qwazse

I honestly have not heard of anyone turning down any young adult solely on the basis of his/her age. No offense to the Mrs., Eng 61, but you all sound a little paranoid. Trust, but verify. In that order. That said, if the SM feels adult:youth ratio is a little top-heavy, he may not feel like taking on another ASM, so signing up newcomers to town doesn't always need to be a given.

TT, just keep in mind that getting rid of the trouble maker doesn't get rid of the trouble. In your case the trouble is a boy who is picking up a negative vibe from his parents and using it as an excuse to "coast." So, as much as it will be a thorn in your side, you're stuck "coaching" this dad to be positive with his son wherever he lands. That includes encouraging the boy to step up and do his best in his current youth-led unit until the day he transfers to another. Waffles are better with butter or syrup.

Being an ASM, I expect to: Pay my own dues. Get trained on my own dime. Maintain certifications in First Aid, CPR, BSA Guard (council lost the paperwork on that one, I can't find the card, so I may be stuck). Maintain a vintage uniform (thus teaching the boys thrifty and clean at the same time). Attend troop meetings. Attend committee meetings as time allows. Inform and apologize when I can't make one. Offer my opinion to the CC only when asked. Communicate with the SM regularly. Support his views. Coach him where he needs it. Fill in for him when he's not available. (To one of your points, Moose, all of our over-21 ASM's are of a caliber that they can lead an activity if they want to, no SM required.) Be available for activities. Especially ones where my skills would help. Keep a healthy distance away from my son's advancement. (Mom can prod him.) Be the advisor for our venturing crew. (It was either gonna be me or another more qualified ASM. Guess I got the "short" straw. 'Been lovin' it ever since.) I'm sure there are other things, but this is what I expect from myself and other ASM's. I don't know how important it is that I "pay my own dime". But I write it off as charitable contributions anyway. Tried the ASM-to-patrol thing. Big waste of time.

This is one reason why I'm no fan of NSP's. They can easily become NSC (New Scout Cliques). But, even with crossovers fed directly into existing patrols, you can experience these kinds of splits. I am much more in favor of splinter groups starting their own troops rather than giving some other SM a new set of headaches. It gives the adults a chance to learn and grow and discover "no matter where you go, there you are."

Wow. Where have I heard this before? Here's a few suggestions to make sure you avoid that slimy feeling. Let the SM know he might get an "influx". Explain the situation as you understand it, and ask him if you could touch base in a few months to see if he hears something that your troop may need to address. Dismiss boys from POR's based on performance only. If one of these boys has been doing his job, but wants to try out the other troop because his buddy just relocated there, make note of his time served and encourage the new SM to line up a similar position for the lad. Make sure your even-handed about the POR's and review every boy in a position regardless of his intent to leave the troop. If a camporee is not in your future, suggest to your SPL a joint outing with the other unit. Maybe one where you all share the same campground but your boys do their thing during the day while the other troop does theirs. Camp at a reasonable distance, but plan for an evening campfire together. Ask the boys leaving if they would be willing to donate uniform parts (#s, neckers) specific to your troop so that new boys who join could use them. Yes, you will have to address the parents who remain. Let them know if they want a thorough explanation, come to the next committee meeting. Tell them you really appreciate seeing their boys every week, and would appreciate continuing to do so. Explain that you want their boys to maintain goodwill to the other boys so that the scout spirit will be alive in both troops. You're probably going to loose a committee position or two, so have the CC announce the vacant positions. Have the CC make solid plans for school recruitment, because those dozen boys potentially mean 12 less boys invited to your troop.

Well, technically (see other threads fretting about internal revenue, etc...), the balance is not the scout's. It's the troop's. You have only allocated certain amounts from fundraisers for the scout to use so that he can be properly equipped for the good of the troop. That said, I agree with E92. It's a big deal. Some boys are embarrassed that they have money at their disposal (or more properly, have stewardship over troop funds) when others do not. Other boys who have less (or none) might feel defeated by those who do. Having online balances that anyone can browse allows for both categories of unnecessary frustration. Anyway, even if scouts don't have a positive balance, they will probably check the scout account option anyway. (It defines our culture.) I would make payment and sign-up a two step process. The treasure contacts the boy about payment options after he signs up and lets the boy know his options based on the allocation in his account.

That's pre-judging the boy. (Sorry any TG types reading this, I tend to stick with anatomical-at-birth definitions.) It's also not based on world-wide experience of co-ed movements. (Including girls on football teams, etc ...) Most teen pregnancies are a result of associations outside the organization. Of course, most co-ed orgs don't publish their experiences with TG children, but I don't think the risk of unwanted pregnancy among group members is elevated because of them. So, not looking at the FB page, and given the unlikely outcome (here's hoping), I'd say "Yeah, funny."

RW - in my experience, it will only help if you use them as potential conversation starters: "And you could earn this knot if you'd just do ___". They might say "I don't care about your stinkin' knots." But at least you'll have put out what you would like to see from your adults in terms of action. If they're like me, they'd wind up doing what you want, and refuse the knot! I think knots are a nuisance. But, if you're going to recognize me anyway, I'd rather a knot than a plaque or a mug.

83EagleI just assumed the Bad Idea girl was a a venture scout. For future enlightenment, it's "venturer". And, from time to time, one may have dress code issues. I usually pawn those off on my female adult leaders. Maybe I can just have my crew president propose a by-law "No dressing like the models on the Scouter network."

Having had hours of my time wasted by "sweep-under-ther-rug" types, I lean toward calling HQ. Of course having talked with several adults, I have gained some idea of what's acceptable (sharing a bunk-house with another adult and 20 other cubs) and what's not (grooming behavior toward a particular boy), and realize the SE has gained the same common sense. If you think only a BSA reg is violated, call your council SE and ask for advise. If you think a youth was actually harmed, report to the authorities first, then call the SE. Either way, this is not a comfortable situation for an upright person being accused. But the alternative (letting things fester in a rumor mill) is far worse. That's my simple-minded interpretation of the G2SS. Two more thoughts: 1. We still have years until we will know if the policy changes over the past 20 years have made a dent in these horrendous behaviors. 2. As awful as the BSA's history may seem, I've learned that these same ways of handling criminal behavior show up in other clubs, including public schools. Anybody thinking that their kid is somehow "safer" from predators if you keep him/her away from large youth movements is delusional.

RW, pursue what you can for your adults. The worse that can happen is council will say "no" to a particular award, but they may direct you to other ways of recognizing them. Some could care less about awards and knots. The best thing about the one I got was a note my daughter and her friend composed listing the reasons I should be nominated for it! So, SP's suggestion about letting the boys be part of giving the award is really significant.

We're an average size troop, so we have a little margin when it comes to food ... less when it comes to transportation. But usually there's a boy who cancels during the week, so we can usually fit a latecomer. Our problem comes because sometimes only a few can make it to an event. We have canceled events because not enough boys signed up the Monday before departure. When someone says "Oh, I was meaning to sign up ..." and they realize their procrastination ruined it for a couple of other boys, that solves that behavior. For crew events, I'm more willing to pull things together for a kid at the last minute. But, this fall we had a council camporee, space was tight, and a venturer called one day after the reservation deadline. I tried to make some calls, it was out of my hands, he couldn't go.

It's been a while, but yes keep it simple for cubs. Mountain pies: If several families have pie irons (we had 3 and the CM had 6) the boys could make their own pizza's and then cherry or apple pies. You needed adult supervision of the hot irons and making sure kids washed hands before the prepped food. It took a couple of rounds before everyone was feed, but everyone had fun and when you weren't cooking you could run around. Soup is also a good option. Each den makes a different type. Keeping track of cups and spoons is a hassle. It is getting tough to do it all on $10 a weekend, but let parents who are planning know that's your goal.

One of the advantages of NOT having adults in uniform at EBOR's may be suppression of the "I'm a super scouter" attitude. A boy might have a perfectly solid understanding of the rules. The same reply might come off as courteous and helpful if he was explaining it to a bunch of suit-and-ties, but might come off as challenging (e.g. requiring a "with all due respect, sir/madame") if said in front of six unis with four rows of knots each!

Acco, I think a lot of boys feel the same way. I know one star scout who didn't count the hours he did music for church, even though every week it involved an hour learning the tunes, and an hour rehearsal. (Turned out he didn't have to, some adult neglected transfer hours he helped on Eagle projects into that software thingy.) I'm not entirely sure he thought it through, but most of us figure some things are just duty to God, and in our hearts don't want it to be counted as anything by anyone else. Growing up, I sure would have scoffed at any help I gave to a church (mine or some other) as service hours. On the other hand, if a boy volunteered to do a project for a clergyman (his or someone else's) and wanted it to count for service hours, I'd let him. Some of this is just an exercise in giving the boy a chance to define himself. I encourage them to write down their hours in their handbook. It may inspire his kids someday when he pulls that book out of the attic.

Yep, the stuff of peoples lives can just drag you down. On several occasions, a divorced parent has asked me, "What would you do in my situation?" I've had to say, "You two need to decide how you're gonna co-parent. The sooner you do, the better for all parties involved." But, I would never say that without one of the parents opening the conversation. Sadly for the kid, like Eng pointed out, there's nothing you can do. You can tell them that they have a fine son, and you'd love to see him around, but you'll understand if that's just not possible. Or you could not tell them anything because they probably know all that. The only thing that can help sort these things out is time and no small amount of prayer.

Beav, I don't think it's a valid assumption that None of those organizations are giving him a free-will recognition, the way a lifesaving award might be. They each have requirements of service for the status conferred. None stipulate "for the sole purposes of recognition by this organization" is the community service to be performed. I look at it this way: scout performs six hours community service the weekend after earning star rank. Should the SM recognize it for rank advancement? Yes. Should the NHS recognize it? Yes. Should the FFA recognize it? Yes. Should his church recognize it? Yes. Should we shower any kid with honor from any and every direction for his hard work, yes. Should the last be first; and the first, last? (Oops. Tangent. ) Now, I do believe in full disclosure. The honorable thing for the scout to do is to inform each organization he applies to that the hours served were also counted in applications to other organizations. E.g., for NHS: "these hours were recognized in my advancement in scouts." for FFA: "these hours were recognized in my advancement in scouts and induction into NHS." etc ... And, if one of these groups asks for something distinct, he can cheerfully offer it. Chances are, he has served more than the requisite number of hours. At least that's been the experience for most kids I know. I want a kid to think that every little bit of service can mean something to a lot of people. It seems to me that's a better motivation for him to serve than tallying X hours for this and X hours for that.

resq, I was thinking of cutting up a sleeping pad, then I saw that my camp towel folded several times was the length of the kid's arm! Thanks for the SAM splint suggestion. Thanks for the ideas guys! I'm glad we weren't too far off the mark in terms of equipment. I think what hurt us was the preparedness factor. All of the boys present learned "inside the box" first aid. (The trained boys who were on Philmont contingents graduated last year, leaving us a little inexperienced.) This made it hard for them to help figure out what would work best. The SM and I are thinking of a few first-aid competitions to change that.

Yep. Talk. Don't write. Good luck. Call the dad as well. Just let him know you miss seeing him around, and as a First-Class scout he has a lot to offer your boys (or any group of youth wherever he goes). If the mom is sticking around, I would suggest that she help on the committee and spend time with parents of cross-overs encouraging them to fundraise, come to camp, etc ... Needless to say, you don't want to be anybody's therapist! If you have a divorced mom on your committee, she might be able to listen to gory details. But your focus is on a find scout who should be finding his own as a leader in the troop.

Gunny, In the community garden our scout set up as part of his Eagle project the answer would be "no." The food is grown to provide fresh vegetables for the food bank. Since we they can't predict who will be out of a job next month, they can't guarantee a surplus for the folks who worked the garden but whose families are doing OK financially. (Although, I think in the past couple years there was enough to go 'round.) That said, I get your point. POR's overlapping is a different issue. When that happens, I want the boy to do both well or give one up. (Just read the riot act to my VP Program/VP Admin whose troop elected him SPL! Looks like the kid's gonna try to step up, but he knows we'll evaluate in a month.) I don't mind a kid being a PL/Bugler for four months. As far as I'm concerned he's one person with one position of responsibility that involves two merged tasks. Then again, if a music teacher gives him some kind of recognition for the fact that he not only performs duties for his troop, I'm not gonna go to the kid and say "Sorry, it's been nice to hear your rendition of taps at all our activities. But now that I find out you've got an award from the school for it, I gotta take away your bugler patch!" Let me re-emphasize: one service hour under the banner of scouting should be recognized in as many other areas of a boy's life as possible.

An SM might ... talk about an honorable fellow still does his duty to God and puts in his hour in church on Sunday. No matter how much work he did for client X, an honorable fellow wouldn't charge that to client Y. And if the kid says to SM Beav, "Well sir, I heard on Sunday that God reaps where he does not sow and expects me to do the same with my talents!" Anybody know if there's a medal for that! Seriously, for our school's National Honor Society, the point of the juniors reporting their service hours is so that the seniors can write up an introduction that recognizes the candidate's well rounded nature. I think the school graduation requirement is similar. They want the kids to have *something* that recognizes their initiative outside the classroom. They do not want it to be exclusively for fulfilling school requirements. No, it doesn't get back the value 'Fish's hard earned tax $$'s, but that's a different topic.

This is one of those that doesn't come up until after you need it. The standard first aid kit for backpacking is pretty adequate, except ... Materials for splints! I wasted a good half-hour foraging for a decent piece of dry wood to form a splint for a kid with a sprained wrist. (We had just hiked in to an isolated site. It was getting dark fast. No bleeding or bruising to justify a panic. And in my experience, even when X-rayed, you never know if there's a break until you repeat the exam in a day or two.) And after all the fussing we realized that a camp towel folded and rolled around the little gomper's arm and anchored with bungees did the trick and kept his hand warm at the same time. I was thinking that kit boxes could be long and skinny, and the lid could hold some cardboard that be used for a splint if needed. What do you all recommend?

I'm not talking about last-minute boards either. (Although I get the impression that most of those would be last minute communications. Or maybe last minute situations at work or home that put grabbing the uni at the bottom of the list.) The bottom line: since uniforming for an EBOR it is not required in any documentation, wearing other dress more representative of your role outside of scouting is allowed. A district advancement chair may set the tone by having his volunteers dress in uniform if they are representing, he may answer affirmative or negative if a committee chair calls and asks about wearing uniform, or he may ask his people to look professional as in business formal or Sunday-go-to-meeting. Same with a scout who shows up in a suit and tie. Sometimes it's just fine to say, "'round here, we'd like it this way." The district has that latitude. And honestly, I think it should stay that way. Scouts should have varied experiences in their EBORs, and they should feel free to compare notes and consider their likes/dislikes. One day it may come in handy when they get the call, "We have this Eagle candidate ... would you be free to sit on his board?"

It's easy to have opinions. The money is in proving them right. Is there anything in the "rule book" regarding uniform dress for adults at EBORs? Gee it's nice when adults "tan it up", but if that's not the culture in your district, I'm not seeing the problem. Either way, it's how you treat our boys that's important.

The real problem here is when you ask questions from a point of bias, you miss out on important things like: "What's this boy and his troop like?" "Are other boys also moving along as quickly?" "What kind of program can we provide for him and his buddies?" "Is this a kid who can be challenged to lead at a district level?"