scoutldr

It gets feedback to the Troop committee, not just the SM. I know that a BOR can be had at any time for any reason, not just every 6 months. That being said, we don't do it and I don't know anyone who does.

If the colonists had insisted on following all the rules all the time, we'd still be taking highly taxed afternoon tea and speaking British!

While it may not be a requirement, I would insist on another adult (preferably at least one female adult) present whenever youth are present. Two deep, all the time. This is a little more conservative than the "no one on one" rule, but if YOU are concerned about it, then this will help dispel any perception of impropriety.

Being on the East coast, been there done that. The people here keep saying "thank God it's not us", but our thoughts and prayers are with you. I have a friend whose elderly mother lives in East Bernard, and she decided not to evacuate, because of the fiasco with Rita. Took her 8 hours to travel from Houston to Austin and she said, "never again". I hope she's still there. One thing that always impressed me is the the power companies. My FIL worked his entire life for Virginia Power and whenever hurricanes threatened, the caravans of power trucks would head for the affected areas from neighboring states. Wouldn't surprise me if we have trucks headed your way now. I don't think they charge each other for services...but they just chip in and do what needs to be done to restore power for us. After our last hurricane, people were taking them food and drink and stopping just to say "thanks for leaving your families to help us". Stay safe and post when you can...

One of the sermons I remember from my Lutheran Pastor was one on repentance. We are all sinners. We make mistakes. The Lutheran faith encourages public confession and repentance in order to be granted forgiveness. It's not enough to confess and say you're sorry. True repentance means that you confess, apologize and don't do it again. In my opinion, the same should be the standard for Eagle Scout. We should expect scouts to make mistakes, but then to own up to them and make it right, as Beavah proposed. We should also expect that the scout then shun the illegal/immoral/offending behavior and not continue it in his "non-Scouting" life, hoping the EBOR members didn't find out. The scout did not apologize to those he had harmed, nor did he turn away from the offending behavior as evidenced by his on-line presence. He underestimated us old geezers, or was just plain stupid. "On My Honor, I will Do My Best"...those are powerful words, and the scout still wasn't exhibiting that, in my opinion.

Welcome back to the fold, DeanRx. To address one aspect of your self-described "vent", the advancement form. That was to address the practice that some units had (have) of "stockpiling" badges and cards to save them a trip to the Scout Shop OR to preclude getting "burned" because frequently the shop would be out of stock and they didn't want to have a bunch of disappointed boys at the Pack meeting. Been there, done that. The problem was that the paperwork NEVER got filed and when a scout submitted his Eagle app, there was no record of prior ranks or merit badges. So, we have to do the paperwork drill. Not to say that solved the problem altogether, but that was the reason. Not that there was a black market on First Class patches (although you can usually buy whatever you want on eBay).

Gotta raise the BS flag on this one. A truly remorseful and repentant person would have removed all references to the drug culture before his parents, PO and fellow scouts could see it. I wish we could follow up to see if he really DOES remove his name from consideration, or if he's just blowing us off. I suspect he and Mom will continue the battle, and then be incensed when denied formally (I hope!). By the way, Counsellors, would having such things on MySpace be considered a violation of probation?

OGE, that's clear. His goal is to hope the EBOR doesnt' find out about his criminal behavior and get Scouting's highest award anyway. After all, he did produce a $300,000 project. I would be in favor of requiring each Eagle candidate to submit a urine sample. After all, A Scout is Trustworthy, right? Is that why I now have to submit to a criminal background check after 35 years of service? Kid, if you were in the military, you would be immediately discharged and sent home with a bad conduct discharge. No second chances, no excuses. Welcome to life. It's even harder when you're stupid.

In my council, EBOR are done by the units, with a district rep present. In that case, the Troop Committee Chair usually chairs the EBOR and handles getting the references as per Troop custom.

Everyone makes bad choices. When you choose to commit a crime (intent to distribute, no less), you should forfeit the privilege of wearing the Eagle Scout badge. Yes, I googled your "screen name" yesterday too. What I found was not very Scout-like (another life's lesson...your future employers know how to "Google" too). If you want to take the high road, you should just "man-up" and accept that you blew it and not ask the adults on your Eagle Board to compromise Scouting's values. Instead you come here wanting to know if there is any way they can find out? That tells me you still don't "get it".

If I were your SM, and I had reason to believe you are guilty, there would not BE an EBOR, because you have not met what I consider to be the MOST important requirement, Scout Spirit. If you believe you are truly innocent of the charge (and only YOU know for sure), I would request that your EBOR be put on hold until after your court date. If you are found not guilty, then proceed. But with a felony charge and conviction, I would plan on NOT becoming an Eagle Scout. It's not just about merit badges and projects.

scotteng, Not all councils require Local Tour Permits for council/district events.

From the G2SS: Always follow the steps for constructing monkey bridges outlined in the Pioneering merit badge pamphlet. Before beginning the project, inspect your rope, looking at both the inside fibers and inner strands. Know the size and strength of the type of rope you are using, and its safe working load. Monkey bridges should not be constructed higher than 5 feet above flat-surfaced ground nor longer than 40 feet. Initially, beginners should not span more than 25 feet. Know the effect the knots will have in reducing rope strength and the proper care that rope requires. Rope, especially rope carrying a load, should be checked each day before using. Rope carrying a load and left in place tends to become slack from fatigue and will break under stress. Tighten rope as necessary to maintain the integrity of the original construction. Exercise special care when members of the public are allowed to use these monkey bridges. Establish controls when monkey bridges are constructed outside the camp environment. Station Scouts at each end to control access to the bridge. Allow only one adult at a time on the bridge. Never allow unaccompanied children on the bridge. Shut down the bridge when any repairs are being made and do not reopen until the adult leader has approved the repairs. Any activity on rope swings, monkey bridges, slide-for-life, or similar devices that are located over water must comply with Safe Swim Defense.

Got it. It's about the money. The SE and event chairman will make the decision. If materials have been purchased or contracts let (ie, portapotties) refunds might not be realistic. In cases like this, I would think the event would be postponed, rather than cancelled outright. Of course, if there's another Katrina event, ... Just curious...how much money are we talking about? I just saw the latest projected path for Ike, and it looks like it's targeting the same area as Gustav...the TX/LA border. Of course a slight jog in the path now could mean a 500 mile difference when it makes landfall. I'm a little North of you, Eagle92.

Ditto. It's a personal decision. The uniforms I have will last as long as I need them.

I have lived on the Atlantic coast all my life and grew up with hurricanes. With today's modern forecasting, you can pretty much tell a week in advance if you're in the "cone of uncertainty." I just spent the day under Hanna, and until this morning, we thought it would pass directly over us. Instead, she went about 100 miles west of us and, while we got some wind gusts in the 40-50 mph range and a few waves of heavy downpours, it turned out to be "no big deal" as hurricanes go. We've had worse thunderstorms this summer. That's not to say I would have been camping this weekend. Hurricane Floyd went through a few years ago, and we had much the same thing here, but 80 miles away, our Council camp was devastated by a tornado and flash floods. Be Prepared and Safety First. If I were in charge of the event, I would be making my decision to reschedule now, if it looked like there will be inclement weather. Even if you don't get a direct hit, there can be dangerous weather hundreds of miles from the eye. Ike is forecast to re-emerge into the gulf as a Cat 3...nothing to mess with.

Found this on the internet, so I can't attest to the accuracy: An open letter to all adult scout volunteers and good citizens of the United States, Scouting is both a touchstone and stepping stone for scouters both young and old. It touches our lives in ways without measure that can only be appreciated and valued more as time goes on. Scouting has been a part of my life for over forty years here in Mansfield, Ohio my hometown. I have been a cub scout,boy scout, order of the arrow member, explorer scout and adult scout leader. I earned the rank of Eagle Scout and two Catholic scouting awards while a boy scout with Saint Peter's Troop 121 here in Mansfield. I also worked at Camp Avery Hand, our local scout camp, as a staff member and taught camping, cooking and pioneering merit badges. After college I returned to my hometown to start an Optometry practice and raise my two sons. As an adult scout leader I helped start a new cub scout pack at the Discovery School and served as their first cubmaster. Later I became scoutmaster of Saint Peter's Troop 121. I received the Bronze Pelican Award given to Catholic adult scouters for service to the scouting program. I retired from the Troop 121 committee this year after over 25 years. I had hoped to remain active with the Stewards of Camp Avery Hand program. A group of 150 volunteers who donate time and money to our beloved Camp Avery Hand. Or so I thought..... The reality of todays world cannot be denied, less young boys are joining scouting when it's principles and values are needed more now than ever. The Heart of Ohio Council of the Boy Scouts of America like many councils across America have been facing economic problems. We are blessed with two scout camps in our council which covers a nine county area in Central Ohio. Camp Avery Hand near Mansfield and the Firelands Camp near Wakeman Ohio. The executive board of of our council is considering closing Camp Avery Hand unless the local scouters and citizens of Mansfield and the Richland County area can raise over 3 million dollars for endowment funds for the Heart of Ohio Council. In 1991 as scoutmaster I was invited to a board meeting, that is right, you have to be invited, even as an active scoutmaster. At that point in time I expressed my concerns over the council's management of money and possible cuts in programs. I asked questions but got no answers. I was politely told the information was not available. Now in 2007 precious little has changed. There was a recent meeting held of over 50 adult scouters and community leaders here in Mansfield to discuss Camp Avery Hand. Two paid scout executives and one board member from the council was sent to answer questions. I asked only 3 questions. What does it cost to keep Camp Avery Hand open, lights on and buildings heated? No answer. How much does the council have in endowment funds? No answer. How much of the monies are invested in the stock market? No answer. The volunteer scouters deserve better than this. I surfed the Web and found the answers. Every non profit must file a Form 990 with the IRS. It is a non profits version of a 1040. Not only did I find a 990 for the Heart of Ohio Council, with assets listed at over 7 million dollars, but I also found a Heart of Ohio Council Trust at 600,000 dollars. Finally. A peek inside the finances of our council. After reviewing 4 consecutive years of 990 forms, several facts are already apparent. #1 There are 4 milliom dollars in a restricted endowment and 2 million in unrestricted endowment funds. #2 There are large amounts of money invested in the stock market. Millions of dollars at times. #3 There is a 100,000 dollar loan from a board member to the council with 7% interest . #4 200,000 dollars was withdrawn from the main account in 2004 and 200,000 dollars showed up the next year in the "other" trust fund. This in a year we barely broke even. Did we need to post a loss ? #5 The council has spent close to 1 million dollars on a lease for it's office in Ashland, Ohio. What do we have to show for this? ZERO TANGIBLE ASSETS. #6 Salaries are at 50% of the 2 million dollar budget. #7 ZERO of the 990 forms were filed on time. The Heart of Ohio head scout executive Barry Norris, and his executive board members want us to "trust" in their "business expertise" and hand over another 3 million dollars to their endowment funds. Yes, I do believe the council wants to sell camp Avery Hand for "FINANCIAL" reasons. They want a bigger stock portfolio. Endowment, endowment, endowment. Where is this coming from? Check the National Boy Scouts of America website. Read how local councils have been "encouraged" by the national council to create endowment funds for the "future" of scouting. It boasts of over 2.2 billion dollars being held by local councils, not the national council. How much property is a scout troop, or cub pack allowed to own by the national by-laws? ZERO. Is it now the goal of scouting to own the largest endowment fund or investment portfolio? I know. The "future of scouting". But what about todays scouts? What about todays programs? What about todays camps ? DON'T THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER. Go to National BSA website and type in "ombudsman" in the search engine. SORRY NO MATCHES FOR YOUR QUERY. The volunteer adult scouters have no ombudmans service available through the local or national BSA. Colleges and large corporations make this service available to students and employees to help settle disputes when they arise. We are left on our own to struggle with TOP HEAVY, OVERPAID, INEFFECTIVE council boards and executives that like to think they are business and investment experts. Their actions and balance sheets say otherwise. This is far more then just about Camp Avery Hand to me. I believe this is a NATIONAL PROBLEM. I call upon all adult scout leaders across the country to do three things. First, write your local, state and federal representatives and asked for change. We need an ombudsman service independent of local and national BSA control. Second, form a local review committee with an adult scout leader that is a CPA or MBA to independently audit your local councils books. Demand the books be open for independent inspection yearly. Insist they are done on time. Third, support the camps, troops, and packs. Buy equipment for your local troop or pack. Sponser a scout for summer camp. Join your local camps stewardship program or start one if it doesn't have one. We can no longer afford the ineffective corporate mindset with it's TOP DOWN programming or funding. Baden Powell, the founder of scouting, expressed his concerns about having "paid" scouters in the Boy Scout movements early years. History has proven him right. The giant Sequoia tree can stand tall and magestic for over two thousand years. It's true strength and life flow from the lowest level of all. It's roots. We , the volunteer scouters, are the roots. We are the strength and life giving source of the scouting movement. We have a voice that needs to be heard. Yours in scouting, Brian Kleshinski OD

"If they made a BIG blue uniform I'd advocate for us as adult volunteers working with Cub Scouts wearing it since we're working with Cubs and not Boy Scouts" Is the blue/yellow uniform still not an option for female Cub Scouters? The male Cub leaders have always worn the Boy Scout uniform, since originally, they were the ONLY ones eligible to be Cubmasters and Committee members. Females were "Den Mothers", and as the "direct contact" leaders, wore the same colors as the boys.

My boys used to ask, "what will you give me if I clean up my room?". I would answer what my Dad told me, "you get to stay off restriction for one more week, deal?"

What GW describes is correct and "by the book". Unfortunately, the reality is often different. Of course, if the COR were doing his/her job, 510Scouter would not be here asking this question.

"Do you think the SM at least has some right to know what's going on with the OA outings for the sake of youth protection?" I agree with the Bear on this one. OA is not a unit activity, it's an individual one. Scouts and Scouters are free to sign up and attend any OA function they want to ... or not. In some cases, our SM will arrange transportation if he is also attending, but if not, it's up to the Scout and his parents to make the arrangements.

The park website emphasizes that this is a "wilderness" area and that "insects can be harsh". I've camped near a salt marsh in the Summer before. Won't do it again. The mosquitoes can carry away your average Tiger cub. Maybe in the fall or spring? Keep in mind that if a young Cub (or his parent) has a miserable first camping experience, he may be lost to Scouting forever. The safety issue is a legitimate one. I would call the Park Ranger and verify emergency medical procedures. They probably have a plan in place.

This horse is dead. We can quit flogging it now.

My two sons weren't "required" to join, but they stayed in just to humor me. Older son made Star and younger made Life. Older one now manages an award winning fine dining restaurant, although he had no formal management training. While discussing various leadership styles and theories last night, I asked him where he learned it..."Scouts" was his immediate answer. While a freshman at Elon College, he called back and said, "Thanks dad...these kids can't do ANYTHING for themselves...they're all rich, but they can't even cook or do their own laundry!" I just smile. A "game with a purpose". It works.

My comment was tongue-in-cheek, I hope you know that. However, it wouldn't surprise me. I was elected in 1970, and things were as they were in the 80's. Elections at troop mtg, TAP-out at camporee, Ordeal in Spring or Fall (NEVER at summer camp). The reality is now that NONE of the troops in my council go to the same camp EVERY year. Most rotate among 3 or 4 (there are about 10 within a 5 hour radius), and most like the mountain climate better than our council climate (coastal humidity, ticks and mosquitoes). This is one of the reasons I resigned from the District Camping Chair job, after a particularly rude public dressing down by the SE for "not supporting YOUR camp". My goal was to get butts in cots, I didn't care what CSP they were wearing. I don't have a problem with the policy, as long as reasonable exceptions can be made (illness, transfers, etc). I'm sorry we didn't have a more favorable answer for erniepyle. I read his biography as a kid...one of my favorite books.