scoutldr

In my eBay ramblings, I stumbled upon an interesting concept...a Venture crew is making up and selling "unofficial" square knots. Some that are being advertised are BSA Lifeguard, Historical Trails Award, Vigil Honor, Alpha Phi Omega, Wood Badge, etc. Some of these strike me as good ideas, and some (Wood Badge) seem redundant. Before the UP pull up to my house and demand to inspect my uniforms, I realize that these are not for official use, but I guess as Venturers, they are taking the "do your own thing" concept to new heights. They are also producing standard BSA square knots on different color base fabrics, to better match the uniform colors (forest green, white, black). Since I made Eagle as an Explorer, my original square knot is on a dark green background. I guess my real question is, how does one submit an idea to National for a new square knot and why would they not consider it?

That was me, I think. I just said that memory is deep in my brain from when I was about 12 years old....I have no idea if it's true or not. I seem to remember that green was for youths and red was for adults and Explorers. If someone has a BSA Uniform and Equipment catalog from around the 1966 time frame they would be in there. Even back then they were relatively expensive...when you could get a complete uniform, including hat and socks for under 20 bucks.

Lincoln's Declaration of Amnesty required that the "rebels" repent and renew their allegiance to the United States and swear a written loyalty oath before God. If Mr. Hamdi is willing to do that, we can reconsider.::: Whereas it is now desired by some persons heretofore engaged in said rebellion to resume their allegiance to the United States and to reinaugurate loyal State governments within and for their respective States: Therefore, I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, do proclaim, declare, and make known to all persons who have, directly or by implication, participated in the existing rebellion, except as hereinafter excepted, that a full pardon is hereby granted to them and each of them, with restoration of all rights of property, except as to slaves and in property cases where rights of third parties shall have intervened, and upon the condition that every such person shall take and subscribe an oath and thenceforward keep and maintain said oath inviolate, and which oath shall be registered for permanent preservation and shall be of the tenor and effect following, to wit: "I, ________, do solemnly swear, in presence of Almighty God, that I will henceforth faithfully support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Union of the States thereunder; and that I will in like manner abide by and faithfully support all acts of Congress passed during the existing rebellion with reference to slaves, so long and so far as not repealed, modified, or held void by Congress or by decision of the Supreme Court; and that I will in like manner abide by and faithfully support all proclamations of the President made during the existing rebellion having reference to slaves, so long and so far as not modified or declared void by decision of the Supreme Court. So help me God."

More about the statue at Mr. Boyce's grave: "THE BOY SCOUT" by famed sculptor, Dr. R. Tait McKenzie. He was a surgeon, physical educator, artist, and sculptor. A personal friend of Lord Baden-Powell, founder of Scouting, Dr. McKenzie was a member of the Philadelphia Council Executive Board from 1911 to his death in 1938. When asked in 1914 to create something tangible "that would stand as a symbol of what Scouting stood for," Dr. McKenzie sculpted his beloved statue portraying the "Ideal Boy Scout." The sculptor portrayed in his statue the grand traits of character he knew the movement to install in a boy. To Dr. McKenzie, the uncovered head represented reverence and obedience; the ax on which the hand rests was a symbol of George Washington's truthfulness. Later this statue was redone life size and unveiled on the front patio of the Philadelphia Council Scout Service Center on June 12, 1937. The Philadelphia Council sells these life-size cast bronze statues only as an accommodation. After the original was cast in 1937, a duplicate was cast for erection facing the grave of W. D. Boyce. No more heroic-sized statues were cast until 1954, when the Philadelphia Scouts and Scouters presented a statue to the National Council Office at New Brunswick, New Jersey (national offices have since relocated to Irving, TX). Since then, 31 statues have been cast and are located at Gilwell Park in England, National Headquarters of the Boy Scouts of Canada, University of Pennsylvania, and at Scout Service Centers and Camps all over the nation. Each of the life-size statues weighs 500 pounds and stands 6' foot tall. They are individually cast, which is a time consuming process. It usually takes about 6 months for each casting. Considerable time, effort, and skill is required to supervise the casting. This is done by the Sculptor-in-Residence at Princeton University, one of Tait McKenzie's students. He approves the location of each statue. The price of "THE BOY SCOUT" is determined by the cost of casting at the foundry, and includes the casting and inspection. The purchaser pays for transportation charges, preparation of the base, and the mounting at its location.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=2572&pt=William%20Boyce This is a cool website where you can search for the graves of famous (and infamous!) people. Includes photos of Mr. Boyce and of the grave site. Location is Ottawa Ave Cemetery, Ottawa, LaSalle County, IL

Anyone who moves to a foreign country and takes up arms against the United States, has voluntarily relinquished any rights he had as a citizen. In response to the question in the subject line...who cares?

Varsity, Venturing, Exploring, Learning for Life, Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Order of the Arrow, Mic-O-Say, etc. Seems to me we are trying too hard to fill every perceived gap in a youth's (and volunteer's) time. Like many corporations, it is my opinion that BSA needs to re-examine it's mission and return to it's core business. As the Department of Defense is realizing, by devoting infrastructure and resources to activities that do little to advance the core mission (warfighting), it dilutes the ability to complete that mission. Many councils are being forced to sell their council camps in order to remain financially solvent. In my opinion, their priorities need to be rearranged.

Professionals who "take over" and do the jobs of the volunteers, because it's not being done "their way" or at the rate they think it should be done. Volunteers who think "the Professionals work for us." Council Executive Boards who let the SE dictate to them. Old Scouters who are still in it for the "social club", sit around with a coffee cup, getting in the way, and doing nothing to help the boys.

Thanks, Eammon. We're not "scouting" we are "creating memories". You and the youth will never forget that trip.

Hire the best and brightest camp staff you can find. This will mean paying them more than they can make by working 1/3 the hours at McDonalds. At staff week, tell them that the Scouts and Scouters are CUSTOMERS, and their evaluations and bonuses (yes, Bonuses!) will depend on how happy their customers are at the end of the week. Fire the "smile police" (those whose job it is to find a scout having fun and then finding a rule that says he can't). Have enough rules to ensure safety, but eliminate those whose only purpose is to aggravate people and encourage them to camp elsewhere next year. Have a program for adults as well...offer training during the week, and if someone with a special skill offers to help, welcome him/her warmly instead of "thanks, but WE are the staff and if we need you we'll let you know." Do not overlook the food. A 15 year old scout offered a single pancake and one sausage link for breakfast will NOT be happy. And be sure to offer adult friendly choices, for those whose scouting "rounded them out", such as salads. Do some research and get copies of other camp's program guides. Incorporate the best of each of them.

I feel this thread is coming unravelled. Darn it!

Thanks for the discussion, although it is slightly off track now. I saw one of my fellow Training Chairs from another District at the scout shop this morning, and she said that the new "draft policy" was discussed at the Commissioner's meeting as a "done deal". In this Council we have a high turnover of leaders due to military transfers. We are lucky to keep a leader for a year, due to deployments, much less their whole 3 year tour. We have a few SMs with 20-30 year tenure, but they are rare. The cub side is even worse. Most packs and dens change leadership every year. Our training stat hovers at around 30% and I don't know how possible it is to improve that, but we will be expected to do it anyhow. As Dave said, it's apparently local option. I also appreciate Bob's input from National...but I find it interesting that so many Councils thought of the same idea this year independently. As far as CO's role being usurped, I think most don't care. As someone else said, most are not involved in selecting leaders...they just sign the form. If there is going to be mandatory training for anyone, they should start with the CORs. It will be interesting to see how many Units we lose at the end of the year because untrained leaders get dropped from the rolls.

My wife is a nurse, and she taught me a trick. Always carry a tube of cake frosting...in the squeeze tube. Someone who is unconscious cannot swallow liquids or take a glucose tablet. Squeeze the frosting "between the cheek and gum" and massage it in. The sugar will absorb through the mucous membranes. Keep it in your Troop first aid kit and another in your pack. The advice to teach others the signs and symptoms of hyper- and hypoglycemia, so that they will know how to react is valuable. And wear a Medic-Alert bracelet or necklace.

Hi Aqua, and welcome to the campfire! Don't get too close and drip on it! I am a Lifeguard Counselor. The BSA Lifeguard Counselor Guide has all the lesson plans in it. You should not deviate from it. My biggest complaint is that Scouts show up with Swimming and Lifesaving MB on their sash, but can't swim the length of the pool with any semblance of a "strong manner". Too many camps are Merit Badge mills and all the scout has to do is show up for a majority of the sessions and he gets the badge, then he's disappointed when he finds that BSALG is not a "gimme". There was another thread on this forum several months ago (do a search on "Lifeguard" which discussed these issues. BSA Lifeguard, properly taught, is a rigorous course, both physically and mentally. I firmly believe this is one course where shortcuts should not be allowed, because the skills not learned can cost a life one day. You should also make sure that the potential candidates understand that CPR certification is required and/or arrange to have it taught along with the BSALG course. I hate spending a week teaching a course and having to give them a partial. Sorry for the soapbox. I probably didn't answer your question.

An interesting historical tidbit: The Delaware tribe were indigenous to the southeastern Pennsylvania area (home of Treasure Island Scout Reservation where OA was founded). The German settlers of Pennsylvania (my ancestors) were the first to write down the language of the Delaware, or "Lenni Lenape", and they spelled the words phonetically...in German. If you have a scout taking German, ask him to pronounce the Lenni Lenape word as if it were a German word...and it will be pretty close. FWIW

I didn't say "opt out" of IOLS. I just said there's now an alternate way of completing the requirement rather than going to a scheduled, formal course. Our professional advisor to the Training Committee initiated it, and there was, predictably, lots of grousing from the "silverbacks."...but we're doing it and it's apparently "legal". Further clarification: the "mandatory requirement" has been clarified to apply to "Unit Leaders", but it was emphasized that the meaning is "anyone whose primary registration is with a Unit." This excludes MB counsellors, Commissioners, etc. ONe thing I predict is there will be a lot of switching of primary registrations.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

We are doing that now, sort of. The new Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills allows for an experienced person to "test out" of the course by demonstrating to (or learning from) a "Mentor" that they have an adequate knowledge of Scoutcraft (requirements through First Class level) to train their Junior Leaders. The formal weekend outdoor course is no longer required. I had planned to introduce this as a new thread, but I am curious if others are using this method? Do you accept the signed check off list from anyone, or do you have lists of approved "Mentors" at the District level (a la the MB Counselor concept)? (We are doing the latter, and it was proposed today that we use knowledgeable Venturers to serve as Mentors).

OGE, I agree with the concept...as a goal, not a requirement. If a leader is functioning adequately, but hasn't earned the "Trained" strip for some reason, are you going to strip him/her of membership anyway? Some will quit, rather than comply simply because they don't like being dictated to by Council. Some trainers may quit, simply because they are already maxed out on the amount of time their spouse or job will abide. "Ready, fire, aim."

I frequently serve as the District rep at Eagle Boards. Your BOR should have been 24 hours ago. We're all waiting ... what did you think?

In another thread, someone (I can't find it now) alluded to their Council's new policy of making Leader training mandatory in the coming year. The council in which I serve has also drafted a policy which we are now discussing in the Training Committee. In essence, the draft states that any "Leader" (not further defined) who was on the rolls prior to November 1, 2004 will NOT be eligible to continue their membership if they have not been basic trained in their registered position. All of our units recharter in December. To facilitate this, training fees will not be charged. It's been factored into the Council budget. Before I solidify and voice my opinions, I would like to know if this is a Nation-wide initiative? What is driving this? What are your thoughts?

Dave, if you know a member of NESA, the quarterly Eagletter always has order forms for replacement Eagle "credentials". They now have plastic wallet cards, too. I think you'll have to settle for current signatures, tho.

Control of rank patches is to prevent "stockpiling" by units. The Councils want to make sure the advancement reports get filed properly, thus preventing embarrassing problems when a scout files his Eagle application. If anyone wants to impersonate an Eagle Scout, by wearing a medal, rank patch or square knot, he can get whatever he needs on Ebay.

As I post this, there are 757 active users. I have seen twice that number. I would hope that some of those are professionals (other than Dave and commando), and those who work in Irving. I know of nowhere else where you can get honest opinions and guage the climate of the program nationwide. I also hope that some good potential Scouters, both volunteer and pro, are not put off by the childish bickering.

Stretch goal: if you make it, you can claim credit for it. If you don't make it, it must not have been realistic, and it's not your fault.

A good indicator might come from the supply division. How many AOL patches get sold each year?