shortridge

Your DE is wrong. He or she can't "order" anything of this nature. Sounds to me like he or she is low on Boy Scout recruitment numbers, and wants to bump them up before the end of the calendar year. SM214 wrote: "and its not fair to the W2s who have worked hard on AOL, resident camps and the like to have boys in their class just join and be Boy Scouts with no prior knowledge what so ever of the Program, and they lack the maturity level to be in the Bigs ( so to speak)" Echoing Lisabob, this shouldn't be an issue. Cub Scouting experience and prior knowledge are not prerequisites to joining Boy Scouts. "It's not fair to the other kids" shouldn't enter into this equation. The maturity level shouldn't be an issue, either - the joining requirements are crystal-clear, and these Webelos simply aren't eligible yet until they turn 11. I feel sorry for you and your troop - no matter how this works out, it's going to be bad. Either the DE or the parents are going to be angry and upset.

I don't know enough about the regional offices to comment on that... butas someone who works from home, two hours away from the main office, I'd just observe that service may indeed actually improve, despite the counter-intuitive nature of this move. When you're not "in the face" of your boss or other senior people every day, there's a definite disconnect and loss of efficiency. E-mail, the phone, videoconferencing, online chat - it works decently enough, but there's still a lot to be said for in-person communication. When you're out in the field, you can fall victim to the out-of-sight, out-of-mind syndrome - you're either forgotten or taken for granted.

"They still have silver and gold loops, but they aren't listed on the scoutstuff catalog." Were they ever? Weren't the silver & gold always restricted items?

Welcome aboard! Think of it less in terms of joint custody, and more as a co-parenting arrangement. The troop and the crew are going to be both responsible for the equipment, meeting place, separate programs, etc. Both groups are working toward the same goal - the best interests of the Scouts/Venturers - but may have different ways of accomplishing those goals, much like divorced parents working cooperatively. However, before you start setting bylaws, I'd take a very hard look at what the Scouts/fledgling Venturers want to get out of the new crew program, and what they're willing to do. That will largely guide how the committee sets things up from a logistical or administrative standpoint. Do they want to hang out and do cool stuff with girls? Are they interested in the new challenge of earning the Venturing recognitions? Do they want to specialize in a hobby or niche adventure activity that they can't do "babysitting" all the young'uns in the troop? Depending on the answers, a Venture Patrol may be your best bet - and it doesn't require a whole new apparatus.

I always thought it was pronounced hah-koo-nah mah-tah-tah.

MikeS - I'm not quite sure what you mean by "re-adopting" the Admonition. Seems to me just changing the pronunciation would do it. As for a petition, the e-mail addresses for the national officers are listed in the most recent National Bulletin, at oa-bsa.org.

If you have a young child, or know a young child, I highly recommend the "Puff" book and CD that Peter Yarrow and Lenny Lipton put out a few years ago. It's a beautiful book with a great twist at the end - especially if you have a daughter. :-)

Some good advice here: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=197098 Sounds like you've got some cynics in the chapter. After all, there's nothing wrong with a little honest work. Good luck!

A slightly different perspective... As a former chapter chief and lodge vice-chief, I can say that I would have smacked some adults over their heads if they just sat quietly and never said anything. I knew that they had more experience than I did in almost every area of lodge operations, and I wanted to learn from them. I asked for their ideas and advice, especially when we were getting close to reinventing-the-wheel territory. But I knew that the decisions were ultimately mine, from the micro to the macro, and I occasionally made choices that were at odds with what they advised. Adult association is no less a method of Scouting in the Order just because it's a youth-run organization. I valued the relationships with adults in my chapter and lodge perhaps even more than in my troop context because we were equals - all brothers and sisters under the sash. I listened to them, and they listened to me, and we all respected each other. However, it irritated me when certain advisers would take over the floor from the youth officers they advised and dominate the discussions or decisions. That indicated a poor officer-adviser relationship - not a symptom of huge problems within the Order, but just something that needed to be corrected on a case-by-case basis. IMHO, it really does come down to good adviser selections and training - not just taking the first warm body that pops up.

Did the PLC take a firm stand on meeting on those nights - perhaps because they need those extra meetings for prep for treks? Or did they simply say "OK" to the calendar that you and the SM put together? If the former, then the troop committee needs to understand that. If the former - if the boys aren't gung-ho for this, and if those meetings aren't crucial to carrying out their planned program - then it's more a conflict between adults, and not worth a fight.

In addition to whatever records they hand you, specifically ask for a copy of the pack budgets for the last few years - not just what's gone in/out, but the fiscal plans. If they can't produce them, that'll tell you volumes about how things have been run. Dividing $3,000 among 22 boys is about $136 per Cub. So even if you split everything up equally, even if your pack committee made this decision and everything is above-board, those three rising Boy Scouts are going to get more than double what they "deserve." That doesn't make sense. Looking forward, your DE can steer you to resources, including your unit commissioner, and training that will help you get the pack off the ground again. Sounds like he did a bit of a con job with the CC, though, so be prepared to go it alone. But even if you decide not to pick a battle over the $1,000 for three Scouts (which is ridiculous, IMHO), you still have $2,000 left, which is a solid base to work from. Count yourself lucky in that respect.

Well, BSA meets two of those three descriptions - as a congressionally-chartered nonprofit organization. Sound pretty similar, actually.

By my reading of the thread linked above, the term "joint charter" is a misnomer. It sounds as though the CAP units are actually the chartered organization, and apply their own rules to take precedence over the BSA's. Isn't that a local option? Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of how CAP units work.

Certainly, not all knots are created equal, and that's not how this idea should be judged. (The Distinguished Commissioner Award isn't exactly on par with the Medal of Honor Award, for example. And the James E. West Fellowship Award ... well, 'nuff said.) I would compare the Den Chief Service Award to awards given to Cub Scout adult leaders. The requirements are very similar, though on a different scale.

Good luck, and bless you for stepping in! Another bit of advice: Connect with the local Boy Scout troop and ask for some referrals for possible den chiefs - IMHO, these are ideally older Scouts (13+) who have gone through Cubs and earned the Arrow of Light. They can be a valuable resource.

The Wood Badge youngsters thread got me thinking... What was your AW-#### moment in life? Mine was the birth of my daughter five years ago, a slam-bang-dunk lifechanger.

"So, what you are saying is... If a person willfully and intentionally affects another person in a negative way, is not abuse ?" Not necessarily, no. There is abuse, and there is abuse of power. Two separate things. Contacting Child Protective Services, as you initially asked, would get you laughed out of town. On the other hand, if you believe the district advancement committee has abused its power, then have your COR take up the cause. Other definitions that may pertain to this situation include incompetence, aggravation, frustration, ignorance or misinformation, by any or all of the parties involved. Those don't necessarily mean that abuse has occurred. You're free to do whatever you like, of course - contacting CPS, contacting an attorney, whatever. Personally, I'd advise you to crack open a dictionary, take a few steps back, take more than a few deep breaths, and let it go.

kahits - Nice video. Was that an umbrella with a bird's nest on top?

A few additional thoughts... - Develop a quick, funny "patter" down for your initial demonstrations, aimed at keeping their attention. They'll want to get to the hands-on stuff quickly, and don't like to pay attention to someone just talking. Keep it fun and active. Practice a couple times in front of a mirror. - Have a lot of patience, and be prepared to work with each Cub several times on each knot. If you can get one adult per Cub to help them, that will dramatically improve their chances of picking it up quickly. With just one instructor standing up at the front of the room or the head of the picnic table, there will be a disconnect between the Cubs looking up at you and looking back down at their knots, and they'll lose their place. Extra adults or Boy Scouts can really help. - Knot-tying requires hand-and-eye coordination, to be sure, but it also is a skill that requires three-dimensional thinking, which video games definitely don't teach and which younger kids often have problems with. Patience is the key.

Seems like y'all seriously disagree with National's goal that everyone complete Wood Badge within two years of registering as an adult leader.

Work on the practical uses for the knots to show them how they actually come in handy - the bowline for rescues (especially great if you can do a one-handed demo), the square knot for joining ropes, etc. If you're adventurous, have them tie one rope to a solid post with two half-hitches or a clove hitch, join it to another rope with a square knot, and then tie a bowline to fit around you ... then lean back and test the knots! I'd disagree strongly with JoeBob's approach of tying people up, even with close supervision. That should be one of the rope safety and use rules that you go over at the outset. ("Rope is a tool, just like a hammer or a saw, and should not be misused. ... You wouldn't hurt someone with a hammer, and you wouldn't leave a saw out on the ground in the rain..." etc.)

Nothing wrong with it, certainly, though the PLC will probably want to set some firm ground rules about check-ins and reminders about behavior. Suggest that they wear Class B's/troop T-shirts and see how they respond. Theme park costs can go up really quick, especially if you eat the incredibly expensive food on-premises. They may want to consider getting some sort of wristband/all-day pass deal and leaving for lunch (a quick tailgating cookout in the parking lot, perhaps?).

Can he simply re-register now, and pass the word through the district that he shouldn't be sent any additional Scouts? Then in January, he could simply not re-register (again!), thus clearing up any potential problems.

"What recourse do I have to force the removal of this committee ?" Contact your council advancement committee and district leadership and complain. "How can I force the committee to justify their decisions/actions ?" Ask them. If they decline to answer, you can't force them to do anything. "Should I get Child Protective Services involved ?" Uhm. Huh? If you want to get laughed off the phone by CPS, go ahead. Screwing up a procedural paperwork process is not "abusing Scouts." Calm down a bit, and then go take the district advancement chairman for a cup of coffee.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

The Guide to Safe Scouting includes conflicting information about whether Webelos can do kayaking. The statement I quoted above, in the main text section, clearly states they can't. The age-appropriate activities chart says they can, on flatwater, as part of district or council activities. I'll stick with the clear and unambiguous statement, thanks, not the chart that a graphic designer could easily have misdesigned.