scoutldr

The last time my sister in law's cell phone rang, I burst into "Kill da wabbit, kill da wabbit..." Strange looks all the way around...

My scouting days are numbered, so I won't be buying either one. I think the old one will be around for many years.

In this council, "no sheath knives" is not an urban legend, it's the rule. Even codified it in the camporee and summer camp leaders' guides. Since most butter knives and cooking knives don't have sheaths, my interpretation is they are permitted. "No liquid fuels for starting fires"...so I guess it's ok to pour it on after the fire is started...? As I said before, my real job involves reading government rules and regulations and interpreting them...and we DO split hairs. BSA needs to learn to write what they mean. It IS possible.

Check eBay for "canoe trailer"...I found one that is configurable for either single or multi-canoes. $800 -1000 depending on options ordered.

Hasn't the BSA defined "active" for us? (Active = registered).

Our camp is routinely rented out to other groups, but to my knowledge, NEVER when it is being used for Scouting. That gets my ire up, as well, especially when the other groups are not held to the "Leave No Trace" standard. I would slightly modify John's advice...have your COR write a strongly worded letter to the Council President who chairs the Council Executive Board. Copy to the SE and the other members of the Executive Board. The Council President is the SE's boss...at least on paper...it was probably the SE who made the decision, not the "Camp". Now the outcome may well be that the SE gets kudos for bringing in the dough... "Money=Priority"...sadly, that's the reality today.

This is the Navy's current policy, issued circa 2003: ® Personal appearance. Because it is impossible to provide examples of every appropriate or unacceptable hairstyle or of "conservative" or "eccentric" grooming and personal appearance, the good judgement of leaders at all levels is key to enforcement of Navy grooming policy. Therefore, hair/grooming/personal appearance while in uniform shall present a neat, professional appearance. (a) Tattoos/body art/brands. No tattoos/body art/brands on the head, face, neck, or scalp. Tattoos/body art/brands elsewhere on the body that are prejudicial to good order, discipline and morale or are of a nature to bring discredit upon the Navy are prohibited. For example, tattoos/body art/brands that are excessive, obscene, sexually explicit or advocate or symbolize sex, gender, racial, religious, ethnic or national origin discrimination are prohibited. In addition, tattoos/body art/brands that advocate or symbolize gang affiliation, supremacist or extremist groups, or drug use are prohibited. Tattoos/body art/brands will not be visible through uniform clothing. Waivers may be requested for prior service and existing tattoos from the Chief of Naval Operations. (a) Mutilation. Intentional body mutilation, piercing, branding/intentional scarring that are excessive or eccentric are prohibited. Some examples are: (1) a split or forked tongue; (2) foreign objects inserted under the skin to create a design or pattern; (3) enlarged or stretched out holes in the ears (other than a normal piercing). (4) intentional scarring that appears on the neck, face, or scalp. Waivers may be requested for prior service and existing body mutilation, piercing, branding/intentional scarring from the Chief of Naval Operations. (a) Dental ornamentation. The use of gold, platinum or other veneers or caps for purposes of ornamentation are prohibited. Teeth, whether natural, capped or veneer, will not be ornamented with designs, jewels, initials, etc. Waivers may be requested for prior service and existing dental ornamentation from the chief of naval operations (n09bu)." The above policy guidance will also be included in the civilian clothing policy, article 7101. PS: Since Naval Academy students are considered active duty Naval Officers with the rank of "Midshipman", I believe this same regulation would apply to them, as well. Those who cannot comply with the regulation would probably not be eligible for an appointment.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

If you accept the premise that camp staffers are "employees", would it be legal to discriminate based on gender (or age, religion, etc). OK, the lightbulb just went on. Staffers must be registered members of BSA in order to legally keep gays and atheists out of staff positions. DUH~

There is a "Camp Staff position"...it's called "Employee" and there is a position patch for uniform wear. Folks in the Scout Shop wear it.

"The BSA Red Cross is the leader" Huh?

It probably varies from state to state, but is this a way to avoid paying minimum wage to camp staffers? Pay for 40 hrs...the "overtime" is donated volunteer time. Just a thought. I agree, it sounds like a scam to inflate the membership numbers. There's more than one way to make Quality Council.

I think the kids already have an avenue for this, called "Alpha Phi Omega". As I recall it emerged from the "Knights of Dunamis", and became an independent (of BSA) organization and now anyone can join, just like any other fraternity/sorority. I'm guessing that the only difference from your idea is that they are not registered BSA members. Perhaps WildernessStudent or Hops can fill in details.

Cheerful, what's it to ya? Also, physically fit. Bad genes ;-)

When I made Eagle in 1970, I was a member of an Explorer Post and our CO was a VFD/Rescue Squad. SO this hits close to home for me. I have seen Life scouts who do nothing with their lives, except for go to a scout meeting once a week, go camping once in awhile and play video games. I have also seen Life scouts who spend their "free time" taking training such as Basic Firefighting, Standard and Advanced First Aid, CPR, Water Safety Instructor, Vehicle Extrication, Heavy Duty Rescue, Advanced Cardiac Life Support, etc. Who better exemplifies "live the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life"? Who would you rather have living next door? "...to help other people at all times"..."to keep myself physically fit, mentally awake and morally straight"..."Be Prepared". Seems clear to me.

The actual language on the BSA Jambo web site is "Be able to serve as a role model for physical fitness." This requirement is for Scoutmasters and Assistants. Additionally, complete a Class III physical. It will be interesting to see how this is interpreted and enforced. Sorry, John, didn't mean to snipe at you.

The lawyers here can correct me, but I was under the impression that, in most if not all states, spouses cannot be compelled to testify against each other, and are generally not considered to be capable of unbiased testimony.

OK, all you perfect role models can have it. That eliminates 95% of the scouters I know. If that's going to be their standard, then I don't think smokers should be allowed, either. But that's just me. I don't "look" physically fit, but all my lab results are outstanding, I can swim for miles with technique better than most, and can hang in the heat and humidity with the best (I'm "from here", you know, and even prefer it to A/C). I'm just not "pretty" on TV. I apologize for hijacking the thread...it was not intentional. I'm done.

I think what the others have said is that there IS a process. You have found it and initiated it. The DC is approved by the Council Commissioner. Your COR should exercise his ex officio position on the District Committee and file the complaint to the District Chairman. Then the District Chair exercises HIS position and talks to the Council Commissioner and/or Council President. That's the chain of command, as I understand it. There is no other "official process", unless it's a Youth Protection issue, in which case you go directly to the Scout Executive...confidentially.

When I read that adults applying for the 2010 Jambo had to have WB21 AND be the epitome of physical fitness (or whatever terms they used), I abandoned my thoughts of applying. When the emphasis is on appearances and PR rather than serving youth, it's time to go do something else. Someone else can go and look pretty for the media. Too bad they don't send a camera crew to shadow a Philmont or Boundary Waters trek...now that's Scouting Reality! The Jambo is just a high-priced circus, IMHO. Instead of us old farts lamenting the "good ole days", perhaps it's time to let go and admit defeat. Reminds me of why my Dad decided to retire from the Navy in 1964, and why I've decided to retire from my govt bureaucrat job at the earliest opportunity (Oct 1, 2010). Too many idiots to deal with and it's just not fun any more.

The other side: http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/?pageId=1156 When I was a kid, I was just "fat". Now I have "metabolic syndrome", and was put on a cocktail of drugs that damn near killed me. Now I just accept the fact that I will never be 6 foot 2 and 180 lbs. Neither were my parents or grandparents. I come from a long line of short, fat Pennsylvania Dutchmen. And at age 53, people still call me names and make fun of my "man-boobs"(can I say that?), the embarrassment of which I've suffered with since I was six. I have to live with ignorant people every day...and get over it.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

"Then again I may not understand the whole purpose. I know about cheerfull service, but rarely do I see it displayed, rather I see elitist attitudes by those who are not close to elite anything. Then again, its my opinion, I may be wrong" That's what I used to say about Wood Badge...before I met you guys! Just kidding. The traditions of the OA are rich and historical. I was elected in 1968. Back then, the Lodge was active, and wearing the flap was considered a high honor. We went to OA functions "on our own", not as a troop. We worked our butts off for the camp, raised funds and built some of the buildings. We were the primary source for camp staff. We were truly "brothers", like a fraternity, and bonded lifelong friendships across the Council and the country. Today it seems the OA has lost it's shine. I've had scouts called out and never bother to go to the Ordeal (adults, too). No one goes to chapter meetings, unless we call and remind them, AND pick them up. Lodge-wide, participation is low. 80% of the members are just "flap-wearers" and have no other participation. What did OA do for me? Even after a 30 year professional career, I sometimes stop myself and hear that little voice... "even in the midst of irksome tasks and weighty responsibilities"...then I continue on with a new attitude.

I had a parent come to me last year and say " is going to spend the summer with his grandpa, who is a 'Commissioner'. Is it OK if they work on scout stuff?" I said OK to the rank requirements (which I would have verified), but had to remind them that Grandpa had to be a registered MBC in order to sign off merit badges. Never heard any more about it... Another reason is to ensure that the scout is working on an "age appropriate" MB (case by case basis), to avoid disappointment. Some 11 year olds may be able to handle a shotgun...most are not. At our camp, the "Finish First" program is a half day. The other half day we encourage merit badges suitable for first year scouts, such as swimming and basketry. But if a scout wants to do Nuclear Science, we let him.

Over the years, there have been several incarnations of GW. But it seems to me the same person is always on the other side of the bickering. Just an observation. Takes 2 to tango. Am I offended? Naw...I just don't take the bait and run with it. As my office-mate once told me..."without them, we'd just be 'average'"...

A bit of historical trivia...when Cubs first began, the Den Chief WAS the "Den Leader"...the "Den Mother" was there to assist. In my experience, the hurdle is the time commitment, which even the parents balk at. We are asking the scout to attend 3-4 den meetings, a pack meeting, and even CS Roundtable per month IN ADDITION to his troop and maybe OA obligations. Not to mention day camp, resident camp and pack family campouts. That's not a very attractive proposition just to get a POR signed off (i.e., "what's in it for him").

Sorry to be cynical, but has anyone picked up a high school textbook lately? Kids won't read black and white. If they read at all, we have to make it look like a comic book so they can be "entertained"...lots of color pictures.