scoutldr

"The mark of the Elite in Scouting"??? I don't think of myself as one of the Elite, I'm just a lowly (insert position title here) so I guess I'm not worthy of being "invited" to attend and I won't even ask about it. (Do you get my point, guys?...how does this sound to a new Scouter who knows nothing about the program? Think this sounds inviting and inclusionary enough for someone to want to plunk down 200 bucks and a week of vacation time? I think all this "mystery" and hyperbole is excluding a lot of otherwise willing participants.)

Any site full of scouts learning, teaching and having fun. No adults visible. And they Leave No Trace.

How do you reconcile with the curfew laws if there is no adult supervision? Also, with the 2-deep question, I think we are confusing 2-Deep Leadership with Youth Protection. A Merit Badge counsellor is not a "leader", therefore only the YP rules apply...no one-on-one contact. If a scout takes a buddy and the three of them meet, the rule is met. "2 Deep" is more of a safety issue for troop outings than it is a YP issue.

Go back to the main Forum topics page (green bar at the top...click on "FORUMS" Go to the "SCOUTER Announcements" topic Go all the way to the bottom and click on "CONTACT US"

dsteele, if you need about 50 lbs, I'll be glad to send them to ya! At 5'6, I'm not overweight...I'm just undertall! We have a few "friends of" units too, and have considered doing it for my own units (Pack and Troop). Sure would make recharter a lot easier...rather than trying to track down a CR that doesn't know we exist.

OA Chapter names MUST be the same as the District names, regardless of what the boys voted on. (From our SE). A quick check of other councils' web sites tells me that's a myth.

Excuse me, Red...did you say you have youths conducting Boards of Review???? THAT should spark a firestorm on this thread!

OK, Scouters, don't we have better ways to spend our time than to sit around casting aspersions on the honesty of a young Eagle Scout, Scouters and a District Advancement Committee that we don't even know and have never met? Is that very Christian, Jewish, Islamic or Scout-like? To the young Eagle, I say, Good Luck, God Bless and welcome to our ranks! You took an oath on your honor to "do your best" and to be "Trustworthy". I have no doubt that you did exactly that. Now let's focus on keeping our own back yards a little cleaner.

eBay is an on-line auction house. If you have an item to sell, you post it, maybe with a minimum bid or reserve price specified. IF you want to buy, you register and then bid away! Just search on "scout" and you will get almost 300 pages of items for sale, ranging from the common to the extremely rare (like a 1935 National Jamboree patch or a COMPLETE uniform and all accoutrements from a 1925 Eagle Scout). I enjoy just browsing and learning about Scouting history, and have spent more than I want my wife to know...a few bucks at a time. One of the saddest things I saw was an old Scouter who was "downsizing" ... he said he chose eBay because his kids would not appreciate what his collection of patches and awards meant to him and they would just get rid of it at a garage sale. He would rather share them with other scouters where he knew they would be cared for. Granted, there are dealers selling just to make a buck, but the majority of participants are scouts, scouters, and former scouts just wanting to share what they have and increase their collections. THere may be a few offenders, but this is another example of the scout law in action...at least in the Scout arena, I buy and sell with complete confidence that I won't be defrauded or stiffed. And in 3 years, I have never had a bad transaction.

Would be nice if the CS trainers could get advance copies, so we can develop FAQ sheets and incorporate the new changes into the training curricula.

Jeff, thanks for your first aid service to scouting. My best days in Scouting were as a member of a Fire and Rescue Explorer Post chartered to a Vol Fire Dept and Rescue Squad, and we provided advanced first aid/ambulance support to all District and OA activities (our Advisor and those over 18 were state certified and licensed to drive the ambulance). Just a comment on your Health Lodge experience...an 11 year old is a minor and does not get to decide what emergency medical treatment he will receive nor from whom. That is specified on the Health and Medical form signed by his parents, authorizing whatever appropriate medical care is deemed necessary. As a parent, if I knew that medical decisions were being made based on my minor son's desires or modesty, I would be outraged. Just follow the Youth Protection rules and your training and you should be OK. And keep good written records of all treatment.

OK, that's it! "The Navy is not part of the military"??????? According to MY dictionary, "military" used as a noun means "armed forces". Period. So, even the Coast Guard is an "armed force", even though they are not in the Department of Defense. "The Navy is not part of the military?" Come to Norfolk and say that to the crew of a submarine full of Harpoon cruise missiles coming home from a year-long deployment! I guess the President was mis=informed when he flew out to the aircraft carrier last week. I'll admit, I don't know what our Congressional Charter says. But I do believe there are laws against impersonating a member of the military, as well as doctors, police officers, clergy, etc. So while wearing a pair of BDUs may not be "illegal", trying to convince others by fraud that you are a SEAL or Airborne Ranger or even a Yeoman is. I also don't believe that an 11 year old running around the woods in a scout shirt and BDUs, camo or otherwise, rises to the level of "impersonation", or even the capital crime of "mimicry". Now if anyone is issuing their scouts rifles and fake military ID cards, and painting their canoes and F150s OD green with white stars on the doors, I'll sit up and take notice! But in an otherwise good Troop program, is what they wear really important? The most grievous offense they are guilty of is not being in complete Scout uniform...it doesnt' matter if they are BDU's, blue jeans, sweat pants or pajama bottoms. The choice is to either be "in uniform"...or not.

Maybe I missed it, but nowhere in your posts do I see a mention of a Chartered Organization. They are the ones who "own" the unit...not the parents, leaders, boys, district or council, and they are the ones to address your concerns when the COmmittee won't. THey are the ones who have the fiduciary responsibility to ensure that finances are handled properly, with the proper checks and balances of authority and proper audits. If they are a non=profit organization, under IRS rules (which may or may not apply in Okinawa???), there are laws that govern this, since the unit is an extension of the organization. If, as I suspect, the unit is chartered to a military organization, the Commanding Officer of the base has the legal responsibility to ensure that everything on his base is conducted according to the rules (i.e., no embezzlement). This applies to the Wives' Clubs, the Recreation facilities, the Coffee Mess, and even the scout units under his cognizance, and there is (or should be) some Junior Officer who has the collateral duty of auditing those accounts. If you have evidence or suspicion of illegal activity (such as embezzlement), a call to the base criminal investigative office may be in order. Find a local JAG officer and have an informal chat over coffee. As to the CM using camping equipment, the Pack does not own the equipment, OR the money...the Chartered Organization does, and only they can authorize use of their property for purposes other than for which they were procured. IF the pack and troop are chartered to the same org, then the matter seems a moot point whether the equipment is used on a Pack outing or a Troop outing. As to awards, if I had waited for someone to "put me in" for awards, I wouldn't have any, either. Your Pack Trainer (NOT Advancement Chair who has nothing to do with adult training awards) should be making sure every leader has the application form for the knot suitable to their position, but then it's up to the leader to follow through and get the required signatures. A lot of the leaders I know don't bother because it's not important to them to have a decorated uniform. A lot of the leaders I know just wear their Eagle knot, if they earned it, even though they are eligible for 3-4 rows of knots. It's a personal choice depending on how much sewing you want to do (my wife refuses to do it for me!). Just a few ideas from a non-lawyer.

Let the boys lead...be honest and explain the situation to them. Tell them you need 3 more of their friends to form a Troop and challenge them to make it happen. Then help THEM find a leader. It could be the most challenging and rewarding thing you will do...and this is where the rubber meets the road.

We used to have Position Description pocket cards (an entire sheet covered all the positions in a Pack or Troop), available for purchase. Are these still available?

Pipsico Scout Reservation (Camp Lions, Camp Kiwanis), starting in 1966, Tidewater Council, VA Hidden Valley Scout Reservation (winter camps), Keystone Area Council, PA

eamonn: If the book is out of print, try www.half.com or www.alibris.com. The former deals in used books and the latter deals in rare, OOP, and first editions.

Or the Chicken Dance or the Hokey Pokey! What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?????

First of all, these are MY opinions and perceptions only, and before someone jumps down my throat again, I do not share these with those that I train...I sincerely hope that I am wrong. But as someone else pointed out...if a die-hard Scout like me has these perceptions, there is something wrong with how WB is being marketed: 1. Wood Badge was for the GOB club (good ole boys) because these were the same people who got the Silver Beavers, District Awards of Merit, Vigil Honor, and now, James E West Fellows. As was pointed out by another poster, most of these people did no unit level scouting and were not what we refer to now as "Direct Contact" volunteers. In my experience, there are two types of Scouters...those who lead Scouts and those who talk about leading scouts. 2. Maybe it was not consciously kept "secret" but there was always an air of mystery surrounding it, not unlike how the OA appears to the uninitiated. This business of having to be "invited" to attend only serves to foster that perception. If you want more people to attend, then cut the crap and just take registrations like any other course. (Same with Philmont Training Center). 3. After almost 40 years in the Movement, all I know about WB, I learned from this forum. There is NO effort at the Council or District level to disseminate information, other than dates and cost. It's clear to me why they are having trouble getting enough registrations to make a course "go"; to ask someone to give up a week of time and almost $200 has to be accompanied by more than just "trust us, it will change your life." 4. Now that I know more about it, I am almost convinced I do not want to make the investment. It sounds like more of the same we get at work..."Seven Habits", "Principle Centered Leadership", Deming, Total Quality Leadership, Blanchard, Peter Senge, Tom Peters, Covey, yada yada yada. Only at work, they pay ME to go. Consultants with "the answer" are a dime a dozen, just like televangelists and diet gurus. A year later, they are out and someone else is "in" with a new "solution." 5. It sounds like the people who put WB21 together are the same ones who designed the latest basic training courses...I think they were also the writers for "Mr. Rogers Neighborhood". To me they are almost painful to sit through the videos with the bad acting. The most insulting thing to an adult learner is to be "talked down to." Another thread asked what we do to alter the course content...I refuse to talk to adult students as if they are scouts and make them do stupid exercises like "build the bridge." Their time is too valuable for meaningless fluff.

"A ship in port is safe...but that's not what ships are for." I think you have to decide where you can do the most good for the most youth. There will you find your answer.

Certified Industrial Hygienist.(you asked!) I work for the U.S. Navy as a senior civilian manager. Industrial Hygiene is the science of recognizing, evaluating and controlling occupational health hazards, including hazardous chemicals, noise, radiation, ergonomics, and now, chemical and biological warfare agents. In another volunteer capacity I serve as a Director on the American Board of Industrial Hygiene. I have worked in shipyards, as an OSHA inspector, and as a College instructor. Been in scouting in the same Council since a Bobcat in 1962.

Who represents Council at these "chats"? The Scout Executive? I have seen the SE exactly twice in 12 years. Once at summer camp about 5 years ago when he came up on Weds night to meet with the unit leaders (he got such an earful, I heard he never did it again!). Camporees? OA Events? Univ of Scouting? Forget it.

"Handkerchief"? What's that?

Thanks for taking the time, dsteele. That was good information, and more in line with what I was looking for. I have no ulterior motives...but now that I am in a District position (among others!), I'm trying to learn and understand the operations and (uggghhh) politics of a Council. I think if more volunteers understood what the professionals have to deal with on a daily basis, we would have better working relationships. But, too often, I get the attitude of "we're the professionals here...you don't need to understand it, you just need to implement it." And to be honest, a few volunteers I know have an attitude of "you're just here to serve the volunteers." The real answer is we are all trying to work together toward a common purpose, albeit in different roles. I perceive a lot of mistrust and misunderstanding between the pros and volunteers and, frankly, I don't understand why. Maybe it's just a quirk of my Council. Another poster recently quoted Steven Covey..."seek first to understand, then to be understood." A lot more honest, nonjudgmental, non-condescending communication can go a long way, both in this forum and in our Councils. Thanks again, dsteele. Your participation in this forum has been very enlightening (not to mention helpful, friendly, courteous, kind and a cheerful service!). I hope you get your dream job!

I didn't say we shouldn't have stretch goals. I only meant that if we don't meet them, it's not always because of our shortcomings and it doesn't help to beat the volunteers harder(as is happening in my area). Indeed, it's very counterproductive. Yes, I increased my pledge this year...but the only response was, "it's not enough, we need to do more."