scoutldr

Good point, pack. I was assuming that the DAC was anticipating the upcoming EBOR on which he would be sitting, and trying to plot out what to do following the "no" vote. After re-reading the thread, I'm not sure either. But that doesn't change my position.

"In this case, the leader knows something without doubt. There was a crime. There was a confession. There was an apology." If this is indeed true, then there should not be an EBOR. The SM should not sign the application because all of the requirements have not been met, to wit, Scout Spirit. When you knowingly commit a criminal or immoral act, you should permanently forfeit your right to be held up as a role model to all other scouts. When the SM signs the application, he is certifying, on HIS honor, to the EBOR, the Council, the National Council (and to ALL the Eagle Scouts who have come before), and to the general public, that "this Scout is worthy of Scouting's highest honor, the title of Eagle Scout." Someone asked me in a previous post why my Scouting career is coming to a close...this type of thing is in the top 10 reasons. I have witnessed more than one instance lately where the term "Eagle Scout" is a joke. It no longer has prestige and honor to those who receive it...just another resume entry...check the block and move on to the next spoonfeeding. Harsh, maybe...but as a Scout and Scouter since 1963, those are my thoughts.

What amazes me is that a scout can commit crimes and still think they deserve the Eagle. When did we (parents) stop teaching shame and humility? I'm sick of the pervasive attitude that "I'm special, you need to give me what I want regardless of what the rules say."

This illustrates one of the pitfalls of waiting until a scout is near 18 before finishing. Since ALL requirements except the BOR MUST be completed before the 18th birthday, there is no time to go back and re-do requirements, including "Scout Spirit". My opinion is, it's in the hands of the BOR now. The decision must be unanimous. If he doesn't like the outcome, he can appeal the decision. Even if it were allowed, not sure what he could do in a 60 day period to change their minds.

Never really gave it much thought...my scouts complteted it at summer camp.

To my knowledge, I've never been moderated or "ignored", except by my wife and kids. I must not be doing it right.

How many DEs out there actually sit down and meet with every CO in their district to remind them (cordially) of their responsibilities? Isn't that one of their job requirements? How many Unit Commissioners include the CO and COR unit relationship when they are "inspecting" the unit's health? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

"First you will need to get rid of all the lawyers" Well, that's a good start. (Sorry, Beavah! ) Our situation is very similar to Gern's except he gets a closet! I'm jealous! We have to rent a storage unit. Our CO even asked us not to turn on the heat in the winter because it cost them money. I can see the pros and cons. Since the BSA can use to CO to shift liability, it probably won't change.

I guess I'm OK...I like white rice AND black beans...together, even.

Beavah said, "So a move to "local option" has zero legal effect. The liability is always on da CO, regardless." The reality is that most CO's don't understand this, due to slick talking DEs whose main priority is to get a new unit going so they can stay employed for another year. I dare say that if all COs were made fully aware of their liabilities and held accountable for their obligations under the charter agreement, a lot of units would be sent packing, including my own. I think it is for the BSA to issue joining requirements, then point at the CO as the bad guy when it hits the fan. Maybe this whole rhubarb would be avoided if BSA would abandon the "chartering organization" concept and take over control of the units, as the GSUSA did. I think the whole concept is confusing and frought with incongruities. B-P's concept, if I remember correctly, was to issue a "warrant" to the Scoutmaster, which empowered him to form and operate a scout group.

I don't remember reading anything about restaurants in the Constitution.

From a distance (as in the photo), it doesn't look much different except for the green loops and unit numerals. Still a definite "dork" factor. Maybe it's the necker... Well, as my Scouting days come to a close, I won't be investing in one.

We have ONE who attends regularly, out of about 50 units.

Don't believe I've ever been to one. 1. The District Chairman should set the agenda and run the meeting (NOT the DE) and distribute it ahead of time. 2. Have the program chairs submit their reports ahead of time and distribute them with the agenda. Everyone should be expected to read the reports ahead of time and be prepared to approve/disapprove. 3. Roberts' Rules are too complex for small groups of mere mortals. Unless you have an experienced parliamentarian on board. 4. Make sure all of the COR's are there. They are the only ones who represent the Units to the District and Council. 5. Don't do the program committees' work at the table. If something is undone, give it back to the program chair to resolve and bring back a recommendation. 6. Set a time limit (e.g., 90 minutes) and STRICTLY enforce it. Start and end ON TIME...ALWAYS. 7. COntrol the DE. His/her time is at the end of the meeting ("Executive's Minute") 8. In addition to running the District, the District Chair should attend all Council meetings and represent the will of the District Committee. 9. Did I mention END ON TIME?

I think it's more about hypocrisy. There are those among us who steadfastly denounce gays and atheists as exemplifying the worst role models, while calling others names (the yiddish word for the male member), desecrate their bodies (smokers and obese), commit adultery, eat shrimp and pork, you name it. I call them "cafeteria scouters"...ignore the parts of the Scout Law and Oath that don't match your particular lifestyle, while loudly condemning others who do the same. After having to care for my MIL who is in terminal COPD and heart disease (and now diabetic, too) from 70 years of smoking, I wouldn't let my kids go camping with a smoker, either. I don't want kids exposed to that kind of role model. Her son and daughter smoke and now her 14 yo grandson smokes. Go figure...Kids do learn by example. No, I'm not perfect, I'm obese. And after 4 months of diverticulitis and surgery, I'm working on it...not to be a better role model, but because it's the right thing to do as I don't want to be a burden to others during however many more years I have left.

I am Lutheran. We don't have a sign on the front door of the church that says "Atheists and Homos Keep Out!" All sinners are welcome, in the hopes that they will find something of value inside.

Then there's the elephant in the living room...the fact that if the BSA changed it's policy, the financial fallout from the major denominations withdrawing their support (the LDS and Methodists being the largest), would be a fatal blow.

That's a tough one. As a former District Trainer, I have had a wide range of student abilities, ranging from 18 yo high school students to MDs and PhDs, and all the blue collars and white collars and soccer moms in between. In my professsion, I have had a lot of experience in developing training and teaching adults, so I try not to "talk down" to anyone, but if there are questions, make sure they get answered before they leave, even if it meant "staying after class". It is challenging, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think the BSA materials are at the appropriate level, I just had issues with time...they allowed just enough time to read the syllabus and play the videos. Anything more in depth than that, and we ran overtime.

Aw,c'mon, GW...I've seen torn and tattered ones with covers missing go for only $850.

Hi, Tom and welcome to the campfire. I was a CM for 5 years, back in the early 80's. Things have changed a little, but not much. As I learned it, the CM's primary job is to Emcee the Pack meetings. Attend roundtable every month...if they are done well, you will come away with more ideas than you can use. Same goes for the Den Leaders. Your Pack Committee Chair is really the one who runs the business end of the Pack, along with the committee members. Let them figure out the logistics...you and the Den Leaders deliver the program. Best advice I can give...don't attempt to do everything yourself...recruit good people and let them do their thing. FIrst order of business: yearly planning meeting. Use the published themes for each month or do your own. Also have an active summer planned. Biggest mistake Packs and Dens make is to "take the summer off". The boys are paying for a year-round program. Cub Day Camp and Resident Camp are a must. If you have specific questions, let us know. There's probably a gazillion years of experience here on the forum!

Just a wild guess..."politics".

As we are reminded often, we are guests of Terry, the owner of this private forum. The only rights we have are those which he chooses to grant to us. If we want freedom of speech, we have the right to start our own forum.

Yes, there is an "Igpay Atinlay" strip, as well as "computerese", "Brooklynese", etc. Check eBay. (all unofficial, of course) I once heard a futurist speak at a conference I was attending. He said we are allowing our kids to waste their time studying French, Spanish, German, Latin, etc. In a few short years, most of the world will be speaking either Arabic or Mandarin Chinese.

This horse is dead! Let's move on! My days are filled with heat, humidity, mosquitoes and smoke from the Great Dismal Swamp peat fires. Makes me want to pitch a tent in the backyard and fire up the ole' Dutch oven!

Perhaps it's time to rotate the moderator jobs? I see nothing wrong with spirited debate, as long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks. Two of our colleagues were "suspended" for a time due to this. One came back immediately following the suspension, another took a long time to come back, but eventually did. The current forum is mild compared to a few years ago. Just remember the British version of the Scout Law..."A Scout is a Friend to all and a Brother to every other Scout." But that doesn't mean we can't disagree without being disagreeable.