scoutldr

Been to Guam. Loved the island...hated getting there. Our travel folks put me in the Cliff Hotel up by the Naval Hospital (biggest cucarachas I've ever seen) before I realized I could stay at the Tumon Bay Hilton for the same govt rate! I was so tired I didn't care the first night. Looks like a great place to go Scouting!

Actually, what Yarrow said was: Boy things are getting ugly in another local troop. A young boy, going to canoe base, still can not swim well enough. The parents are insisting on having other stronger swimmers be in the canoe with him. Or they have also suggested hiring a lifeguard to go in his canoe. How much teeth do the troops have to prevent a safety disaster like this one looks. He has been working with camp personal and doing private lessons for months. I believe he has the swimming badge although I don't know how. I have Swimming MB, Lifesaving MB, Canoeing MB, Rowing MB, BSA Lifeguard, WSI, and BSA Lifeguard Counsellor. When I go to Camp this July, I will still have to pass the "Swimmer" test, or I don't get to play. That is one inflexible rule that I happen to agree with.

Thanks for the clarification, DS. 2031??? Whew!

The following web site has a good introduction: http://www.texastrailsbsa.org/OA/oa_home_page.htm

Don't ask, don't tell. Or, "what we don't know can't hurt us." The BSA has evolved over the years. Change is inevitable. My prediction is it will become a Unit and CO option. There are all black troops in my Council, served by a black DE. Do they prohibit whites from applying? Probably not, but the perception is there. There are LDS troops. There are fundamentalist Christian troops, complete with a large cross on their troop neckerchiefs. Do they prohibit Jewish kids? Probably not, but I can't imagine one feeling comfortable and accepted there. There was a time when the Lone Scout Magazine proclaimed "The White Boys' Magazine" on it's cover. There was a time when women were not allowed to lead troops or serve in the OA. There was a time when a boy had to be 8 to join Cubs. There was a time when adults could earn Eagle. There was a time when girls had to be satisfied with Girl Scouts and CampFire Girls. Times change. People change. Mores change. "Change will not occur until the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of the change."

I don't know about BSA "rules", but in the federal regulatory arena, there is a legal distinction between "should" and "shall". "Should" is a recommendation. "Shall" is mandatory. Since the BSA has left it ambiguous, my opinion is that it's a unit option. Could I ask a favor...next time we quote "National Policy", could you provide us the publication or reference where it's written? Thanks, borninthe60s for doing this. I have found that, often, when I go look up the actual language, it doesnt' really say what I thought it did.

I know we're way off thread, DS, but you've peaked my curiosity. Your post implies that transfers every 3 years are expected. In my council, we've had some in place for 10-15 years (for some that's good, others, well...). Their titles change from time to time, but from where I stand, they are still doing the same things. They do play musical chairs among the Districts, more frequently than I think is wise (but they don't ask me), and there have been some young whippersnappers come in with college diplomas still dripping with ink, but they last maybe a year and were gone. Just curious.

Never mind...type in www.col.org without the final period. Clicking on the link above will not work.

The COL website is down...what a coincidence! HMMMMMMM.....

An adult struck your child. You are NOT wrong. A crime has possibly been committed and there is a definite pattern of abuse. As a parent and registered member of the BSA, I am horrified, embarrassed and outraged. The latest offense where he laid hands on the child was last night...not 2 years ago.

Welcome to the forum. Wish it were on a happier note. Well, let's see: - 2 counts of assault and battery (one on a military reservation, FT A.P Hill, making it a Federal crime), not to mention blatant violation of Youth Protection guidelines. - all Scouting activities are open to all parents at any time, period. The SM does not have the right to tell you to stay away, nor should you. I would make sure he knew I was watching his every move. Taking what you have said at face value, the SM is out of control and needs to be removed from the program. Your son may have been out of line too, but that does not excuse the behavior of the adult. Unfortunately, two years is a long time to wait and the statute of limitations may have run out. Guys like this need to be stopped...and soon...before he does something that an apology won't fix. Wonder if he beats his wife, too? Please start by calling your council Scout Executive first thing tomorrow morning and tell him everything you said here...and let us know how it turns out. Ask for him by name and don't settle for anyone else.

OK, I've seen this percentage kicked around ... anywhere from 2-5%. For us science majors, what's the denominator? 2% of what? As I tried to explain the $99 a month car payment ads to my boys...I can make the payment anything you want it to be if I fiddle with the other terms of the equation. Just curious.

Yours is a "common sense" approach, Eisely, however as has been pointed out by the "Rule Police" here, "the rules is the rules" and I don't know how else to interpret the word "passenger". In my simple mind, if you are in a canoe, you are either a paddler or a passenger...can't be both. And I agree that if the parents want a personal lifeguard, they need to foot the bill for his expenses. Safety is something I will not compromise. The idea of having "Swimmers" is so the scout can handle himself if he gets dunked, so "having other stronger swimmers" in the canoe with him is a non-starter. If the canoe swamps, they are busy taking care of their own butts (and gear) and should not be expected to be responsible for the non-swimmer. If it were MY unit, every Scout going on the trip would be a Swimmer, period. With proper instruction, there's no reason short of physical disability that would prevent that. Sounds like the parents are too quick to jump in and save the day...

BSA Safety Afloat requires everyone in a canoe on running water to pass the BSA "Swimmer" test. If he cannot pass the Swimmer test, he may ride as a "passenger" with an adult who is also a certified lifeguard. IF there is an adult available who is a certified lifeguard AND who is willing to do all the paddling on the trip, then GO for it. As a "passenger", the scout has to just sit there and enjoy the ride. If this is a long-term trip, having more than two people in the canoe, plus their gear, is not safe. I did three 50-milers as a Scout and with only two people plus gear, we were pretty low in the water, and did our share of swamping...especially in the rapids. Anyone disagree?

Thanks for the responses. I did find another thread which listed LOTS of Eagle BOR questions, so I printed those out as well. Still not sure what's expected of me in this case, so I will "Be Prepared". The answer could run the gamut from "sit in the corner and sign the paper when we're done" to "run the show and tell us what to do" (I hope not, since this is an experienced, well run Troop). My biggest concern is that it is a memorable and meaningful experience for the Scout, so that he can go back and tell his Troop-mates that it was fair, but not a rubber stamp.

If you can't get the Troop to a long-term camp, look into the possibility of sending individual scouts as "Provisional campers". THis is when a scout attends as a guest of another troop...every year we have one attend with us and it is always a positive experience (win-win!). Reasons can run the gamut from just wanting another week at camp to get more merit badges to family calendar conflicts.

"Monument Avenue". The latest addition was a statue of the late Arthur Ashe, Richmond native and world class tennis champion.

"The lack of OA elections seems to be a symptom, not the disease. You troop's real problem is the lack of an outdoors program and that it is run by a patriarchy, not the PLC." Thanks...along with comments about this troop in another thread, THAT's why I suggested a Unit Commissioner ... if you have one who actually does what they are supposed to be doing. There's more wrong with this troop than the lack of OA elections.

IMHO, you are doing exactly right, Laura. A MB Counsellor can neither add nor subtract from the stated requirements. If you have not directly observed the scout's performance, you can ask that he do it again for you, even if he has a partial blue card, since you are the one ultimately signing off that the badge has been completed. Otherwise, he can go back to the original counsellor.

Sorry for the typo...should have been "In 2002"...

The main purpose of the OA is to promote unit camping, although many have lost sight of that fact. Having elections should not be an option of the Unit leader. OA is an integral part of the program and, next to Eagle, is one of the highest honors a Scout can receive. In an ideal world, your Unit Commissioner and OA Chapter Chief should be seeking out those units who have not scheduled elections and making sure it gets done. The Troop should also have an OA Representative as a youth leadership position. Where is the unit committee in all of this?

Welcome to the online campfire! You read my mind. Our council has special CSPs for Silver Beavers, but not Eagles...I have recently started promoting the idea. A Google search on "Eagle Scout CSP" will get you a lot of ideas...some Councils require proof of Eagle to purchase one.

Following is a direct quote. Readers can form their own opinions. I found it interesting that they felt a need to defend their numbers. Perhaps someone in Irving reads our Forum??? From EAGLETTER, Spring 2003: NOTES FROM NESA "We did it! IN 2003, the Boy Scouts of America established a record Eagle Scout Class - 49,328 new Eagle Scouts. Are we excited about more young men earning Eagle Rank? Yes. Do we want to increase the number of Scouts who earn it? Not necessarily. The Eagle Scout Rank is a standard by which a young man's accomplishments are measured. The award is significantly difficult to achieve, and we are not making it any easier to earn. We belive that the BSA's youth retention efforts are to thank for this surge in new Eagle Scouts. We are proud to process these new Eagles, and we recognize that the real pats on the back belong to parents, Troops, and motivated young men who work for this honor. Congratulations and thanks to all who helped a young man become an Eagle."

As a District Committee person, I have been asked by the Adv Chairman to serve as the District rep on an Eagle BOR next week. Any tips for a first-timer? I am an Eagle, but don't remember much from my BOR in 1970.

Never one to remain "defiantly ignorant", I checked and Ed is correct, HIPAA (correct acronym) does not apply to BSA since they are not a "covered entity" (do not accept or transmit payment for health care or transmit medical information electronically...yet). However...if I ever find out that personnel OTHER THAN the camp medic have free access to my medical information, the Scout Executive and I are going to have a very unpleasant, pretty much one-way discussion.