scoutldr

One reason I see units making rules (or "by-laws") is that they don't know that BSA rules (policies) exist, nor where to find them, so their answer is to figure out what they need to know and publish them in one place for the parents and leaders. If they don't know of a BSA rule that applies, they feel compelled to make one up, which may or may not agree with BSA policy. Like my recent question on complete uniforms. I don't have the time nor the money to collect ALL of the references so I can research the question properly and quote the specific reference that it may be buried in. One thing the BSA could do is put ALL publications and forms on a CD (or on line) and index them and cross reference them in a searchable .pdf format. Sure would save a lot of trees. Or are these pubs viewed as a profit center for the Scout Shops? I would gladly pay 10 bucks for an annual CD. DS referred to a BSA Intranet for professionals? Why not allow access for district and council volunteers? Reminds me of the time I asked our Comptroller a question about travel regs. The insulting answer was "you wouldn't understand the rules, so you can't see them. Ask me the question and I will tell you the answer." That's one thing I like about this forum. All the answers are a few mouse clicks away. Too bad it's not "official".

Thanks for participating on this forum, DS. That is truly the "extra mile". I'll add my 2 cents: Agree with doing what it takes to get the job done, but don't forget your job description. If you have a volunteer in a position, get out of the way and let them do the job. It may not be the way you would have done it; we all have different styles of management. It may not be according you your timeline...we have careers that feed our families and which must take our first priority. I get up at 0500 every morning and often get home just in time to change into my scout uniform and get to my 7 pm meeting that night. Supper often comes at 10 pm when I get home. This is at least 3 nights a week. If the job requires a DE to work 80 hrs a week for 30K per year, I think that is unreasonable. But your beef is with your employer...don't take it out on the volunteers who have their own, different job descriptions. I am reminded of those who buy homes next to the airport and then complain about the noise. When the BSA finds it impossible to attract and retain competent professionals (which, by my observation is soon to be the case), perhaps they will take a look at and improve the working conditions. Beating harder the ones who are left is not smart. A DE once told me, "BSA is all about family values, but this is no job for a family man." He is actively looking for another career...at his wife's insistence. If I take my valuable "free time" to go to a meeting, it had better be worthwhile. Have an agenda and stick to it. Send out the committee reports by e-mail ahead of time so we don't waste time reading them for the first time at the meeting. If you are the DE, don't dominate the meeting. Your time is the "Professional's Minute" at the end. If the chair of the meeting isn't doing his/her job, or the committee chairs are not submitting reports, replace them...don't do the job for them. Chewing out the ones who are there is not the right answer. I understand you don't spend much time in the office (nor should you), but do return phone calls and e-mail from your volunteers within 24 hrs. Don't call ANYONE after 9pm, unless they've asked you to. NEVER schedule my time for me. If you advertise an event without consulting me, I will assume you have it covered. I could go on and on...I once considered becoming a BSA professional...but now that I know what I know, I could never be one, nor would I recommend it to any one.

Lion/Arrow of Light Eagle Eligible for Bronze Palm, but never officially applied for it Pro Deo et Patria (Lutheran) OA Brotherhood Honor Chapter Vice Chief PL, SPL, Scribe ASM, SM, DL, CM Currently TroopCC, Dist Training Chair, OA Chapter Assoc. Advisor

OK, got a question. I should know this, but I don't. Taught a SM Specific course last week, and, armed with all of the collective knowledge of this forum, announced to the class, that "BSA Policy is to wear the uniform completely and correctly, or not at all"..."but a uniform is not required to be a Scout." So, the gentleman in the front row (there's always one in every crowd)asks, "WHere is that written?", so I showed him the Uniform Inspection Sheet. To which he replies, "I understand that defines what a complete uniform consists of, but where does it say that ONLY a complete uniform can be worn?" From his own uniform, it was obvious that he was from one of those Troops which has declared that blue jeans are close enough.

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Yes, the Cub leader patches were available with "mylar" threading. You can find them on eBay occasionally.

The Council Executive Board.

Great question! The technical answer is probably that when the SM signs the blue card and gives it to the scout, that is authorization to BEGIN working on the badge. The real-world answer is that it's probably up to the discretion of the MB counselor.

Welcome to those who have been flushed out of the shadows! The military and civil service is one area where pay is tied to the position, not the individual. A Captain with 10 years' service makes the same...male or female. A GS-13, step 5 makes the same, male or female. Momma, if you have a true gender discrimination case, you have an obligation to your gender to file a complaint. But just be sure that you have all the facts...(and I don't know what they are)...is the education and experience the same? Is the work produced the same? Do you take more time off than the males because of child care issues? I have males and females who work with me, and my observation is that whenever a kid gets sick, Mom stays home, because Dad is much too important and can't afford to take off. Or he has to save his vacation time for hunting season. The females want to get promoted...as long as they don't have to travel. Sorry, but the job requires travel, so the promotion goes to the one who is willing and able to do the work. Period. I hate to sound like a cold Scrooge, but I have a boss who expects certain things to get done, and I have to hire the people who can help me do that. Your family issues are your personal decisions, and certain decisions may have career consequences. You can't have it all, unless someone else picks up the slack somewhere. In my own family, we decided that my wife (an RN) would give up her $50,000 hospital job (today's dollars) and be a stay at home Mom until the youngest started school. When the youngest started school, she became a school nurse at half the pay...because the hours allowed her to be home when the kids were home. The result is, we are considerably behind our peers in wealth and "possessions". We've lived in the same house for 20 years. We don't have 3 rental properties and a vacation condo. We don't have a $50,000 SUV and a boat. We lived without cable until a few years ago. I passed up countless better jobs in big cities because we felt it was important that the kids grow up in our home town where they could see their grandparents, aunts and uncles whenver they wanted. Was it worth it? Absolutely. We have a lower net worth than our DINK friends, but we are wealthy beyond our dreams. It's all about choices and trade-offs. I don't disagree that discrimination still happents, but before you assume that the only difference is a Y-chromosome, make sure you have whole story.

I am a boomer...class of '54. I stepped up to be the District Training Chair, because there was no one else who did. We are a brand new district because ours split. All of the musk oxen happened to fall into the other districts, so I saw my break and went for it. The book says "You don't have to DO the training, just manage it." Yeah, right. The Dist Commissioner is having similar problems assembling a Commissioner staff, and after a year, still doesn't have a RT staff, or Unit Commissioners. Perhaps it is because when people are recruited, we are not upfront with them and the job "mushrooms" way beyond the "only one hour a week", and then they bail out. To do these jobs right, one can really have no other outside interests, IMHO, because there is something that needs doing every night of the week, if not actual meetings, then in preparation time. And that doesn't even include my Troop and OA commitments. It is disheartening to plan a training event, not to mention the personal time and money spent making copies, only to have ten people register and then only half of them actually show up. This week I had at least 10 people call my house to ask if they could still attend, because they had not pre-registered. I said "sure!", and then I had to scramble to find a bigger meeting room at the last minute. ONE of them showed up. Boy did I feel like a big SUCKER! It's not the "what's in it for me" attitude...it's the common rudeness that seems to be pervading our society at all levels. It's certainly not Scout-like. One recommendation I am going to make to the Council Training Chair is to have combined training events with multiple districts. I'd much rather help teach one course of 20 people than have to prepare for four courses of 5 each. My time is valuable, too, and I don't appreciate being taken for granted.

I agree, equal opportunity for all! In fact, I think an Affirmative Action program is in order, until the armed forces reflect the population as a whole...approximately 50/50. Let the draft begin! (or other suitable "public service", such as the WPA or CCC).

One thing I would recommend is to contact your District Training Chair and make sure that the Council training records reflect reality. I was recently given a printout for my district and they have some 30-year Wood Badge SMs listed as "untrained". Had I not known these people, I would have looked like an idiot when I told them they needed basic training. As Troop training coordinator, another thing you may want to do is encourage the adults to work toward their square knots (aka, "training awards"). I find that often, people have met the requirements, they just don't bother to submit the paperwork. It's nice to be able to recognize the adults at COH as well.

To train, guide and mentor the Senior Patrol Leader. Conduct SM Conferences. Deliver the SM Minute at the end of Troop Meetings. Become "Trained" and attend District Roundtables.

To clarify my remarks, I consider most restaurants that serve alcohol to be "public places" to which children are routinely admitted. Moderate amounts of alcohol are considered safe, and indeed some studies think it to be preventive of some disease processes. No amount of tobacco is "safe". And yes, smokers are litterbugs. Next time you are stopped at a red light, just look on the ground. Even our camp is littered with butts after parents' night from those who think nothing of tossing them on the ground. If you are the one exception who actually uses an ash tray, I applaud you. During our annual "Clean the Bay Day", in which the Troop of which I serve participates, statistics are kept. Annually, the number one item collected is "cigarette butts", even from the remotest, pristine beaches. And with only a small percentage of the population smoking, they still manage to make a big impression on those of us who have to clean up after their filthy habit. I would like to see a 10 cent deposit placed on each butt...my troop would be rich! To be fair, my vitriol is fueled by the fact that I lost my Dad to inoperable lung cancer at age 69. It is not something that your children should be forced to watch. Now we are losing my mother in law (age 70) to emphysema, and cardiovascular disease. Everyone's lives are disrupted, while we care for her until the inevitable slow suffocation takes it's toll. Again, not a pretty sight to see this once vibrant, active GS leader struggle and gasp for air just to get to the bathroom, and be heartbroken because we had to tell her last night it is no longer safe for her to have the grandkids spend the night without another adult present. No one has the right to affect others' lives like that because of a habit they refuse to stop (and don't tell me its' "too hard" -- you want hard, try holding your father's head in your arms while he cries from the pain and begs you to end his suffering). You can't convince me otherwise. A Scout is not selfish.

Safety must be your top priority. Explain the rules up front so that all can hear (even Mom), e.g. "no playing with fire" and "only adults can put things in or take things out of the fire" (this prevents the empty bug spray can from exploding). Allow the group one warning. Then on the next offense, put the fire out. Period. For the rest of the weekend. Peer pressure can be a wonderful tool.

I am known to quaff the occasional brew. Probably no more than a case a year, were I to keep track. So, following the impeccable logic of the smokers, I will feel free to sneak off into the woods for a cold one. - it doesn't affect anyone else, as long as I'm not legally inebriated - you can see people drinking in public places all the time, so it can't be a bad role model - if scouts start drinking because they see me drink, it's the result of poor parenting - it's not illegal, since I'm over 21 - and unlike most smokers, I will deposit my trash in a proper recepticle (it's even RECYCLABLE!), and will channel the effluent from my body so that others don't inhale it - and, regardless of what the G2SS says, it's not logical, so they probably really don't mean it that way

It's about the journey...not the destination.

Based on Rooster's G2ss discussion, I guess our annual "War on the River" at summer camp is a thing of the past. The kids will be heartbroken. It involved water balloons (simulated grenades), and swamping each others' canoes...in waist deep water. I guess we'll need another highlight of the week. A "speed-knitting" contest, perhaps.

I can envision reasons why adults would overrule the decisions of the PLC, albeit very rarely. But those reasons should be communicated and be crystal clear to the boys. If your son can not explain to you what those reasons were, then a private, non-threatening chat with the SM is not out of order. As you say, tact can go a long way to settling a dispute.

How can you tell if you're in a National Scout Shop vs. a Local Council-owned shop? The employees will be in full uniform, with gold loops, no council strip, and an "Employee" position patch. It will also be well-stocked with just about every item and publication in the catalog. Some that come to mind that I have visited are at the National Scouting Museum in Irving, and National Capital Area Council in Bethesda, MD.

I am an eBayer....I do it because my Dr advised me to "get a hobby...find something that you enjoy and do it for the pure fun of it." I'll have to admit, Scouting used to fit that description, but the more I learn about the District and Council and even unit politics, the more it feels like "work". I collect Scouting memorabilia, but like the others, only things that have a personal meaning to me...like from my council or OA lodge, or CSPs of councils I have visited, or replacements for things I used to have, but my Mother thought should go to the Thrift Store. My first year of summer camp was 1966...I now have 3 of those patches from eBay. Why? Because I don't want some dealer in Oregon to have them. They are special to me. I have never been to Philmont, therefore I have no Philmont items. My last 3 uniform shirts have come from eBay...like new, but half the cost. My favorite is the one with a DL patch on it and advertised as "worn only once"! (LOL)

It's not important what we think. What do the Scouts think? As you said, it's their money.

If he is a SM, the SPL should fill out and submit the Scoutmaster's Award of Merit application to the Troop Committee.

To those who dare criticize a woman's (or woman-child's) decision to have an abortion, I have just one question. How many have you adopted? Rhetoric and preaching are fine, but worthless. If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I have seen first hand how some of these children are raised and the living conditions that a poor, 14 year old unwed mother can provide (along with the 25 year old grandmother, if she's lucky). No, I am not "for" abortion. But neither am I "for" bringing an unwanted, unloved child into the world, to a "parent" who cannot care for it either financially or emotionally.

I'm sure it was due to the support from the Girl Scouts! I saw prominent signs in the crowd on the news..."Girl Scouts for Arnold"!!!