldn't have to be top of the line stuff.... almost any 1-2 man tent could fit the bill great. Not like they are doing a through on the AT with it. a small tent from walmart could be a step in the direction I mean. Heavy, sure....but split between a couple scouts manageable for short hikes. Gets the brain going for camping with less stuff and opens up easier transition into things like overnight canoe trips where you might not be floating the trailer along.... or a few mile over night hike maybe, to a nice swimming hole. also they are cheap and replaceable when they don't last. Many of our guys use hammocks and a few have smaller 1 man biveys. I'm figuring that 90% of the camps will still be steps away form the tailgate of the SM's truck, but it would get them practiced up so that it's not as big of a deal when a more adventuresome trip opportunity presents itself. as a comparison, right now I would guess it would take a fairly big investment for our troop to do a little 1 mile in and out backpacking overnight. The guys have never gone without a cooler, don't have little stoves, don't know how to camp cook without pots/pans, dutch ovens, etc... and many have tents that would not be reasonable at all to carry.... We could probably pull off a overnight in the canoes camping on a sandbar, but even that would take some doing.

I'm reminded of my theory that troops could be well served to promote and use backpacking gear for every campout...... kinda points to and leads to more adventure than "tailgate camping" I think. but on the other hand I think of the book I'm reading, Rocks in My Backpack, where the author describes some huge tent the troop had.... think he was calling it the circus tent. I forget how big he said it was, but I can imagine good times could be had with the big crown bunking up like that.

Excellent summary there @@Stosh! I was thinking just around the fun "patrol spirit" angle, like a cheer. That is in affect what the troops are doing during the flag ceremony at camps, right....more like a cheer. I did see that it encourages spirit, and all of that. The stuff you write about really gives the practice some teeth. Makes it practical and useful even. Too bad this kind of thing isn't taught. Not saying the scouts would buy into the idea, but if they were taught it at least they would be given a chance to consider it.

our scouts provide/ have their own tents and gear The only troop gear is camp kitchen stuff lanterns etc... I think there are some old tents and bags in the trailer for use as spares

I was told we had a scout working on the Bugle MB when i first signed up for MBC. I reluctantly agreed to sign on for it.... because the kid needed a counselor and there were none apparently. I played trumpet as a kid and have dabbled with it a bit since.... I can't really say I'm overly comfortable with the idea since I am not really a bugler....but I figure I can at least work with the scout if he ever does call. Think interest in it probably died at some point.... Went to a funeral a couple years back. My wife's uncle had served in the military and had a bugler and flag ceremony at his service. I'll admit that this ALWAYS brings a tear to my eye..... but this one lacked a little something. The bugle had a speaker in the bell....kinda like lip syncing, only different. I guess even the US military has a severe shortage of buglers.

exactly right. When we come together at camporee, and again at summer camp, for morning flags.... we do the troop yell thing at "flags" Some troops really get into it, ours doesn't. I think it would be great if they did.... I think it would be more fun than the scouts know to have and to show a little troop pride. but I have NEVER seen anyone do any sort of patrol yell. I really think it could be so much more fun than the scouts even know to have some patrol spirit.... & I think if patrol spirit was fostered more, the patrol method would be used better to its potential.... OK historian Stosh, a question?.... did ever in the past they have a practice of calling role when the troop comes together....just like they do for troops at summer camp before flag opening? So that at the opening of the troop meeting..... the SPL says "is the Coyote Patrol present?".... If so, THEN there would be a reason for a yell. I can even imagine using it when the troop comes together at summer camp or camporee.... instead of a "troop yell", it's each patrol sounding off in sequence.

I think you nailed it well, it does seem like an old fashioned concept your "announce this at RT" makes me laugh...... I'll bet it's almost sub-conscience.... they are probably always struggling to think of things to do to make RT interesting...or to fill the time....so they loose sight of the getting the word out part

agreed. In fact I've had this exact discussion with one of the dads in my unit. Bear is just about perfect to start in my opinion..... maybe even wait for 1st year WEBELOS....although I suppose that would depend on having a well run pack for older boys introducing patrol method and such.... if it's too babied down maybe not so good...

kind of funny in a way, we have almost the opposite problem. Troop adults have steered the thinking to the idea that summer camp must be up in the mountains so that it's cooler weather. My son doesn't want to go because it's not enough fun to justify the long car ride. he'd rather stay closer..... and while I agree I'm not jazzed about camping in the heat, I also see that we could go much closer and get into some hills but yet not the mountains.... or beach side someplace...and be a whole lot closer yet still maybe just a bit cooler than our own council....& this would then enable adults to do partial week hand offs and spend less vacation time, etc... I'm reminded about the other thread about fund raising.... if the argument is that it's about the committee paying for gas.... THIS is where scout lead fundraising makes sense....they find out how much it's going to cost, and they figure out a way to pay for it.... no more argument.

I'm actually in the opposite camp.... I have a samll part of me that is embarrassed that I'm sending my kid out to bother you about buying something you probably don't want to pay for my kid to do something fun. I can pay my own way, and in my mind that means covering my responsibilities yeah, I get that the idea is about instilling that same feeling in my son, but honestly I really do not think he's getting any of that from scout fundraising, or band fundraising, or any of it.....none, zero, zilch where he'll learn the lesson best is figuring out how to earn some money on his own to buy something he wants.

I haven't been following or participating in this thread, & I'll admit to only skimming it.... so I hope this doesn't derail things I'm currently reading "Rocks in My Backpack", good read so far by the way.... I find myself chuckling every few pages. But on the subject here, the section I'm currently reading is about his troop in the 1970's. They were running a decent outdoor program in colorado. Lots of backpacking and a little repelling and such. The GS leader contacts him concerned that she's loosing her older girls, and asked if the boy scouts would teach the girl scouts about these things.... after a tepid start, it seems to be taking off, with some joint coed outings and backpacking trips. Seems like some good times were had.....