scoutldr

Control of rank patches is to prevent "stockpiling" by units. The Councils want to make sure the advancement reports get filed properly, thus preventing embarrassing problems when a scout files his Eagle application. If anyone wants to impersonate an Eagle Scout, by wearing a medal, rank patch or square knot, he can get whatever he needs on Ebay.

As I post this, there are 757 active users. I have seen twice that number. I would hope that some of those are professionals (other than Dave and commando), and those who work in Irving. I know of nowhere else where you can get honest opinions and guage the climate of the program nationwide. I also hope that some good potential Scouters, both volunteer and pro, are not put off by the childish bickering.

Stretch goal: if you make it, you can claim credit for it. If you don't make it, it must not have been realistic, and it's not your fault.

A good indicator might come from the supply division. How many AOL patches get sold each year?

Yep...I could buy the knots without question. Rank patches are more controlled...they won't sell any without an advancement report...but I think it depends on who is behind the counter.

Go to the Scout Shop and buy one. I just did this to "decorate" a new shirt I got on eBay. Bought an Eagle knot, too, among others, ... no questions asked, other than "cash or charge?"

Oh, geeez...here we go again. Eamonn, as a Cuban friend of mine says..."sometimes it's better to let lying dogs sleep."

Here is a link to a typical QD worksheet: http://www.dacbsa.org/DAC-SS/ss-goals.htm#National%20Quality%20District%20Worksheet:

The local GS council was highlighted in the newspaper a few years ago. The council camp has been "transformed" with air conditioned cabins, because "today's girls don't like sweat, dirt and bugs." That's the image I have. That could also be why girl scouts are lining up to be Venturers.

The quoted description is pretty clear to me. As far as I know, "Den Aide" is not a registered position, but has been used unofficially, e.g., a Girl Scout daughter of a Den Leader who helps out with den meetings.

You're late for work in the morning because your sleeping bag zipper got stuck. You can do all of your Christmas shopping on eBay in the "Scout" section. You laugh at all the people who spent $30 on a "S'Mores Maker" (a fancy Sterno holder) for Christmas...and think "why didn't I think of that?" You're considered the "go to" guy at work when they need to know which side of the stage the flag should go for retirement ceremonies. (They also look at you funny when you suggest the "watermelon cheer" should be added to the program.)

Suffice it to say that Eammon's council is not the only one offering free registration as an enticement to grow numbers at the end of the year. Nothing sneaky about it, though...it's advertised on our website. Just the normal recruiting methods...no herding them into the corral and locking the gate.

The best thing I received (1970)was the Eagle medal, and the lifetime of honor and obligation that came with it. Your son will appreciate that more in 30 years than he does now. Don't recall receiving anything else, other than cards of congratulations from out of town relatives.

I am curious about your statement on "on-line training" records. The only online training I am aware of is Youth Protection and Fast Start. And not all councils are participating in those. Is there other online training available somewhere? Also, I've been told that training that occurred prior to the implementation of ScoutNet will not be listed in the computer. I have Scouters with 35 years of tenure, who wear the Silver Beaver and Woodbadge beads...but the "official" printout lists them as "untrained". Go figure. I realize that it takes time and effort to input historical records, but why have a database if the reports it generates are not accurate? The other point Dave makes is that the Scout's handbook/blue card IS the official record, should there be a disagreement, so I've been taught. Problem is that when a scout's book gets trashed or lost and he gets a new one, all of the advancement information needs to be transcribed into the new book. Seldom does this happen, in my experience. Good Luck. I think the best advice is to contact the scout's prior unit leader and keep track of your own training documentation.

If your kits are the official BSA Trail Chef kits, replacement parts are available at www.scoutstuff.org. The large fry pan is $13.60

The problem, Dan is that most COs and CORs don't want to be involved more than they are. They will sign the charter and provide a meeting place, and, providing your scouts don't trash the place, it's a commensal relationship. Heck, we even have to pay our own charter fee out of troop funds. In my experience, how many CORs attend District Committee meetings? Zero. How many attend the Council annual meeting? Zero. Do they WANT to be voting members of the BSA? Probably not. My sense is that they are ignorant of their role in the BSA organizational structure...and they are content in their ignorance. I'll grant there are exceptions...but few and far between.

Girls are just as bad these days. Just go hang out at the local mall and keep your ears open. They hear it on TV constantly, and won't buy a CD unless it has a "Parental Advisory" label on it. Parents don't care. So if we are to make a difference, it's up to us. We tried the "quarter jar" since one of our ASMs is a merchant mariner, and raises "sailor's language" to an art form. He doesn't even realize he's doing it. Now, he just chucks a $20 bill in the jar on Friday night and says "There, that should cover me for the weekend."

Aye, FOG, there's the rub. We "safety geeks" don't go around thinking up ways to kill your fun. We go around trying to think of all the ways people can be stupid and then try to engineer the process so that they can't make that choice. As a former boss of mine once said, we have to educate the "defiantly ignorant." Everyone agrees that fireworks are not allowed in camp...why in the world would a black powder cannon be acceptable? We never had a cannon at my camp. I still had a good time and didn't grow up warped. OK, well I had a good time, anyway.

Well, I ignored the naysayers and sent a box of stuff anyway. Got a nice letter back from Barbara Green on official American Red Cross letterhead, thanking me for thinking of the young men and women who are sacrificing for our freedom. Well, OK, it was a form letter, addressed to "Dear Patriot". They must have had a good response which necessitated the use of a form letter. Kinda gave me a warm feeling anyway. Best money I've spent all year. Merry Christmas and God Bless America and our Troops overseas. Scoutldr (aka, Patriot)

Those citations sound like typical OSHA violations. The Council was cited because it is an employer and the camp staff are employees. They are covered by OSHA law. Volunteers and scouts are not. However, that does not relieve Councils from civil and criminal liability. As OSH (occupational safety and health) professionals, we are taught that there is no such thing as an "accident". There are only unsafe acts and unsafe conditions. Both are prevented by inspecting the environment, training, enforcement of rules, and, as a last resort, PPE (personal protective equipment). We also recognize that there is no such thing as "zero risk". However, with today's litigious parents and lawyers, we need to get as close to zero as we can. It always amazes me that the climbing ropes have their usage logged and recorded so that they can be replaced on schedule, but the camp 5-ton truck is allowed to be operated for 2 years without any brakes and 8 year old cub scouts are allowed to feed limbs into a chipper without eye or ear protection. If I were to put my "safety man" hat on, the camp would be shut down. The money is not there. The emphasis is on doing the minimum necessary to get the accreditation pennant.

THe council in which I serve charges $6 per course, or $10 for both NLE and CSLS if taken together. They are told to bring their own Leader books, but I am told we must cover Insurance(?), Council "administrative fee", training card, Trained strip, certificate, and handouts at 9 cents each (which I usually pay for myself at Kinko's). We never miss an opportunity to reach into the wallet of a volunteer. Thanks for explaining the situation so well. The logistics are hard, and my training team consists of me and one other, who is a newbie. Pre-registration is one of my pet peeves...people just do not do it...then the weekend before they are calling my house wanting special dispensation. Or they just "walk in" which means I then have to scramble to find them a seat, handouts, handle their money, etc. I have ONE TV/VCR...if I'm lucky. Power point projectors? Council has one, but they don't loan it out. Spare bulbs are over $100 each, so I don't blame them. One thing I plan to do is force the "Pack Trainer" issue. I will train the Pack Trainers, but then all CSLS will be done at the unit level. Of course, we will still offer it 1-2 times per year for new units. The original point of this thread was that the current curriculum is hard. Hard to present, and hard (and expensive) for volunteers to keep getting retrained each year of the CS program. I heard they were revising it again...which it sorely needs, and I would like to know which direction they are heading with it. PS: With regard to Fast Start...when I ask them in NLE if they have had FS training, I get the "deer in the headlights" look. It ain't being done. Should I send them home and tell them to come back when they have met the pre-requisites? *he asked, rhetorically* (This message has been edited by scoutldr)(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

ds said, "From a pure dollars and sense point of view, attending an out of council camp takes money away from your council and puts it in another council's coffers." That's true, but if you have OOC troops coming to your camp to replace them, who cares? The goal should be a two warm, paying bodies in every tent, every week. And the "warm" part is optional. It shouldn't matter what CSP they wear. As others say, there are 3 things that will help that..."Program, program and program."

In another post, someone referred to the current CS leader training curriculum, which requires retraining at every level of progression through the program. Leaders starting out in Tiger Cubs get trained as a Tiger Leader. Then the next year, they have to get retrained as a DL (and pay another fee). Then WL. Then CM or committee member (MC). There are specific training codes in ScoutNet for each course. My dilemma is that when a course is advertised by Council, it is simply "CS Leader Specific", so out of a random group of 5-10 scouters who sign up, I have a mix requiring 4-5 instructors...IF I present the training as it's designed. The District expects me to offer the training multiple times throughout the year, so offering the position segments separately would be a logistical nightmare what with printing flyers, reserving meeting rooms, etc. There seems to be a shortage of meeting rooms...most churches are overbooked, and the local schools require reservations months in advance. Forget about the Council Service Center, as its usually stacked to the rafters with popcorn and in use for other, "more important" meetings. I have also heard that a new training curriculum is on its way from National. Anyone got the inside scoop on this? How can I submit input?

It took me two seconds to recognize the operative term, "unlawful discrimination". Unless the Supreme Court reverses its decision, the BSA policy is, by definition, lawful and constitutional. And unless the city changes its policy regarding public accomodation, I see nothing changing.

I think the important thing is that every scout attend a long-term camp SOMEWHERE. Some councils charge an extra fee for out-of-council (OOC) troops, so it seems to me they make MORE money than if we go to our own camp. In a boy-led troop, if the PLC decides that the camp program is "lame", or if they simply don't want to go back to the same camp for the fifth year in a row, the adult leaders are obligated to help them do that. Most troops in my council rotate camps among the 4 or 5 that are within a half-day's drive. Our own camp often has more OOC campers in a given week than scouts from our own council. I make a point to speak to these OOC leaders and guage their experience at our camp vs. other camps. Surprisingly, ours rates very high in comparison. Each camp has different programs to offer and, in my opinion, the Scouting experience is enhanced by trying new things and seeing new places. I think Dave's comments were just a little unfair, blaming troops who go OOC for contributing to his dilemma, but I chalked them up to the emotion of his unfortunate circumstances. But let's focus on marketing a quality and varied program to ensure every tent is filled every week. Take a lesson from the major theme parks like Busch Gardens. They introduce and market a new thrill ride every year, to keep people coming back. Otherwise, it's "been there, done that, got a T-shirt", and we don't need to go back.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)