scoutldr

In "my" council, all Eagle Boards are conducted by the unit committee with a District Representative present. Some councils still conduct BoRs only at the District or Council level. Your District Advancement Chairman should be able to answer your question.

"SERVICE STARS ARE WORN AT THE OPTION OF THE WEARER" What makes the stars any more optional than any other insignia? I checked the latest Uniform and Insignia Guide, and it is silent, except for a note on p. 42, which says "Service stars may be worn by all youth and adult members who have at least one year of tenure with the Boy Scouts of America...." I guess since it says "may" rather than "shall" or "must", it's "optional."

Just realized we haven't seen dsteele for a while and did a search. He signed off on Jan 14th. Somehow I missed that. Dave's honest, forthright and credible contributions to this forum have been invaluable to me, and I miss him. With the knowledge I have gained of the Pros, my own relationship with my DE has become more friendly and productive. I hope he's lurking....Dave, come back! Just an hour a week?????

"Then we have the people who KNOW that something is wrong but do it anyway. The 50 year old guys that I see wearing Tiger Cub service stars are a good example. I've asked a couple about it and they say that they know it is wrong but they want to show that they were involved with Tiger Cubs." I am willing to be proven wrong (and there is no dearth of colleagues here who are up to the challenge!), but it is my recollection that, in the early days of Tiger Cubs, both youth and adult partner were registered together as members of the Pack. Adults were then able to wear the orange service star showing their registered status for that year. The orange backgrounds have since been eliminated and all cubs wear the yellow and adult registered leaders wear the blue. I personally wear all four, yellow, green, red and blue, showing my actual tenure in the various programs. I know it is permissible for adults to combine all of their years into a single blue star, but I think that is inaccurate and misleading. Not that anyone cares. I have a bigger problem with Scouts and Scouters (the majority of them, by my observation), who don't bother to wear stars at all. That's just lazy.

According to the article, the family has requested donations to the Alex Plucknett Scholarship Fund. c/o Educational Community Credit Union 623 N Main St Jacksonville, FL 32202 Mike, if there's a Scouting related memorial fund that's different from this, please let us know.

You're overanalyzing, Fuzzy. It could be that there was a moose puppet laying around the studio from some other defunct show, and some stage hand said, "Hey, why don't you use Mr. Moose here!" Voila! A legend is born. As the good Dr. Freud once said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

I left my troop at age 14 as a Life Scout and joined an Explorer Post at the urging of my high school buddies. I made Eagle 2 years later, due in no small part to my Post Advisor's foot in my backside most of the time. I was also Chapter Vice Chief, and my Post Advisor was also Chapter Advisor. He won the Silver Beaver, Vigil Honor and OA Distinguished service award. During that time, Exploring went Co-ed. The girls who joined were also Girl Scouts. As I recall, our Post (Fire and Rescue) provided first aid/ambulance service at all OA events and the girls were right there with us, although not "members" of the OA. If it were not for that opportunity, I probably would have tired of teaching knots to 11 year olds and dropped out. My Post Advisor passed away in 1986 and was honored with a Fireman's funeral. The church was packed with uniformed firemen and Scouters and the route to the cemetery was lined with saluting police officers and fire fighters at every intersection as his flag draped casket was borne on the back of a fire engine. I was crying so hard, my wife had to drive. Next to my Dad, he was the most important man in my life. 18 years later, I am still scouting. I have a lot to repay. What does this have to do with flaps? I don't know. But anything that keeps kids (male or female) in the program is a good thing.

When you think of how quick and easy it is to lose a life, it's a wonder we manage to get our kids raised to adulthood, as I have been allowed to do. I am blessed. Why these things happen, we will never know. My intellect tells me that no loving, merciful God would allow such things to happen, especially when it punishes so many, not the least of whom are Alex's dad and brother, who tried to do the right thing. Like Job, I want to scream out and curse God. I don't understand. I want to understand. I pray to understand. Mike, please pass on our condolences. Your boys are in for a tough time. Let us know how we can help our brother scouts and Scouters.

I can sympathize with Eammon. I am getting of the age (get my AARP card this year!) where the bones ache and nature calls several times a night (compounded by too much hot coffee to stay warm!). Cold makes me just plain miserable. We rarely get snow here, and camping in cold, wet muddy conditions is about the worst I can think of. But that should not stop anyone else who enjoys it. Our "Freezoree" is in February. Just a weekend campout for anyone in the Council who wants to show up. The OA sponsors it and offers a special patch. Spring Camporee is in April, and the standing joke is that it is usually 60-70 degrees for the Freezoree and then we freeze (and get wet) in the Spring. Like someone else said...it's the Unit leadership's job to make sure their troop is trained and prepared. Present lots of cold weather topics at Roundtable. Make sure every scout knows the symptoms and treatment for hypothermia. I always make sure to have a couple of spare sleeping bags and blankets in the car. If kids get wet (or sleeping bags get wet from rain), and we can't get them dry quickly, we go home.

Gotta watch out for those Momorms, though. I hear they eat Beagles.

Simple solution to the original question...if the Scout does not want to wear the flap, he just needs to quit paying his Lodge dues. The SM has nothing to say about it. Seriously, the SM needs to get a life and quit harrassing the kids over things that are not important. I have a bigger problem with the 75% of "Arrowpersons" who are elected, go through their Ordeal, and then we never see them again...but continue to wear the flap as if they are active members.

"The trainers out there deserve a lot of respect for what they do , sometimes because no one else will do it." Thanks for the compliment...and that's more true than you imagine. I have two people on my District training team...myself and one other who is willing to help, but just doesn't know the program that well to be cut loose on his own yet. There are a few others who will help out an hour here and there, but not full time. With that, we do all Cub and all BS training. Yes, I know we are not doing Cub Specific correctly...but we do what we can with what we have. Council advertises them as one course...otherwise I would need to spend five times more evenings and have courses of onesies and twosies. It takes as much effort on the trainers part to teach two people as it does 30. Sorry, but that's not an efficient use of my time. I am devoting about as much time to Scouting as I can...any more and I will have to retain a good divorce lawyer. I have no doubt that the SEs have gotten together and decided to do this...whether National agrees or not. Maybe they have their own forum somewhere. My Council's "draft policy" has been softened somewhat...now they are talking about a "goal" of 100% trained with a phase in period. What frosted me was that this was decided in private meetings without the benefit of talking to the Council training chairman or the District Trainers who are expected to implement this edict. It was presented as "here's what we want...now do it." And I keep hearing, "well the Girl Scouts don't seem to have a problem with it." NJCubScouter's council policy is the most draconian yet. While it may be a "good idea" in concept, what I object to is the heavy-handed and unilateral way in which it's being dictated. We're "volunteers", remember? I do this because I like it...for now.

So, these kids have to pay THEM for the privilege of working in the trading post? Reminds me of the time I was visiting a scout shop in another state and the lady behind the counter was telling me she was getting ready to leave for the Jamboree to work on staff...and her SE was making her use vacation time for the privilege. If it's for the good of the program, can't we at least give them Admin Leave? Sheesh.

In my eBay ramblings, I stumbled upon an interesting concept...a Venture crew is making up and selling "unofficial" square knots. Some that are being advertised are BSA Lifeguard, Historical Trails Award, Vigil Honor, Alpha Phi Omega, Wood Badge, etc. Some of these strike me as good ideas, and some (Wood Badge) seem redundant. Before the UP pull up to my house and demand to inspect my uniforms, I realize that these are not for official use, but I guess as Venturers, they are taking the "do your own thing" concept to new heights. They are also producing standard BSA square knots on different color base fabrics, to better match the uniform colors (forest green, white, black). Since I made Eagle as an Explorer, my original square knot is on a dark green background. I guess my real question is, how does one submit an idea to National for a new square knot and why would they not consider it?

That was me, I think. I just said that memory is deep in my brain from when I was about 12 years old....I have no idea if it's true or not. I seem to remember that green was for youths and red was for adults and Explorers. If someone has a BSA Uniform and Equipment catalog from around the 1966 time frame they would be in there. Even back then they were relatively expensive...when you could get a complete uniform, including hat and socks for under 20 bucks.

Lincoln's Declaration of Amnesty required that the "rebels" repent and renew their allegiance to the United States and swear a written loyalty oath before God. If Mr. Hamdi is willing to do that, we can reconsider.::: Whereas it is now desired by some persons heretofore engaged in said rebellion to resume their allegiance to the United States and to reinaugurate loyal State governments within and for their respective States: Therefore, I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, do proclaim, declare, and make known to all persons who have, directly or by implication, participated in the existing rebellion, except as hereinafter excepted, that a full pardon is hereby granted to them and each of them, with restoration of all rights of property, except as to slaves and in property cases where rights of third parties shall have intervened, and upon the condition that every such person shall take and subscribe an oath and thenceforward keep and maintain said oath inviolate, and which oath shall be registered for permanent preservation and shall be of the tenor and effect following, to wit: "I, ________, do solemnly swear, in presence of Almighty God, that I will henceforth faithfully support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Union of the States thereunder; and that I will in like manner abide by and faithfully support all acts of Congress passed during the existing rebellion with reference to slaves, so long and so far as not repealed, modified, or held void by Congress or by decision of the Supreme Court; and that I will in like manner abide by and faithfully support all proclamations of the President made during the existing rebellion having reference to slaves, so long and so far as not modified or declared void by decision of the Supreme Court. So help me God."

More about the statue at Mr. Boyce's grave: "THE BOY SCOUT" by famed sculptor, Dr. R. Tait McKenzie. He was a surgeon, physical educator, artist, and sculptor. A personal friend of Lord Baden-Powell, founder of Scouting, Dr. McKenzie was a member of the Philadelphia Council Executive Board from 1911 to his death in 1938. When asked in 1914 to create something tangible "that would stand as a symbol of what Scouting stood for," Dr. McKenzie sculpted his beloved statue portraying the "Ideal Boy Scout." The sculptor portrayed in his statue the grand traits of character he knew the movement to install in a boy. To Dr. McKenzie, the uncovered head represented reverence and obedience; the ax on which the hand rests was a symbol of George Washington's truthfulness. Later this statue was redone life size and unveiled on the front patio of the Philadelphia Council Scout Service Center on June 12, 1937. The Philadelphia Council sells these life-size cast bronze statues only as an accommodation. After the original was cast in 1937, a duplicate was cast for erection facing the grave of W. D. Boyce. No more heroic-sized statues were cast until 1954, when the Philadelphia Scouts and Scouters presented a statue to the National Council Office at New Brunswick, New Jersey (national offices have since relocated to Irving, TX). Since then, 31 statues have been cast and are located at Gilwell Park in England, National Headquarters of the Boy Scouts of Canada, University of Pennsylvania, and at Scout Service Centers and Camps all over the nation. Each of the life-size statues weighs 500 pounds and stands 6' foot tall. They are individually cast, which is a time consuming process. It usually takes about 6 months for each casting. Considerable time, effort, and skill is required to supervise the casting. This is done by the Sculptor-in-Residence at Princeton University, one of Tait McKenzie's students. He approves the location of each statue. The price of "THE BOY SCOUT" is determined by the cost of casting at the foundry, and includes the casting and inspection. The purchaser pays for transportation charges, preparation of the base, and the mounting at its location.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=2572&pt=William%20Boyce This is a cool website where you can search for the graves of famous (and infamous!) people. Includes photos of Mr. Boyce and of the grave site. Location is Ottawa Ave Cemetery, Ottawa, LaSalle County, IL

Anyone who moves to a foreign country and takes up arms against the United States, has voluntarily relinquished any rights he had as a citizen. In response to the question in the subject line...who cares?

Varsity, Venturing, Exploring, Learning for Life, Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Order of the Arrow, Mic-O-Say, etc. Seems to me we are trying too hard to fill every perceived gap in a youth's (and volunteer's) time. Like many corporations, it is my opinion that BSA needs to re-examine it's mission and return to it's core business. As the Department of Defense is realizing, by devoting infrastructure and resources to activities that do little to advance the core mission (warfighting), it dilutes the ability to complete that mission. Many councils are being forced to sell their council camps in order to remain financially solvent. In my opinion, their priorities need to be rearranged.

Professionals who "take over" and do the jobs of the volunteers, because it's not being done "their way" or at the rate they think it should be done. Volunteers who think "the Professionals work for us." Council Executive Boards who let the SE dictate to them. Old Scouters who are still in it for the "social club", sit around with a coffee cup, getting in the way, and doing nothing to help the boys.

Thanks, Eammon. We're not "scouting" we are "creating memories". You and the youth will never forget that trip.

Hire the best and brightest camp staff you can find. This will mean paying them more than they can make by working 1/3 the hours at McDonalds. At staff week, tell them that the Scouts and Scouters are CUSTOMERS, and their evaluations and bonuses (yes, Bonuses!) will depend on how happy their customers are at the end of the week. Fire the "smile police" (those whose job it is to find a scout having fun and then finding a rule that says he can't). Have enough rules to ensure safety, but eliminate those whose only purpose is to aggravate people and encourage them to camp elsewhere next year. Have a program for adults as well...offer training during the week, and if someone with a special skill offers to help, welcome him/her warmly instead of "thanks, but WE are the staff and if we need you we'll let you know." Do not overlook the food. A 15 year old scout offered a single pancake and one sausage link for breakfast will NOT be happy. And be sure to offer adult friendly choices, for those whose scouting "rounded them out", such as salads. Do some research and get copies of other camp's program guides. Incorporate the best of each of them.

I feel this thread is coming unravelled. Darn it!

Thanks for the discussion, although it is slightly off track now. I saw one of my fellow Training Chairs from another District at the scout shop this morning, and she said that the new "draft policy" was discussed at the Commissioner's meeting as a "done deal". In this Council we have a high turnover of leaders due to military transfers. We are lucky to keep a leader for a year, due to deployments, much less their whole 3 year tour. We have a few SMs with 20-30 year tenure, but they are rare. The cub side is even worse. Most packs and dens change leadership every year. Our training stat hovers at around 30% and I don't know how possible it is to improve that, but we will be expected to do it anyhow. As Dave said, it's apparently local option. I also appreciate Bob's input from National...but I find it interesting that so many Councils thought of the same idea this year independently. As far as CO's role being usurped, I think most don't care. As someone else said, most are not involved in selecting leaders...they just sign the form. If there is going to be mandatory training for anyone, they should start with the CORs. It will be interesting to see how many Units we lose at the end of the year because untrained leaders get dropped from the rolls.