SeattlePioneer

Hello dkurtenbach, This task is more of an art form than I ever would have guessed.

I'm with Acco. Personally I think the investment of large amounts of money in Disneyland theme parks is overdone. National seems to have very well snagging donations to such projects, but that raises the issue of how these investments will be maintained. Secondly, if National spent time recruiting donors for local camps, perhaps regular Scout camps would be better maintained and have higher quality programs. (CITs teaching Merit badges and even Trail to First Class --- reallllly.)

How 'bout having a "Scouting" Merit Badge that describes in some detail the volunteer and professional opportunities in Scouting? What kinds of requirement might be suitable for a Scouting Merit Badge?

Mmmmmm. Personally, I never made those rules as Scoutmaster for five years. I am not aware that Scouts brought the whole candy store or soda fountain with them. If they did, I didn't see it. Generally I think pretty much any amount of junk food was gone after a couple of days in camp. If a Scout showed up with loads of gear we didn't have room for, I suppose he would have had to sort it out then and there. Never had that problem circa 1982-87 though. Flip flops might have been deemed a safety hazard and boots required unless you were sitting around camp or on your way to the shower. Sun burn isn't usually that much of a hazard around Western Washington. I can't recall anyone being badly sunburned at camp, ever. It could certainly be a serious issue in many parts of the country. Even were that the case, I'm not sure I'd make a rule about it. I might well have a reminder session about the hazards of sunburn and ask Scouts to explain the methods they would use to protect themselves from that hazard. That might be sun block, suitable clothing like a hat, or making a point of staying out of the sun during the middle of the day. Scouts would choose the methods they wanted to use, and might arrange to borrow sun block if they had neglected to bring it. If someone got burned after that, I might have them explain to other Scouts why it happened and what they would do in the future to protect themselves better. > Ummm. If you sign up for a geocaching camporee, we would be doing geocaching. That would be the program. By and large my aim would be to make the Scout responsible, not the parent. Scouts might suffer sometimes from poor decision making. They might be aided by getting a garbage bag to wear if they brought no rain gear, or plastic bags to put over their feet if they made a poor choice of shoes. But absent an actual safety hazard (as opposed to discomfort) Scouts were largely responsible for themselves. Patrol Leaders might take additional steps. New Scouts might get an equipment inspection the meeting before a trip. That was to educate them on what to bring and why and give them a chance to improve on what they were planning to bring. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hello Basement, In the past four years we've had zero Cub Scout/Webelos on Boy Scout outings. Last month was the first time I attended the Troop Committee meeting. The Patrol Leader Council agreed to invite the Webelos on that hike, a Troop Committee member attended council training on recruiting Boy Scouts and I've worked with him to propose a Troop fall recruiting effort at the Troop Committee meeting Wednesday evening. Am I a HORRIBLE Unit Commissioner? We shall see, I suppose.

There are LOTS of methodologies out there for recruiting Latinos. You've mentioned several, including the soccer and Scouting program. I need a particular type of method that will apply to my area and my pack. To do that, I had to discover a variety of resources and methods. My council paid for national membership trainers to come in and provide membership training in early June. One of their major program elements was how to recruit minorities, and their ideas were very helpful to me. I wont know how successful I am until our fall recruiting night, but I think I've got some good ideas. Even after that, the next major issue is keeping the interest and support of Latino families ---as big an issue if not more than recruiting them in the first place. Indeed, as a district membership chair, my experience is that pretty much every unit needs to customize their recruiting program to fit their particular situation. In short, my experience contradicts your criticisms. The problem is that National can have a million good ideas but that doesn't do much good if units aren't interested in trying them out and adapting them to their own needs. That's one of my jobs as district membership chair, and it's difficult for me to do. I'll give you an example of how I try to do that in an e-mail I sent out earlier today: "Hello District Cub Scout Leaders, There is no Roundtable in July. Our August Roundtable will be Thursday, August 9th from 7:30-8:30 PM. We will be featuring a model Cub Scout Recruiting night that will have loads of ideas on how to plan for a succesful Cub Scout pack recruiting night this fall. It will feature our terrific "Stomp Bottle Rocket Launch" which allows parents and Cub Scouts to build model rockets that are launched by stomping on a two liter soda pop bottle! It's great fun, and Cub Scout leaders are invited to bring their Cub Scouts to this event to see whose rocket goes the farthest and highest! Take the time to plan a date for your fall recruiting night so it can be included on our District calendar. We are also planning on having an ice cream social as part of our August 9th Roundtable to get the new Cub Scout year started with another fun activity! This would also be a fine event to use to recruit a Pack Membership Chair who can take responsibility for organizing your recruiting night. Invite them to bring their Cub Scout to the rocket launch and ice cream social --- after all, it's designed to be a recruiting night! Best," That's not to be critical of unit leaders, who are usually overwhelmed with things to do. They (we) have to make choices about what we spend our time on. What you see above is my best effort ever of trying to make learning about effective recruiting methods worthwhile and fun for unit leaders. I started doing these recruiting kickoffs as part of a council effort to promote that kind of activity in 2005. After eight years of experience and development, my methods are much improved.

Hello Eagledad, > Excellent post! I've been making a real effort in my pack and district to get Troops to take more responsibility for helping packs. I have a troop that invited our Webelos den on a mountain hike this Saturday. The Webelos Den Leader has other plans. I've e-mailed Wedbelos den parents encouraging participation and offering to help with equipment and connecting up with the troop. It's a challenge! It's a new idea, that kind of cooperation, so neither the troop or pack are used to doing it yet. I recently got myself appointed as the Troop Unit Commissioner, so I'm attending Troop Committee meetings and working to get the troop-pack relationship more developed. But I'm convinced it the kind of thing we need to do, and usually do not do.

Hello Baden P,

> Heh, heh! I never even thought of that one before!

> Yabbut WHY? I'd say that often that's because the WEBELOS Den Leader has a program of age appropriate den hiking and camping and reasonably close association with the program of one or more Boy Scout troops. I would say that a WDL who is an experienced outdoor person or former Boy Scout has a real leg up in carrying out that kind of program. (One of the unstated purposes of the Scouting is to produce the next generation of Cub Scout and Boy Scout leaders!)

The two most valuable things I learned from this thread is the idea of using staples to hold a patch in place and catching the thread wrapping the patch rather than going through the whole patch. I'm thinking of a Tiger Cub activity that would give Tiger Cubs the chance to sew a button onto something while their parent partners practice sewing a patch onto something. Some parents are skilled with a needle and thread, others not. Showing Cub Scouts and parents good ways to sew on badges seems like a good thing. I'd also consider asking one of those skilled people to bring in a sewing machine to help sew on badges once in a while. Now.... what could be used as a project that a Tiger Cub would need to sew on button on to complete? Temporary patches often have a loop that will fit around a button --- maybe you could add a button for that kind of purpose.

So..... No FOS solicitations at the ECOH either, I suppose?

Hello Eagle92, My favorite case study was a family I encountered that had two very charming and precocious children along with a very charming and precocious wife. She said that she home schooled her children while her husband was a high official in the state teacher's association! I thought that was very amusing.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Why?

> The problem is that too many Webelos Den Leaders treat Webelos as another year of Cub Scouts. They don't recognize that boys are ready for something more ambitious and that the Webelos years should be treated as a transition to Boy Scouts. The Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills (IOLS) training which is outdoor skills training for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters should have a component of that training for Webelos Den Leaders, although it's poorly attended in my district. A motivated WDL who knows what they should be doing can probably find the means to do the job. A WDL with substantial backpacking, climbing, hunting or military experience probably has the skills and confidence to make those Webelos years exciting. An untrained person who thinks they should be repeating the Bear year of Cub Scouts probably doesn't have a clue.

Hello bnelon44, I agree that when FC1Y is described as a general goal, it's a good thing. If it's used as a rigid program, not so much. My Council Membership Chair has limited experience in Boy Scouts and no experience as a SM, but she repeatedly has promoted FC1Y as THE goal for troops. She just buys into it as a principle method of retaining Boy Scouts as suggested by BSA. That's all too common in my experience.

One of my theories is that Scout Troops, perhaps even Cub Packs could make some good money by offering their services doing flag ceremonies for a fee, or perhaps just for donations. Suppose a troop worked up a snappy flag ceremony, with everyone in a nice uniform and a Troop Bugler sounding "To the Colors." Send letters out to corporations, businesses and other groups offering that service for a fee or for donations. I'm guessing that a corporation that had a Boy Scout Troop do a flag ceremony for their annual meeting might have a CEO willing to make a generous donations for a snappy ceremony.

> I didn't when I was SM. Like Wood Badge, it's really not something that needs to be heavily promoted, in my opinion. My nephews aged out of Boy Scouts as Life and 1st Class Scouts. I never discussed Eagle with either of them. They were perfectly capable of deciding what they wanted to do. They both enjoyed doing a fifty miler each year, for example.

So is it happenstance or is there a method to your method?

Besides Cub Scout Day Camp. a visit to a fire station or police department is often an opportunity to practice an outdoor flag ceremony since a flag pole is usually available. Also, an outdoor flag ceremony needn't involve running a flag up a flag pole. My personal bias is to give credit when a Cub Scout has had an active role of some kind in a flag ceremony. My experience is that most boys are eager to have that kind of experience and would be disappointed if they didn't get it. But if that's not the standard other units have, that's fine. I'm guessing that might be because Den Leaders don't have much in the way of flag ceremony skills and are reluctant to put those skimpy skills on display?

Hello 5 year,

I know that as a Scoutmaster thirty years ago, my goal for Scouts wasn't Eagle. And my goal for troop advancement wasn't Eagle either. My goal for youth advancement was to encourage and support the trail to First Class. Our promise to boys entering the troop was to make them competent hikers and campers, which was encompassed by the Trail to First Class. So my goal was to enable and support Scouts in achieving First Class. It wasn't my job to make them get First Class, they still had to be motivated to do the work. But I insured that the program made that possible and encouraged it. But Scouts set their own goals, not me. A boy who was happy with First Class didn't get nagged by me, and a boy who needed some support and encouragement to earn Eagle would have my support for his goal. That's always been my attitude, anyway.

Maybe Scouting has had it right all along:

> The problem is that BSA is over reacting to the present environment by having draconian, hair trigger YPT policies which everyone is trained in and expected to follow. > Yep, you probably are. It may be years or decades before those good intentions explode in people's faces. The alternative is to follow the policies we've been trained in and put the responsibility on the people who are supposed to have it. This is really no different than the sexual harassment policies that were adopted twenty years or so ago. A lot of touchy feely stuff and "jokes" that had been going on forever became contrary to public and employer policies and behavior changed. Managers who learned of such behavior but didn't want to report it might well lose their jobs. Employers who ignored such issues faced lawsuits for millions. What's so wrong about reporting this kind of issue to a Scout Executive? Let them investigate it and take whatever action is deemed appropriate.

At our Cub Scout Day Camp one of our activities the first day will be for each den to participate in an outdoor flag ceremony by doing an outdoor flag ceremony. A flagpole is conveniently available, so groups of three or four Scouts practice running the flag up and down the pole. Folding the flag is part of the practice. Most Scouts regard it as a fun activity.