scoutldr

"Do you think the SM at least has some right to know what's going on with the OA outings for the sake of youth protection?" I agree with the Bear on this one. OA is not a unit activity, it's an individual one. Scouts and Scouters are free to sign up and attend any OA function they want to ... or not. In some cases, our SM will arrange transportation if he is also attending, but if not, it's up to the Scout and his parents to make the arrangements.

The park website emphasizes that this is a "wilderness" area and that "insects can be harsh". I've camped near a salt marsh in the Summer before. Won't do it again. The mosquitoes can carry away your average Tiger cub. Maybe in the fall or spring? Keep in mind that if a young Cub (or his parent) has a miserable first camping experience, he may be lost to Scouting forever. The safety issue is a legitimate one. I would call the Park Ranger and verify emergency medical procedures. They probably have a plan in place.

This horse is dead. We can quit flogging it now.

My two sons weren't "required" to join, but they stayed in just to humor me. Older son made Star and younger made Life. Older one now manages an award winning fine dining restaurant, although he had no formal management training. While discussing various leadership styles and theories last night, I asked him where he learned it..."Scouts" was his immediate answer. While a freshman at Elon College, he called back and said, "Thanks dad...these kids can't do ANYTHING for themselves...they're all rich, but they can't even cook or do their own laundry!" I just smile. A "game with a purpose". It works.

My comment was tongue-in-cheek, I hope you know that. However, it wouldn't surprise me. I was elected in 1970, and things were as they were in the 80's. Elections at troop mtg, TAP-out at camporee, Ordeal in Spring or Fall (NEVER at summer camp). The reality is now that NONE of the troops in my council go to the same camp EVERY year. Most rotate among 3 or 4 (there are about 10 within a 5 hour radius), and most like the mountain climate better than our council climate (coastal humidity, ticks and mosquitoes). This is one of the reasons I resigned from the District Camping Chair job, after a particularly rude public dressing down by the SE for "not supporting YOUR camp". My goal was to get butts in cots, I didn't care what CSP they were wearing. I don't have a problem with the policy, as long as reasonable exceptions can be made (illness, transfers, etc). I'm sorry we didn't have a more favorable answer for erniepyle. I read his biography as a kid...one of my favorite books.

Once the COuncil registrar signs the Eagle application, that certifies that the records are complete and accurate. That is all I look at when I sit on an EBOR. Most scouts have their blue cards in a binder, but I don't waste time checking each one. Only reason for a blue card would be for proof if the Council didn't have a record of it. Believe it or not, some Council records have been found to be, shall we say, incomplete. In my opinion, of course.

I get it, emb. It's more like a punishment for not supporting your Council camp.

Sure does. Thanks. As always, BSA has a real hard time writing what they really mean. After all, the phrase "no exceptions" is pretty clear.

Ahh, Beavah, as always the voice of temperance and moderation. In our school district, athletes get excused absences. Cub Scouts do not. Of course, if your GPA drops, you will no longer be an athlete. I think it's important that we do not send the message that it's ok to ignore school rules, as long as we have fun doing it. I view an unexcused absence as having broken an attendance policy. Also, in our Council, all sites used for Cub camping have to be on the "Council approved" list. Not sure if that's a national rule or not, but might be worth looking into. Another check point would be at the tour permit approval stage.

Luckily, most of us do not live in NY. Another reason not to. What we do in our troop...immediately after the EBOR, we meet with the Eagle and his parents and explain that the "design" of the ECOH is up to them, while maintaining the dignity and respect that it's due. They can have whatever ceremony they want, ranging from "just mail me the medal" (that's happened), to a full-fledged COH with the mayor, Senator, all the relatives, letters from the POTUS, flag over the Capitol, etc. Then the troop PLC and Committee make it happen. We establish a budget and let the parents know how much the troop can contribute towards it. At no time do we imply it's NOT a troop function and the SM/SPL will not be running the show. This discussion has been valuable, in that in the future we will be conscious of the alcohol issue. If the parents want to invite everyone to their home afterwards for a pool/keg party, that's on them and the other parents. When the SPL adjourns the ceremony with a benediction and everyone gets up to leave, it's no longer a "Scouting function". Would I attend the party? Sure...in civilian clothes as a guest, not as a host.

"Out of council Ordeals are not permitted." No exceptions are given. That's going to adversely affect a lot of folks in my council. We are a military community and frequently, a scout will be called out and then dad (or mom) gets transferred. We have always told them they can complete their Ordeal in their new Council. Seems a bit unreasonable to me.

As far as I can tell, having just reviewed the current requirements, a scout who refuses to camp will not make it past "Scout". Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class all require camping. He will not be eligible for OA. I would not approve him to be an SPL or PL, since in order to lead, you have to show up. I guess he could fulfill the POR by being a perennial Librarian, Scribe, or Den Chief (but even Cub Scouts camp once in awhile). So, my question to him would be, "what's the point"? Perhaps his time would be better spent in the Chess Club at school. Edited part: Before I get jumped on with both feet, I realize that Scouting is not ONLY about advancement. Kids can have fun without badges, and I would welcome that, as long as he's not a detrimental influence. Just so he and his parents are clear up front.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Would be interesting to know the actual numbers. Council goals frequently do not reflect reality. My guess is, statistically, there was no change, or even a slight decline, as a lot of councils have experienced. I do know some Scouters in that council, and many still wear the REL CSP. Just as some scouters in our council refused to give up their red and white community strips when they were annexed into our council many many years ago.

I think Scouters are "community organizers". Birth certificates are public records and are hard to fake, why hasn't anyone produced one?

Not sure if this is a National rule, but in our Lodge, you must complete your Ordeal within one year of selection, or you start over (selection is null and void). That goes for both youth and adults. You can complete your Ordeal in a different Lodge, with permission of the Lodge Chiefs. You didn't say if you are a current BSA member, but #1 prerequisite is to be a registered member of a Scout unit, or District/Council level Scouter. Good Luck and welcome to the Forums!

Well, if the parents didn't go along with it, it wouldn't happen. Either start a revolution, or find another Pack. Those are your choices.

John, if common sense were common, we wouldn't have much to talk about here!

Welcome to the forums. I feel the same as you. In my school system, it would be an unexcused absence, and with too many of those, the child has to repeat the grade. Unless your cub is attending a private school with a different schedule, all Pack events should be scheduled so as to avoid conflicts with school calendars, holidays, religious observances, etc.

I, too respect the Judge's opinion. Could he elaborate as to what statute would be violated?

This is a tough one. I think the first "misstep" was agreeing to have the ECOH, a troop function, at the home of the scout. If it were, say, at the troop's normal meeting place, a simple cake and punch reception, hosted by the troop, could follow. Then if the scout's parents wanted to have a blow-out at their home, more power to them...just make it clear that it's being hosted by the parents, not the troop. Unfortunately, when you agreed to move the troop ECOH to their home, you lost control. The parents are within their rights to tell you to "get bent" if you try to enforce BSA rules in their home.

Pack, just goes to prove that the Govt can't be all things for all people. A concept the Democrat party seems to ignore.

Pack, there is now a law called COBRA, which addresses situations like yours. It enables continuation of health benefits when one is "between positions"... I think that is a good law, as I am not for the Darwinian approach in such situations. I am for the Govt providing incentives to employers to continue to offer health benefits to valued employees who are working their butts off to provide for their families...a value that is lacking in many communities. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

I agree, we should not criticize those who make different life choices than we do. Just don't ask me to pay for it when it turns out your choice was not very smart. Following what Lisabob had to say in the other thread, I wish everyone made choices that enabled them to be successful and to be able to provide for their families. BUt where does it say that the taxpayer should make sure that your choices don't cause you or your family any pain? Rather than argue over whether health care (or education, or welfare, or add social program here) is a "right" or not, should we not be addressing the root causes? Why aren't kids staying in school long enough to be able to get good jobs that provide health benefits? Why are teenaged mothers having 4 kids before they're old enough to vote? Why aren't the deadbeat dads (and moms) being held accountable? Why is welfare being provided to those able-bodied who simply refuse to work, but yet can afford cigarettes, booze,cell phones and designer jeans? I choose to support scouting because it strives to instill values on how to be responsible citizens and make ethical choices...THAT's the solution, in my opinion. Unfortunately, the majority of those we reach would turn out ok anyway...we're not reaching those at risk. I'm not a hard-a**, really...I am just having enough trouble supporting my own family (which now includes my MIL), and as I approach retirement, I really don't have the resources or the inclination to support anyone else's. My wife and I put two sons through college without ANY assistance, and there isn't a whole lot left for us in our "golden years" (yes, I will get a "cushy" federal pension of about $1400 a month, plus my own savings, and my health insurance premiums will continue). Those who feel that others are worthy of their hard earned money, are free to stroke a check to the charity of their choice. Find a family without health insurance and pay their premiums for them. Or if you want to remain anonymous, start a "health insurance" fund through your church. They did that with Credit Unions, so What's stopping you? I think God would be pleased with that. Perhaps the BSA could provide low cost health insurance to registered volunteers in need? Why does the Government need to be involved??? Before anyone wonders, I do contribute a significant amount every paycheck to charity...to the tune of thousands of dollars a year. But charity should be something that WE choose to give with the amount and beneficiary of OUR choosing, according to our hearts...not something that the Govt extracts from our paychecks without even asking. The only "rights" we are born with are the right to life, liberty, and to "pursue" happiness and success. What you do with that right is up to you.

"I have good insurance and I'll keep it. Why not allow regular folks to subscribe to the health care plan the Congress has? Good enough for our government folks, ought to be good enough for everyone else." Call me a cynic, but as soon as there is National Health Insurance, your employers will be dropping their health plans like hot potatoes. It is a major expense for employers, and really cuts into their profits. Congress has the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan, of which I am also a member, as a federal employee. It is NOT free, I pay about $200 every pay day (biweekly) for "self and family", and can choose from a number of commercial insurance plans ranging from an HMO to Blue Cross/Blue Shield high option. Unfortunately, my "family" has gone from 4 to 2, but I still pay the same to subsidize those with 6 kids. The government subsidizes that premium, as an employee benefit, just like any number of any other employers offer. I resent the fact that you want to offer MY employee benefit to anyone who wants it. What benefits does YOUR employer offer, perhaps I want those for me and my family, too, even though I haven't earned them.

I'm lucky...I had two of those "one percenters". The oldest just turned 30 and came when I was a grad student and had no health insurance.