scoutldr

That's pretty arrogant, ed. So anyone who doesnt' agree with you is wrong? IF you want the guarantee of "Freedom of religion", then we must also guarantee "Freedom FROM religion", especially religion with which we don't agree. With the Establishment Clause (aka, the First Amendment), the Framers wanted to guarantee that the Government would never establish a State Religion (i.e., the "Church of England" or "atheism") and to guarantee that religious persecution could not exist in a free society. So, as an educated and intelligent person, my interpretation is that Government may support groups such as the Scouts, who have religious duty as a basic tenet, however, in turn those groups may NOT advocate (and thereby discriminate) a specific religion over another (e.g., LDS, Christianity, Judaism, or Islam) or exclude those who choose not to agree. Benefits provided by the GOvernment (that is, our tax dollars), must be made available to all citizens regardless of race, gender, ethnicity or creed. The solution is for the members to put their money where their beliefs are, so that the BSA doesn't need to depend on Government largesse. It's almost FOS time!

At the time it happened, the news reported that the Church had leased the camp from the Colonial Virginia Council for the weekend. The rental agreement did not include the lake, and it was specified that it was off limits. Nor was aquatics a part of the Church's planned activities. The youth snuck away from the group and one dared the other to a swimming race to a raft anchored in the middle of the lake. Their deaths were tragic, but were the result of their own misconduct.

Merlyn, I respect your beliefs and your right to express them...you are a valuable member of the forum and have made me think. Although it may not have been evident in my post, I am still wrestling with this issue in my own mind. I do believe all forms of discrimination are wrong. I, myself have been the victim of racial discrimination many times (some would call it "reverse" discrimination, but the result is the same). I wish the organization that I grew up in and still love were more inclusive, or at least not as disclusive. I think the best option might be "local option". COs should be able to set their own membership standards. We have units sponsored by christian churches where every meeting is started with prayer and a "message" and they have the Cross of Jesus on the back of their Troop neckerchiefs. They are spoonfed their religious awards in classes at Den and Troop meetings (God and Country mills???). Other units are exclusively LDS or Muslim. ALthough, technically, if a white Jew tried to join the Muslim unit, he probably wouldn't be turned away, he would feel pretty darn unwelcome while the entire unit prays to Mecca 6 times a day, don't you think? Wonder how the Jewish kid would feel having to wear Christian symbols on his official uniform and having to listen to New Testament scripture readings during the opening? Others, like ours, adhere to the Declaration of Religious Principles, but have a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude, and religion is not a real visible part of our program, so I like to think we are as inclusive as they come. Like the BSA treats sex education, my personal belief is that religious training is a parental duty, according to their own faith and custom. And I believe we will be judged on how we treat our fellow human beings, and by our stewardship of God's creation...including the sinners and non-believers He created. Maybe this is a test??? HMMMMMMM.

Merlyn, read the "12 steps"...do you also advocate goverment agencies withdraw support from Alcoholics Anonymous? Around here, churches regularly meet in our schools until their buildings are built. What about military chaplains and churches on military bases? Your tax dollars are providing religion to the troops and the amount spent is FAR in excess of the paltry support provided to the BSA. But if we want to provide a coffee pot in our office (military), we are not allowed to spend congressionally appropriated funds ... we have to pay coffee mess dues. Where is the logic? Why not go after the BIG bucks where you could make a difference.

Scouter ties are available regularly on eBay...

NAVY FOOTBALL The Naval Academy Athletic Association would like to invite your scout troop to join us for our annual "Scout Day" on November 22, 2003, for the Navy vs. Central Michigan game in Annapolis, MD at 1:30pm. This promotion is available for boy scouts, girl scouts, cub scouts, etc. We are offering $8 discounted reserved seats for scouts and $15 reserved seats for parents. You can camp out the weekend of the game, tour the yard (Naval Academy) with a Midshipman, and receive a patch for the event. There will be special recognition for those who come in groups of 20 or more and Eagle Scouts will be recognized during the game Order deadline is October 30, 2003. Please contact Ray Dixson at 1-800-874-6289, ext. 140, or via e-mail at dixson@usna.edu for further information.

Did you mean to say "Varsity letter"? We have no Varsity units in our Council...wonder why BSA keeps it alive?

Words, words, words...

I'm not diabetic (yet!), but my wife is an RN and my mother was insulin dependent Type 2. She advises that we should always carry glucose tablets, or cake frosting in the squeeze tube...someone unconscious cannot swallow solids so the frosting is squeezed in between the cheek and gum and massaged in. Avoid the color blue, since it will look like cyanosis! It will absorb through the skin of the gums. All scouts and scouters who camp with diabetics should be trained in the signs and symptoms of hypoglycemia (low sugar) and first aid.

Man o steele, spelling is, indeed important. It's Captain Jean-Luc Picard. And most missed FOG's metaphor, "He was hoist on his own pitard." Pitard being a spear, and being hoist (impaled) on one's own spear denotes the ultimate in blunders. It is indeed a dying art to be able to insult with the victim remaining clueless!

For $350 bucks, I would have rinsed them off. 7 second rule applies, right? Yes it's a rip off, but it is small potatoes for the insurance company to investigate. That's why my premiums are over $200 a month and going up 10-15% per year. And why I now have to pay ($600) for a separate non-group policy for my full-time student son who turns 22 in January, but is still living under my roof and out of my wallet. My "self and family" policy now covers 2 people instead of the original 4...but my premiums are the same. Fairness??? Forget it. BOHICA!

Not to start another off-thread debate, but the implication that overweight means that one has heart disease is just not true. It's just one of many risk factors. I'll bet smokers are not automatically disqualified, but they should be, using that logic.

Speaking for my ASM who used to be one.."The Green Berets"

Bravo!

The "Insignia Guide 2003-2005" is out, cat no 33066D, but I had to drive 4 hours to get it. Maybe if we all refuse to buy the old stuff, someone will get the message. As I said, I travel a lot and always try to visit the Council Shop in other councils. I spent over $100 at the National Capital Area Council updating my "training library" of new versions that I didn't know were out. For some reason, they had all new up to date stuff. I really would like to support my local council, but I don't appreciate being sold old goods. If I were a Cub leader, I would order all new stuff from National if I had to. Why have kids start the program using obsolete materials?

OGE, CPAP here also. If I don't use the machine, I wake up with a crushing headache because my O2 saturation drops below 80% during the night. At summer camp this year, this 100 foot orange extension cord snaked through the woods leading to my tent. All of our leaders snore, but I am the only one so far that has gotten diagnosed (severe OSA) and now I travel with my machine and earplugs everywhere. I don't feel comfortable wearing earplugs while camping, however, for safety reasons (can't hear the bears eating the scouts!) For those who don't know, Obstructive Sleep Apnea is when the tissues of the soft palate relax during sleep and block the airway causing the patient to stop breathing for up to a minute at a time...20-30 times an hour. This causes constant arousal (not the good kind) and deprivation of REM sleep. The CPAP machine forces air into the nose to keep the airway inflated during the night (not as bad as it sounds).. The surgery has now fallen into disfavor because it is very painful and usually does not work. My brother in law had it and he snores worse than ever. (they take a laser and carve away the soft palate and uvula...OUCH!) The sleep technician who did my study said "whatever you do, don't have the surgery...it NEVER works! We went cabin camping last year, and my machine blew air that smelled like bacon grease for weeks after I got home (should have changed the filter!). And not only have I been to Bethlehem, I was born there! (actually Easton!)

This is not a new concept. The council camp in PA we visit every winter was built in the 30s-40s and every building, cabin, and the dining hall have corporate names to honor the contributors (obviously VERY generous). In my council, the camps on the reservation are named after the fraternal organizations which originally supported them.

Just bought a 2003-2005 edition: Page 4, "Excess Insignia": "With the exception of the Cub Scout badges of rank and arrow points, members wear only the insignia that show their present status in the movement. Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered. Previously earned badges and insignia--not representing present status--make a fine display on a BSA red patch vest, a trophy hide or blanket, exhibited in the home of the recipient, or at functions where such a display is invited. Members may wear only temporary patches (no badges of rank) on the back of the merit badge sash. Members may wear only one merit badge sash at a time. A merit badge sash is NEVER worn on the belt." Besides merit badges and temporary patches, the only other thing authorized on the MB sash is the Varsity Letter. Page 47, OA Sashes: ""Legend strips" or "sash backs" are not official and may not be worn on the sash or with the uniform. The OA sash is not worn with the merit badge sash."

Socrates

One statement does not make sense: "He had to get shots to prevent venereal disease." There is no medical reason for this unless the perpetrator tested positive for gonorrhea, syphilis or hepatitis B. Other diseases such as herpes and HIV are viral and are not preventable with a "shot". A technical point, I know, and it does not lessen the horror of the crime. And I do hope he was charged with the felony that he allegedly committed, but unless there were witnesses, it's "he said, he said."

"Kapers" ::: I married a Girl Scout, so I know this one. A "Kaper Chart" is what we call a "Duty Roster". A list of jobs, and who is assigned to do them. I get in trouble every weekend over my "kapers" because I spend too much time on my "situpon". Can't tell you the word's etymology, though.

I love Marines. Every Navy should have some. Semper Fi, Sarge!

I'm not Bob, either, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a couple of weeks ago...is that good enough? The Archbishop of Canterbury is quoted on MSN.com that he fully expects the Anglican Church in the US to divide into two separate divisions (schisms) as a result of this...sounds like a fait accomplis. If the church allows gay religious leaders, I find it hard to believe that they would object to gay Scout leaders. I predict that they will divorce the BSA...not vice versa. For those waiting with baited breath, the vote happens at 1630 CDT. (For you ex-Marines, the little hand will be on the....)

There is a 1984 edition listed for $2.95 at www.alibris.com Many more available in the under $10 range.

National Capital Area Council is another that I have visited recently. They have a beautiful facility on Wisconsin Ave in Bethesda, MD, a block from the Naval Hospital and the National Institutes of Health. It's called the "Marriott Scout Center"...for obvious reasons. There is a huge portrait of THE Mr. Marriott in the lobby (also a leader in the LDS church, FWIW). Not sure if $300 grand is out of line or not, but my modest 3 BR ranch house of 1300 SF would cost me about $450,000 in that neighborhood. I have passed up promotions more than once to move to the DC area just because of the crazy cost of living there (not to mention the traffic).