scoutldr

Keep in mind that filling out a Scouter application does not cancel our first amendment right to be stupid in public. I, for one can tell you. Where is the Commissioner staff? I believe that the DC or UC should have a chat with the "gentleman" and remind him of BSA policy of gender inclusion and that, by filling out the application, he agreed to uphold. If not, the DC should offer to help him recruit his replacement. Does this make him an "avowed" sexist? HMMMMM.

Ask your Scoutmaster when the next Junior Leader Training Course is going to be and then go to it and earn your "Trained" strip. Congratulations and good luck!

Right, Bob. I said I was a new trainer, but not yet a know-it-all. The know-it-alls in my District wouldn't volunteer for this job, so they're stuck with me. Maybe after 20 years in this job, I will know everything, but for right now, I have to dive for my references (or this forum) when I have a question...which is what I just did. And guess what, the references (Venturing Leader Specific Training Manual) tell me you're wrong. Male Venturers may indeed continue to earn Boy Scout recognitions (Star, Life, Eagle, Merit Badges) IF they became first class while registered as a Boy Scout (and the ones I;ve seen wear their ranks proudly). There is no requirement that they be concurrently registered in a Troop, as with OA, and the Venture Crew Committee conducts the Board of Review. So it just does not make sense that the "rules" are inconsistent, and to allow a Venturer to continue earning rank, but denying him the honor of OA is just ludicrous. And I don't believe for a minute that the OA does anything unless National knows about it and agrees with it. So it appears to me that Venturing is having an identity crisis...they want to belong, but they want to be separate. They need to decide which they want and then get off the fence and go for it. Yes, as a trainer, I spout the party line. What I don't agree with, I work to change if I think it's wrong. Forgive me, but I was under the impression that this forum was for the free and open exchange of ideas and discussions....NOT to be a cheering section for National policy. I have witnessed many changes in the program since 1962, some I agree with, some I don't. But I suspect none of the changes would have happened unless people like me questioned the status quo.

One night a week at summer camp, and usually on Saturday night during Ordeals, Camporees and Fall Fellowships. Usually hosted by the OA. A "spread" is put out consisting of cookies, crackers, cheese, cold cuts, desserts, bug juice and maybe even leftovers from dinner. Just an unstructured time for fellowship, patch trading, telling of jokes and sea stories, or whatever. Sometimes limited to SMs and SPLs, depending on the event.

To piggyback on Ed's suggestion...put all BSA publications on a CD=ROM in PDF format.

Check out eBay item #2162594033 "Sponsor a Scout to Summer Camp". Begging for donations to fund their summer camp and Northern Tier trips..."and you don't have to buy popcorn or candy you don't want"! How many rules does this break? Not to mention eBay rules. No bidders so far as I can tell.

bump

Thanks, Bob...but as BSA policy seems to do, it only led to more questions. From what I understand, 1. Venture crews may NOT hold elections 2. Once elected, an arrowman is a member for life as long as his BSA registration remains current, but only in a Pack, Troop or Team. 3. OA flaps may be worn on the Venture uniform, if a bona fide member So, extrapolating, it also seems that: 1. If a Scout/Scouter transfers to a Venture crew as his sole registration before being called out, he forfeits the chance to become an arrowman. 2. In order to continue as an active OA member, he must also maintain registration in a Troop or Pack (or District/Council position?), which could be just a paperwork and dues exercise. 3. Scouters who are sole members of Venture crews may not serve as OA members or advisors. My opinion...this is stupid. If an arrowman is a registered member of a BSA unit, he/she should be able to continue as an active OA member, as seems to be the custom in my Council/Lodge. I agree with Crews not being allowed to have elections, since they are co-ed and girls may not earn First Class rank, but I could probably be convinced that a change in that area is warranted, also (the elections thing, not the First Class thing). But if an arrowman transfers to a Crew, he should be able to continue. As I said, a lot of the senior arrowmen and Officers in my Lodge are from Venture crews, as was the Lodge advisor. I guess it is possible that they were dual registered in Troops, but I am not privy to that information. As an Associate Chapter Advisor, I will be more vigilant to make sure those "infidels" do not infiltrate our Order and use up all of the opportunities for Cheerful Service.

Our last Lodge chief (male) was from a Venture crew. If there's a rule against that, what's the reference?

I would endow the BSA with enough money to operate without having to strongarm parents and volunteers for donations and making kids (and their parents) sell popcorn for 3 times more than what you buy it for at the grocery store and that nobody really wants. The other side of that coin would be that every local Council's financial books would be published on their web site for all to see.

Not to beat a dead horse, but here is the specific language from the G2SS: "Never fuel a stove, heater, or lantern inside a cabin; always do this outdoors. Do not operate a stove, lantern, or charcoal grill in an unventilated structure. Provide at least two ventilation openings, one high and one low, to provide oxygen and exhaust for lethal gases. Never fuel (example: all liquid fuels, charcoal. etc.), ignite, or operate a stove, heater, or lantern in a tent."

Check out this one...it's a hoot! (This is a prerequisite for the Homeland Security MB!) http://www.troop99hiltonny.gobot.com/custom2.html

Having been in the movement since 1962 (Eagle '70), some pet peeves: 1. No good ole' boy networks. Allow everyone the same opportunity to serve at such events as OA, Jambo and Philmont Treks...(youth and adults). 2. Recruit vols at the District/Council level who are actually interested in and capable of doing the job. Dont' just "fill in the blanks" with names. For example, I will have little respect for a Unit Commish who was recruited "off the streets" and has no experience OR expertise to share with me. 3. Ease up on the fund raising. In my opinion, FOS should be focused on the local community and business leaders, and should be the SE's job to make and nurture those contacts. Leave the families alone. They have enough to do paying for summer camp, camping gear, unit dues, outrageously expensive uniforms, and $30 tins of popcorn. 4. Pros who don't micromanage. Your job is to recruit good people, then get out of their way and let them work. 5. Remember that volunteers are doing this because they want to and not because it's our job. We may not do it the same way you would, or as fast as you would, but this is an extracurricular activity for us, NOT the job that feeds our families. Our priorities are not the same as yours, and you are not our supervisor. This is how we choose to spend our precious, limited leisure time, but if it becomes too hard or too stressful, we can walk away, and many do for that reason. 6. More parental involvement at every level. Your 12 year old scout doesnt' care if you donate to FOS...but he would like you to show up for his Court of Honor, not make him (and his SM) wait 30 minutes for a ride home after the troop meeting and go camping with him (or at least help drive) once in a while. 7. Fewer meetings that serve no purpose. (See #5.) Have an agenda and stick to it. Conduct business by e-mail whenever possible. (The "Professional's Minute" should be just that.) 8. Have a great Council and district web site and KEEP IT CURRENT...this serves as good PR as well as making more resources available to more volunteers. 9. Keep the Scout Shop stocked with stuff! Too many times I have stood in front of a Pack meeting or Troop COH and said, "Johnny WOULD be getting his (name the badge) tonight, but the Scout SHop was out of them." 10. Don't compromise high standards just to keep the "numbers" up.

I am amazed that a simple question generated so much passionate discussion...but pleasantly so. I think we can all agree that safety of our young charges is the #1 priority in any Scouting function. As one who has conducted swim checks every summer, taught swimming, lifesaving, BSA Lifeguard, former Red Cross WSI, yada, yada, yada, I have to side with the aquatics experts here. To quote the G2SS which was found in a previous post, "The swimmer must be able to cover distance with a strong, confident stroke. The 75 yards must not be the outer limit of the swimmer's ability; completion of the distance should give evidence of sufficient stamina to avoid undue risks. Dog-paddling and strokes repeatedly interrupted and restarted are not sufficient; " Obviously, the term, "strong, confident", is subjective and up to the expert conducting the evaluation to determine. I don't know how BSA could make it more specific. So, to me, the Scout who cannot swim without the use of "aids" such as goggles and nose clips, and comes up sputtering, clenching his eyes closed so that he can't see where he's going, thus interrupting his stroke because he can't breathe with proper rhythm (i.e., stopping in mid-stream to get his composure), then he fails the test in my pool. He did not meet the requirement. He is not swimming in a "strong, confident" manner. And I'll be happy to work the rest of the week with him to get to that point. The scout may shed a few tears and the Leader may have a few words with me, but when the scout finally does get that buddy tag colored in, it's a much more satisfying accomplishment. I do the same with BSA Lifeguard candidates...you'd be amazed how many show up for class with their Swimming and Lifesaving MBs on their sash that can't make a decent stroke across the pool. I don't run a "gimme" program. Go back and learn to swim first, then we'll talk about becoming a Lifeguard.

The most complete site I have found is http://usscouts.org/awards/knots2.html You might consider the Scoutmaster's Award of Merit...although designed for new SMs, if he has never received it, it would be nice. In my Council, adults fend for themselves...I try to provide blank forms for award applicaitions in all training sessions, but it's up to the Scouter to track his/her progress and get the paperwork submitted. There are two sides to that approach...one is that adults are expected to be adults and are not spoonfed, but the other side is very few of them bother to apply, either out of ignorance, or because of humility, having a "fruit salad" on their chest is just not important to them (that's not a criticism...just an observation.) I have an ASM who is a decorated Vietnam Special Forces veteran...I had to fill out his Scouter Training Award and submit it for him...because he was "just not into that stuff."

Any source of combustion will produce carbon MONoxide...a silent killer. I would not gamble my own or my Scouts' lives on whether we have "adequate ventilation" or not. You won't know for sure until the next morning and you count how many wake up. Most young scouts will button up a tent so tight that NOTHING will get in or out, not even monsters, bears, or AIR. It's just not worth the gamble, in my opinion. And for those of you familiar with the old white gas/Coleman fuel catalytic heaters, the "catalyst" was a layer of asbestos cloth. Not sure what the new ones are made of.

The prudent employer will not sponsor events which serve alcohol. Too much liability. If they do, the prudent employee will not imbibe to the point of jeopardizing his/her career. In situations like that, there is no such thing as being "off duty". Your behavior and judgment are being constantly observed and evaluated. As regards the religious accomodation question, I will defer to the attorney, and keep my opinions private.

Great question, RMV, but recommend you start a new topic. I'll wait till then to jump in.

Great! I just bought an obsolete book! The least they could do is put them on a half price clearance rack! &^%#*&^%(#%&^%#!@^*(*&)(#*$&)*&@#^%!(@&^%#

Sounds like a Silver Beaver to me... http://www.scouting.org/forms/92-103.pdf

PS: Record cards for all awards are also in the publication "Leadership Training Committee Guide", Pub 34169E, available at your Council Center.

Here's one site...in .pdf files http://www.indianhead.org/Northwest/BoyTrain.html Scroll all the way to the bottom. They also have the CUb awards under "Cub Scout Training"

At our recent UofS, I attended a Life to Eagle seminar...very well taught. The instructor emphasized that, on the Eagle app, a total of 180 days in one or more leadership positions, (since the date of the Life BoR) is what they look for. There is no minimum tenure in any one position. Also, it is not necessary to list more than 180 days. If they see 180, the box is checked. No extra credit. It is logical that the most responsible positions would be listed (i.e., SPL rather than Den Chief), however that is NOT a requirement.

While a First Class Scout, serve actively for 4 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop): Boy Scout troop Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, bugler, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, or instructor. THese are Troop positions, not Patrol positions, unless it qualifies as a "leadership project assigned by the Scoutmaster to help the Troop."

Or an anatomy major! If the organism is that infectious, a nose clip won't help...it will enter through the mouth and then go up into the nose, since they are all connected. That would not meet the definition of "safe swimming area" as required in Safe Swim Defense.