SeattlePioneer

After reading this thread I can understand why the Scout is confused, why the unit leaders are confused and why the parents are confused. Having read this thread I am surely confused!

From a post by Basement: > Good question. Anyone have an answer?

Hello Scoutfish, The scheduled check in time sounds interesting. I'd be surprised if the big eaters didn't show up at the beginning of the lunch period and leave nothing after about a half hour!

Hello Get, In general, I disagree with 1-17 on your list.

I'm only up to Page Three of this thread, but I'll post anyway. I've been toiling at the Cub Scout level for a number of years, because "You can't have a youth program without YOUTH!" and most of those come from Cub Scouts. So I'll comment on how I aim to support the Boy Scout program with Cub Scouts. #1 is to keep Cub Scout units healthy and recruiting new boys. I could use more help with that from Scout Troops frankly, that tend to ignore Cub Packs except to scoop up those Webelos IIs. #2 is to emphasize hiking and camping as Cub Scout activities. When I do Cub Scout hikes, they aren't the "Death Marches" Boy Scouts are fond of doing. They emphasize relatively short hikes in terms of distance, but encountering a variety of activities to do along the way. I usually try to make them self guiding by posting Cub Scout recruiting yard signs along the route, to encourage the Cub leading themselves. And I like to conclude with some activity that brings everyone together with a final fun activity ---hot dogs roasts over a fire work well with that. I encourage den and pack competitions with Cub Scouts setting up tents on their own (Tiger Cubs with help from parents). #3 Dens make new flags each year at our June campout. The flags usually become the focus of a good deal of emotional energy over the next year. #4 We aim to make Cub Scout responsible for cooking simple meals. At our last campout, Tiger Cubs were responsible for preparing an after snack of apples, bananas, graps and string cheese. Webelos cooked a spaghetti dinner for about 30 adults and youth. Bears cooked a pancake and sausage breakfast for everyone the next morning. #5 We use competitions to spark interest in the program and between dens. But it is low key competition to spice those activities, not to create a desperate urge to "WIN." So boys get used to working together as dens and competing between dens as well. Den competitions to set up tents would be one example. My personal favorite is our December sleigh races. Dens build a cardboard sleigh as a den activity, and then compete in sleigh races with other dens at the December pack meeting. One Scout sits in the sleigh and is pulled around the race course by the other boys in the den, and then boys switch being in the sleigh and pull the new boy around the race course. Wow! You really can't have much more fun than that! The parents love it too! In my view, a quality Cub Scout program shapes the interest and understanding of boys and parents towards Boy Scouting kind of program and activities.

Hello Basement, Like you I'm not big on paying people to entertain Cub Scouts. If you have buckets of money I suppose that's fine, but my bias runs towards a thrifty program where we entertain ourselves. We did spend a couple of buckets of money on our pack campout in early June, but that was mostly spent on food and on activities presented by parents, which included making den flags, candles and nice wooden boxes for Scout souvenirs. As far as attending sporting events, I'm personally negative on pro sports. My bias would be for a Den to visit a Cub Scout's Little League game, roast hot dogs or marshmallows and to cheer for the Cub Scout's team. After the game I'd be sure to invite the team members and coach to join the pack when the season is over. I haven't done that yet, but I'd like to. Cub Scouts mostly would like to take in a pro sports game. If a parent wanted to organize that, I'd make no objection. But so far no one has and we haven't done that as an activity. Anyone care to describe how they make watching sports an activity for their Pack or Troop?

Still no contacts as a result of the flyers yesterday. As other noted, I wouldn't expect it to be a hugely effective method. But it does wave the flag and it helps to carry out my general objective as district membership chair to invite every boy of Scouting age to join Scouting. The nicest thing for me is that I was recognized by boys or parents watching the parade forty or more times. Some were folks who've been in units I've been associated with. Others are boys who see me in their schools doing recruiting in the spring and fall. The other nice thing is the warm reception I always got from those watching the parade. I could pretty much always elicit an interest in hiking, camping, shooting BB Guns and bows and arrows from boys. And parents always gave me a smiling reception when I importuned their children. That can't hurt. My favorite interaction was when I was being passed by a car bearing some ancient veterans of the nation's wars. When I asked one old Vet if he had been in Boy Scouts as a youth, he replied in the affirmative with enthusiasm and recalled some of his Scouting experiences. It is very nice to tap into that deep well of support for Scouting which still dwells in the hearts of Americans.

Hello Beavah, I think you describe "The spirit of Scouting" very well in your post. Well done!

What I see is constant tension between applying BSA rules literally and using them as a guide that may need some judgement in applying them. I feel that tension myself. I try to identify BSA rules and guidelines and to use those in most cases, because usually they provide excellent solutions to the issues they discuss. Other times I may bend or break those rules when there seems to be good reason for doing so. Advancement rules have more wiggle room than safety rules for me, for example. I relate strongly to the idea that advancement is one of the eight methods of Boy Scouting, and my aim is primarily to promote those methods. So for me, if three Scouts have been held up from getting Tenderfoot for three years because they can't do a pullup, I'd look for a way to pass them and expect to find one. A Life Scout striking for Eagle I would hold to higher standards. Being a Scout Leader to me involves making wise judgments in dealing with boys, not in simply applying rigid rules. Of course, sometimes wise judgment involves applying rules rigidly too!

Scouts, packs and troops participate in a 4th of July Parade each year. This year I decided to see what I could do about using the parade as a recruiting vehicle for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. The council printed up 500 copies of a simple flyer I could use. Each flyer was a quarter of an 8x11" sheet. It contained a simple invitation to join Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts and provided the beascout.org website as a way of locating a Scout unit. Secondarily, it supplied my name, phone number and e-mail address as the district membership chair with an invitation for people to contact me for help finding a unit. I recruited Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts to hand out leaflets and invite people to join Scouting. I also did my own pitch on one side of the parade route to evry boy of Scouting age as I went along. My usual pitch was to ask boys if they would like to go hiking and camping, and secondarily if they would like to shoot BBguns and bows and arrows. Older boys I asked if they'd like to go backpacking and bicycle camping with the Boy Scouts. Usually the parents were right there to hear the pitch as well, especially for Cub Scout age boys. We distributed about 250 of the flyers during the parade. The rest I will use for other recruiting activities as needed. No calls yet. Anyone else use parades for recruiting? If so, what methods do you use?

Hello Baden P, I don't get that impression of desperation at all. I see a young man using this discussion board for it's intended purposes, asking a broad audience for information and advice and sharing experiences in return.

Socializing is what public schools boast about since they often do a lousy job of educating children.

I have to admit that in planning the program for my pack, I planned all our activities to be local. My theory is that Cub Scouts can have a cracking good time with local activities and it's expensive and just not necessary to do a lot of driving to have a good program. Of course dens, and Webelos Dens in particular, can plan more adventurous activities if they wish, and I'd like to see Webelos Dens do just that --- the boys are ready for more adventurous activities. My impression is that most parents are happy not to be doing more driving. And there are lots of things to do --- I don't see that as compromising the quality of the program.

Hello Jgood, Sorry you weren't hired, and I wish you the best for the next time? Any other hot prospects, or warm ones?

Hello two cub, > There is no such thing as a "paper member." There are fraudulent applications that don't enroll real boys, aren't signed by real parents, aren't signed by unit leaders or aren't paid for with real dollars. I wasn't suggesting any of that. You are reading into this issues that aren't there.

I wonder what the parents did with their week once they had dropped both kids off at Scout Camp?

I've been Unit Commissioner for a pack since 2004, when I helped rebuild a pack that had collapsed after the "Cubmaster Who Does Everything" left. We rebuilt that pack program pretty much from scratch. The program we created then is still repeated now in a lot of ways, but the program has grown and improved over the years. For several years, none of the Cub Scouts attended day camp. I solicited the excellent Day Camp Director to come in and make a presentation promoting day camp along with several Cub Scouts he brought with him. That caused regular day camp attendance by most of the boys in the pack ever since. This year a parent began promoting the Cub Scout Resident camp, an excellent program that offer three nights and four days of Cub Scouting. Nineteen Cub Scouts will be attending the resident camp this year. So what are your experiences with how your Cub Scout program changes and grows over time? Who tends to come up with the ideas and how are they sold and received by parents?

> Of course it doesn't. The first time the Supreme Court ruled an act of Congress unconstitutional was Marbury vs Madison in 1803. The second time was the Dredd Scott case in 1857, 54 years later. (A case that materially helped start the Civil War). Now Federal Courts parse huge numbers of executive branch decisions and Congressional laws. Every Federal judge stands ready to make his own interpretation of the constitution should he have an opportunity to do so. The Federal Courts make their own law on issues like abortion, establishment of religion and pornography, and they can depend on people and institutions bringing cases to allow them to enforce those decisions. We have eleven million illegal immigrants in this country most of them not being disturbed by Federal enforcement actions. But a kid making a high school commencement speech can pretty much depend on being hauled before a Federal judge should he have the temerity to include a prayer in his speech. You need to look at how things actually work, not to be distracted by some elaborate theory that functions to deceive people.

I agree with Shortridge. Never heard of that one before. I would certainly encourage a Webelos Den to consider attending a Cub Scout Resident Camp together as a den. Around here the Cub Scout Resident Camp is three nights and four days of camping. That sounds about right for most Webelos. Just out of curiosity, did issues tend to multiply after four days and three nights? My experience with Boy Scout Camp is that interpersonal issues do tend to multiply late in the week. Issues that boys can contain for a few days tend to get worse or explode into problems late in the week. That would support my bias that Webelos are too young for Boy Scout camp, by and large. Also, Boy Scout Camp should be a fresh experience for new Boy Scouts. If they have already had that experience, they will probably get bored with it earlier. In my district we offer a Tiger Cub Camp for new Tiger Cubs for two evenings and a Friday afternoon with the older Cubs. Wolves and Bears can then experience Cub Scout Daycamp and have a suitable experience. My bias would be to send Webelos I & II to the council Cub Scout Resident Camp, again providing a fresh and age appropriate experience. Then --- Boy Scout Camp for Boy Scouts! That would be my preference and bias.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Well, apparently it seems dishonest to YOU, anyway. But in fact, nothing dishonest would be done. No one would be lying, cheating or stealing. If I put two applications in front of you, one of which met your metaphysical standards and the other which did not, you would have no way to distinguish between them. As you are aware, very often on this board people say they have been TOLD that Scouting requires that they do thus and such. The very common reply to such claims is to ask people making such claims to show you a BSA rule requiring such behavior. You have already acknowledged that there is no such rule. You are left with your feelings and prejudices to support your opinion. You are entitled to those if you wish, but you aren't entitled to foist your feelings off as the standard for ethical behavior.

> Heh, heh! Maybe this is why sheath knives are discouraged in Scouting... Interesting discussion.

>"Can you point out any BSA rule that would rule out accepting such an application for membership?"> Thank you. > You are certainly entitled to your own prejudices. That's what they are.

I'm now considering the idea that a troop trailer is a necessity because you need a place to hang your water heater and shower. I'm still trying to decide how this squares with the boys who spend a week at camp without taking a shower or changing their shorts though!

Hello Scout Nut, So here we have BSA application "A." It is signed by a real parent for a real boy and paid for with real dollars. Is this an application you'd accept or not? Can you point out any BSA rule that would rule out accepting such an application for membership?

It's nice to get a picture of one of our friends on this board once in a while, so I'm pleased to be able to post a picture of one of our mightiest leaders, together with pictures of others in his Troop. I'm sure they stay at least 300 feet apart at night while sleeping. https://www.google.com/search?q=kudu&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6Ya&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YGryT7HNMdSzqQGJ_pSPAg&ved=0CGYQsAQ&biw=800&bih=466