SeattlePioneer

> My worry is the opposite, that an overenthusiatic band of WoodBadgers will take over and dominate the evening, just as describe in desertrat's previous post.

Hello Moosetracker, I didn't see any reference to a BSA rule that would prohibit or discourage signing up boys as Scouts who don't live in the area. What you are doing is voicing your own objections to doing that. If someone needs five registered boys for a Troop ---sign 'em up. I see no reason not to do that if someone wants to get a unit off the ground.

Have well trained and experienced Patrol Leaders and you have one of the foundations for a great troop.

Hello Merlyn,

Hello Moosetracker, > If a real parent signs up a real boy for a Troop in New York when they live in California, what's wrong with that? You want five Scouts to start a troop, you get five Scouts and start your troop. How does that violate any BSA rule?

Scout activities often feature a simple prayer of some kind, something the "diversity" of politically correct schools recoil from in horror. The "diversity" of politically correct institutions is just another form of orthodoxy imposed upon people. It gives some people new liberties and imposes censorship on others, forcing them into the closet recently vacated by those being smiled upon by the political powers that be. In Seattle the latest word in political orthodoxy is to prohibit retailers from offering plastic bags to those making retail purchases. It's just another way that a political majority imposes it's views on a minority --- for particularly trivial reasons in this case. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I think you'd want to drink the Bud first so you wouldn't have to carry it.

Find a couple of relatives or family friends and ask them to sign applications to join your troop for Scout aged boys. They can reside pretty much anywhere. The BSA membership fee through the end of 2012 would be $7.50 each. Problem solved.

> I agree. Woodbadge is the most over promoted program in Scouting, in my opinion. Our quarterly council Roundtables usually have somebody promoting Woodbadge for at least ten minutes, despite the fact that the large majority of people have taken Woodbadge and most have heard the pitch MANY times.

Rock bands have warm up acts. Simplify and shorten the Wood Badge beading --- they are usually 'way too long and boring anyway. The Wood Badge beaduing can be the warm up act for the ECOH. Then do the Eagle COH. Frankly, they are usually too long and boring too.

d then there are the questions you rarely hear, such as "Would you like me to be the Advancement Chair for the Troop/Pack?" "Can I contact neighboring Cub Packs for you and see if they have Webelos Dens that would like to go on our Troop hike?"

I recently bought a pair of uniform pants on E-bay for $15 or so. These didn't have the cargo pockets and such which was my preference. I put in a search parameter for what I wanted and received an e-mail every couple of days with items that were possibilities, and I found and got what I wanted within a couple of weeks. I think I used adult boy scout uniform pants as a search parameter, or something like that.

Hello Troop, Yours is a very common story. The first key to a Pack or Troop that will command the support of parents is to have an exciting program that both parents and children find worthwhile. I'd look at both the Cub Pack and Troop for weaknesses. Does your pack do the same things each year? What kind of activities do you have scheduled for 2012-2013? Secondly, I think a key is to get parents in the HABIT of supporting the pack right away, and to have an exciting program for new families right away. In my pack we will have a stomp bottle rocket launch as a recuting night and first pack meeting combined on September 12th. A first den meeting September 17th will introduce new families to Cub Scouts by completing several Bobcat requirements and preparing for a fun hike September 22nd. The hike features a visit to a library, a self guiding hike to a farm where the Scouts have a tour and do a farm chore, and then a hot dog roast before hiking back. September 24th is our monthly parent meeting, which functions as a reception for new parents and to which the new parents will be invited. After having three exciting events, they are usually ready to show up and be ready to help with the program for the next month. Very often, new families are ignored once they fill out an application and write a check. Often it takes weeks or months before they start to understand how Cub Scouts work, and often they've discovered they can be artful dodgers of pack leadership by that time. My solution is to get new families started right away with an exciting program youth and adults find worthwhile and worth supporting.

My impression is that councils are commonly unreasonably demanding of DEs. I expect DEs to keep themselves busy, but making excessive demands on people is a bad practice.

> A very large council or a very large troop? I don't suppose it could have been very large because of a contingent of trained and motivated Scouters?

Fish on! Good luck!

Heh, heh! I'm sure Obama's campaign of subversion will be followed up by drone strikes on Irving, Texas. They will be explained away as "mysterious" explosions.

Fun for boys needs to be the cornerstone of all Scouting programs. From what I've seen, Webelos is the program most likely to be done poorly. The temptation is to "work" through an excessively long list of requirements and not to do the age appropriate hiking and camping Webelos Scouts are ready to do and able to do, ideally in conjunction with a Boy Scout Troop. Treating the Webelos program like another year of Cub Scouts is a very common mistake.

> Doesn't really seem to be "corporal punishment." I don't consider such punishment to be degrading. Think of it as "company punishment," informal punishment that doesn't involve formal findings of wrong doing that a court martial would in the military (or a complaint to parents). I might consider giving Scouts a choice for minor misbehavior: Do twenty pushups or go home and we'll discuss this matter with your parents.

No problem.

Sounds like a great program, Scout Nut. Many of the families in our pack sell the $200 in popcorn to get their pack membership paid. A few find it simpler to pay the $60 fee. I prefer giving families that option myself. A number of families sell quite a bit of popcorn, probably motivated by the 25% of sales going to Scout Accounts. That is available to pay for uniforms, activity fees, day camp --- Friends of Scouting --- any Scouting related cost. Families who wish to can pay for ALL their Scouting costs through the popcorn sale. The key for me is to enable newly recruited families to experience the popcorn sale and to use it to fund their Scout expenses should they wish to do so. A lot of packs are dilatory and new families don't participate. We have a reasonably active pack during the summer, but by including current Scouts in an exciting activity that also doubles as a recruiting night, we create more excitement and take no chances in keeping existing families participating. That's my theory, anyway. Sounds like we have similar goals for getting things started in the fall and recruiting new families. I'm always glad to hear about new ways and means of doing that --- thank you. My main reason for starting this thread was to get pack leaders who DON'T deal effectively with such issues some ideas to consider for this fall.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hello Barry, Personally, my aim is to begin integrating new parents into the pack program immediately! If you start right away, you establish that as a habit. If you let those new parents off the hook, they establish that as a habit and become artful dodgers for their remaining tenure with the pack. That's my experience. And I use the Tiger year as the foundation for the pack's future leadership. Because Tiger Cub parents work together, they get to know each other and the Cub Scout program. That builds habits and bonds that persist in future years. There are people who drop in and drop out just as fast. Your experience suggests they can be saved for the program, but the price seems very high. This spring all the newly recruited families formed our Bobcat Den, which I led. The recruiting night was an egg drop where adults and boys packaged an egg and then dropped it off a balcony to see if it survived. At our first Bobcat Den Meeting boys got a neckerchief and slide, and were considered to be "in uniform." We started going over Bobcat requirements and prepared for a fun hike and hot dog roast the following Saturday. The next Monday was our montholy parent meeting, which functioned as a reception for those new parents who were invited and all of whom attended. In early June we did a Pack overnight in which all the new Bobcats received their Bobcat badge and helped to form their new dens for the next year. So our aim was to make a REAL EFFORT to educate parents on the Cub Scout program and to show them the value and worth of the pack program. That tends to cause most such parents to buy into the program and make a commitment to the program. Well, we have different methods and different experiences and results. I suppose we are both entitled to use the methods that work for us. Thanks for explaining your program in more detail.

Most packs that do Scout accounts keep a portion of the popcorn profits to fund pack activities. And the pack and council provide substantial services to sponsor and manage the popcorn sale ---it's unreasonable to expect you will get 100% of what the pack earns and the pack will get 0%

> There are certainly loads of atheists and homosexuals in Scouting now. They merely need to accept the values of Scouting as it is in order to get along. Should BSA decide to change current principles because it is determined to be the right thing to do, I would expect to support that. The real bottom line is that you are NEVER going to make everyone happy. Choose the best values and practices you can and let the chips fall where they may. Frankly, atheists have a responsibility to respect the beliefs of others too. If a short prayer is being said, be respectful and listen even if you don't believe. Respect works both ways.

Hello CCbytrickery, Sounds like you shape your program with similar motives, but the details differ somewhat. I make our first meeting of the school year an exciting competition for both new boys and current Cub Scouts. My theory is that "recruiting" existing Cub Scouts to the new program for the new year will help retention. Too often I hear of packs who get things off to a very slow start, concentrating early meetings on collecting dues for the next year and organizing new dens. How boring and tedious is that? Start with a bang and with a FUN activity is my approach.