scoutldr

Girls are just as bad these days. Just go hang out at the local mall and keep your ears open. They hear it on TV constantly, and won't buy a CD unless it has a "Parental Advisory" label on it. Parents don't care. So if we are to make a difference, it's up to us. We tried the "quarter jar" since one of our ASMs is a merchant mariner, and raises "sailor's language" to an art form. He doesn't even realize he's doing it. Now, he just chucks a $20 bill in the jar on Friday night and says "There, that should cover me for the weekend."

Aye, FOG, there's the rub. We "safety geeks" don't go around thinking up ways to kill your fun. We go around trying to think of all the ways people can be stupid and then try to engineer the process so that they can't make that choice. As a former boss of mine once said, we have to educate the "defiantly ignorant." Everyone agrees that fireworks are not allowed in camp...why in the world would a black powder cannon be acceptable? We never had a cannon at my camp. I still had a good time and didn't grow up warped. OK, well I had a good time, anyway.

Well, I ignored the naysayers and sent a box of stuff anyway. Got a nice letter back from Barbara Green on official American Red Cross letterhead, thanking me for thinking of the young men and women who are sacrificing for our freedom. Well, OK, it was a form letter, addressed to "Dear Patriot". They must have had a good response which necessitated the use of a form letter. Kinda gave me a warm feeling anyway. Best money I've spent all year. Merry Christmas and God Bless America and our Troops overseas. Scoutldr (aka, Patriot)

Those citations sound like typical OSHA violations. The Council was cited because it is an employer and the camp staff are employees. They are covered by OSHA law. Volunteers and scouts are not. However, that does not relieve Councils from civil and criminal liability. As OSH (occupational safety and health) professionals, we are taught that there is no such thing as an "accident". There are only unsafe acts and unsafe conditions. Both are prevented by inspecting the environment, training, enforcement of rules, and, as a last resort, PPE (personal protective equipment). We also recognize that there is no such thing as "zero risk". However, with today's litigious parents and lawyers, we need to get as close to zero as we can. It always amazes me that the climbing ropes have their usage logged and recorded so that they can be replaced on schedule, but the camp 5-ton truck is allowed to be operated for 2 years without any brakes and 8 year old cub scouts are allowed to feed limbs into a chipper without eye or ear protection. If I were to put my "safety man" hat on, the camp would be shut down. The money is not there. The emphasis is on doing the minimum necessary to get the accreditation pennant.

THe council in which I serve charges $6 per course, or $10 for both NLE and CSLS if taken together. They are told to bring their own Leader books, but I am told we must cover Insurance(?), Council "administrative fee", training card, Trained strip, certificate, and handouts at 9 cents each (which I usually pay for myself at Kinko's). We never miss an opportunity to reach into the wallet of a volunteer. Thanks for explaining the situation so well. The logistics are hard, and my training team consists of me and one other, who is a newbie. Pre-registration is one of my pet peeves...people just do not do it...then the weekend before they are calling my house wanting special dispensation. Or they just "walk in" which means I then have to scramble to find them a seat, handouts, handle their money, etc. I have ONE TV/VCR...if I'm lucky. Power point projectors? Council has one, but they don't loan it out. Spare bulbs are over $100 each, so I don't blame them. One thing I plan to do is force the "Pack Trainer" issue. I will train the Pack Trainers, but then all CSLS will be done at the unit level. Of course, we will still offer it 1-2 times per year for new units. The original point of this thread was that the current curriculum is hard. Hard to present, and hard (and expensive) for volunteers to keep getting retrained each year of the CS program. I heard they were revising it again...which it sorely needs, and I would like to know which direction they are heading with it. PS: With regard to Fast Start...when I ask them in NLE if they have had FS training, I get the "deer in the headlights" look. It ain't being done. Should I send them home and tell them to come back when they have met the pre-requisites? *he asked, rhetorically* (This message has been edited by scoutldr)(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

ds said, "From a pure dollars and sense point of view, attending an out of council camp takes money away from your council and puts it in another council's coffers." That's true, but if you have OOC troops coming to your camp to replace them, who cares? The goal should be a two warm, paying bodies in every tent, every week. And the "warm" part is optional. It shouldn't matter what CSP they wear. As others say, there are 3 things that will help that..."Program, program and program."

In another post, someone referred to the current CS leader training curriculum, which requires retraining at every level of progression through the program. Leaders starting out in Tiger Cubs get trained as a Tiger Leader. Then the next year, they have to get retrained as a DL (and pay another fee). Then WL. Then CM or committee member (MC). There are specific training codes in ScoutNet for each course. My dilemma is that when a course is advertised by Council, it is simply "CS Leader Specific", so out of a random group of 5-10 scouters who sign up, I have a mix requiring 4-5 instructors...IF I present the training as it's designed. The District expects me to offer the training multiple times throughout the year, so offering the position segments separately would be a logistical nightmare what with printing flyers, reserving meeting rooms, etc. There seems to be a shortage of meeting rooms...most churches are overbooked, and the local schools require reservations months in advance. Forget about the Council Service Center, as its usually stacked to the rafters with popcorn and in use for other, "more important" meetings. I have also heard that a new training curriculum is on its way from National. Anyone got the inside scoop on this? How can I submit input?

It took me two seconds to recognize the operative term, "unlawful discrimination". Unless the Supreme Court reverses its decision, the BSA policy is, by definition, lawful and constitutional. And unless the city changes its policy regarding public accomodation, I see nothing changing.

I think the important thing is that every scout attend a long-term camp SOMEWHERE. Some councils charge an extra fee for out-of-council (OOC) troops, so it seems to me they make MORE money than if we go to our own camp. In a boy-led troop, if the PLC decides that the camp program is "lame", or if they simply don't want to go back to the same camp for the fifth year in a row, the adult leaders are obligated to help them do that. Most troops in my council rotate camps among the 4 or 5 that are within a half-day's drive. Our own camp often has more OOC campers in a given week than scouts from our own council. I make a point to speak to these OOC leaders and guage their experience at our camp vs. other camps. Surprisingly, ours rates very high in comparison. Each camp has different programs to offer and, in my opinion, the Scouting experience is enhanced by trying new things and seeing new places. I think Dave's comments were just a little unfair, blaming troops who go OOC for contributing to his dilemma, but I chalked them up to the emotion of his unfortunate circumstances. But let's focus on marketing a quality and varied program to ensure every tent is filled every week. Take a lesson from the major theme parks like Busch Gardens. They introduce and market a new thrill ride every year, to keep people coming back. Otherwise, it's "been there, done that, got a T-shirt", and we don't need to go back.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

What's a Unit Commissioner? In 14 years, I've never had one visit my Unit.

I don't know if I'd call it "micro-managing". I just figure the more names the scout has to work with, the better chance he will be able to make a connection without having to come back to the SM for a new name. If he is "assigned" a name, and the person turns him down, that can be discouraging. As I said in another post, most of the names on the district list are "Troop XX Only", so that doesn't leave much to work with anyway. I guess I don't see a problem with it either way.

BSA DECLARATION OF RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLE Excerpted: from Adult Registration Application B.S.A. No. 28-501K. The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is absolutely non-sectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. The Boy Scouts of America's policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership.

KS, What I meant was, we make the district list available to the Scout. It is up to him to make a successful connection using that resource. We do not "assign" him a counselor.

One of the purposes of the MB program is to teach the Scout initiative. He has to find the counselor, call him/her and make an appointment and then work with him. It is also to encourage the scout confidence in reaching out and meeting new people. If Billy's mom, a member of the troop committee, is the counselor for 8 MB, that's seven new people the scout won't get to meet. A MB is supposed to be something the scout earns on his own...not something that is spoon-fed to him at a troop meeting.

Perhaps to accomodate the older crowd and camp staff before they split for college? Ours is always the third weekend in October. Fall camporee is the second weekend. Then those of us with wives catch it for being gone two weekends in a row. Ya can't win. >>>|--WWW--|>

There are usually "vintage" issues available on eBay. Naturally, the older, the more expensive, and those with Rockwell covers go for as high as $10 each. Out of almost 200 purchases, I have never had a bad experience.

>>I've seen councils not advertise, except by word of mouth to those "in the know" for coveted positions.

A properly uniformed Scout at a Scout function is always appropriate.

One of my favorites from Scouting magazine... An American Scouter was in England on business when he found himself with some extra time. He decided to try to visit Gilwell Park and Brownsea Island, the birthplace of Scouting. Finding the local car rental dealer, he was disappointed to learn that they had no more cars to rent. Listening to the Scouter's plight, the rental agent reached in his pocket and handed over a set of keys. "What is this?" the Scouter asked. "Take my personal auto," said the agent. "I am a Scouter too. I know you are trustworthy and will return it in good shape. Enjoy your visit, mate."

I have heard the same thing done with a Cub Pack. A charter was issued, now it's our problem to make sure they have leaders, training, etc. My response is that a charter should not be issued until everything is in place to make sure the unit has a fighting chance of survival. FOG, I look at it this way. The "Scout Meeting" begins at 7 pm and ends at 8:30 pm. What they do before and after those times is their parent's problem, not mine. Same is true for a camping trip...when they "check in" at the meeting place, they become my responsibility, not before.

Find out when your District Roundtable is for Cub Scout leaders and go to it. The January Roundtable should be all about B&G, which usually happens in February. Dens have been making their own table decorations for decades. That's how it's done. As a CM for 6 yrs, we even had a contest with prizes...every den won something.

As a young Cub in the early 60's we had to take an oath to "be square". We thought it was a good thing.

You can wear a temporary patch until you die. Unless you are immortal, it's still "temporary".

Red Cross Needs Assistance for Wounded Soldiers The American Red Cross at Walter Reed Army Medical Center is looking for incidentals/comfort items for sick and wounded Armed Forces Personnel now recuperating at the hospital. When someone is stationed in Iraq, Afghanistan or elsewhere and is wounded or falls ill, they are immediately evacuated, and it can take weeks for their personal effects to catch up with them. The Red Cross is asking for donations of any of the following: - telephone cards of at least 30 minutes - rolling luggage (small), totes, carry-ons - individually wrapped snacks - magazines - notepads, pens - playing cards and games - sweat pants and shirts (all sizes) All items should be addressed to: ATTN: Barbara Green, American Red Cross Walter Reed Army Medical Center 6900 Georgia Ave, N.W., Washington, DC 20307-5001. Checks should be made out to the American Red Cross. For more information, call (202) 782-2080 or e-mail Barbara.Green.1@AMEDD.army.mil. For more on the Red Cross, see http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourceFileView?file=Active_Family_Red_Cross.htm

I received my Eagle as an Explorer in 1970. I know the slogan predates that by several years, as I was still in a Scout troop. I will stand by 67-68 as being pretty accurate. Your father may have obtained it later than that.